• Sherlock Holmes . . . allusions to classical texts

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 15 16:23:21 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    i'd think that... a big reason why T.S. Eliot or Orwell (?) or Nabokov
    liked Sherlock Holmes was...

    how the text seemed peppered with
    allusions to classical texts....

    What's a good example of this?

    ______________________

    'There, but for the grace of God, goes Sherlock Holmes.'"


    You may remember the old
    Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub,
    and danger also for whoso snatches a delusion from a woman.'

    There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of
    the world."




    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, might be named after a
    character from Molière's play "Le Misanthrope" ???



    Jabez Wilson: The name "Jabez" comes from the Old Testament (1
    Chronicles 4:35).

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 16 06:46:37 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    Le 16/06/2024 à 00:23, HenHanna a écrit :

    i'd think that...  a big reason why T.S. Eliot or Orwell (?) or Nabokov liked Sherlock Holmes was...

                          how the text seemed peppered with
                             allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that? It seems an unusual reason for liking the
    Holmes stories - a bit like liking them for Mrs Hudson's cooking.

    What's a good example of this? [...]

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  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Hibou on Sun Jun 16 01:29:13 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    On 6/15/2024 10:46 PM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 16/06/2024 à 00:23, HenHanna a écrit :

    i'd think that...  a big reason why T.S. Eliot or Orwell (?) or
    Nabokov liked Sherlock Holmes was...

                           how the text seemed peppered with
                              allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that? It seems an unusual reason for liking the
    Holmes stories - a bit like liking them for Mrs Hudson's cooking.

    What's a good example of this? [...]


    1. SH stories are full of them.

    2. T.S.Eliot used [grimpen] (lowercase) in his famous poem

    3. Joyce ..........



    ______________________

    'There, but for the grace of God, goes Sherlock Holmes.'"


    You may remember the old
    Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub,
    and danger also for whoso snatches a delusion from a woman.'

    There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of
    the world."




    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, might be named after a
    character from Molière's play "Le Misanthrope" ???



    Jabez Wilson: The name "Jabez" comes from the Old Testament (1
    Chronicles 4:35).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 16 10:03:41 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    Le 16/06/2024 à 09:29, HenHanna a écrit :
    On 6/15/2024 10:46 PM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 16/06/2024 à 00:23, HenHanna a écrit :

    i'd think that...  a big reason why T.S. Eliot or Orwell (?) or
    Nabokov liked Sherlock Holmes was...

                           how the text seemed peppered with
                              allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that? It seems an unusual reason for liking the
    Holmes stories - a bit like liking them for Mrs Hudson's cooking.

    What's a good example of this? [...]


    1. SH stories are full of them.

    2. T.S.Eliot used  [grimpen] (lowercase) in his famous poem

    3. Joyce ..........

    ______________________

     'There, but for the grace of God, goes Sherlock Holmes.'"


     You may remember the old
         Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub,
         and danger also for whoso snatches a delusion from a woman.'

    There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of
    the world."

    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, might be named after a character from Molière's play "Le Misanthrope" ???

    Jabez Wilson: The name "Jabez" comes from the Old Testament (1
    Chronicles 4:35).

    Well, all right, and I acknowledge that there is pleasure in recognising allusions - but is there an unusual number of them in SH? In more
    Christian days, it was common for people to be given Biblical Christian
    names (my own first name features in the New Testament), and Biblical
    and other phrases would routinely crop up in educated people's dialogue
    (There but for the grace of God etc.).

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  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Hibou on Sun Jun 16 03:03:30 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    On 6/16/2024 2:03 AM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 16/06/2024 à 09:29, HenHanna a écrit :
    On 6/15/2024 10:46 PM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 16/06/2024 à 00:23, HenHanna a écrit :

    i'd think that...  a big reason why T.S. Eliot or Orwell (?) or
    Nabokov liked Sherlock Holmes was...

                           how the text seemed peppered with
                              allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that? It seems an unusual reason for liking the
    Holmes stories - a bit like liking them for Mrs Hudson's cooking.

    What's a good example of this? [...]


    1. SH stories are full of them.

    2. T.S.Eliot used  [grimpen] (lowercase) in his famous poem

    3. Joyce ..........

    ______________________

      'There, but for the grace of God, goes Sherlock Holmes.'"


      You may remember the old
          Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub,
          and danger also for whoso snatches a delusion from a woman.'

    There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of
    the world."

    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, might be named after a
    character from Molière's play "Le Misanthrope" ???

    Jabez Wilson: The name "Jabez" comes from the Old Testament (1
    Chronicles 4:35).

    Well, all right, and I acknowledge that there is pleasure in recognising allusions - but is there an unusual number of them in SH? In more
    Christian days, it was common for people to be given Biblical Christian
    names (my own first name features in the New Testament), and Biblical
    and other phrases would routinely crop up in educated people's dialogue (There but for the grace of God etc.).



    how the text seemed peppered with
    allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that?



    the sections on Homer, Frankenstein, Socrates... are esp. good.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rosenberg_(writer)



    [Naked is the Best Disguise]

    Published in 1974, this book relates the Sherlock Holmes stories in
    surprising ways to Nietzsche, Oscar Wilde, Dionysus, Christ, Catullus,
    John Bunyan, Robert Browning, Boccaccio, Napoleon, Racine, Frankenstein, Flaubert, George Sand, Socrates, Poe, General Charles George Gordon,
    Melville, Joyce's Ulysses, T. S. Eliot, and many others.

    Rosenberg claimed that Doyle left open clues to his most hidden
    thoughts. Rosenberg also describes his discovery of the Doyle Syndrome.

    This repetitive narrative sequence reveals to him some deep
    characteristics of the author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
    ........................

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 16 18:52:35 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    Le 16/06/2024 à 11:03, HenHanna a écrit :
    On 6/15/2024 10:46 PM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 16/06/2024 à 00:23, HenHanna a écrit :

                            how the text seemed peppered with
                               allusions to classical texts....

    What's the source for that?

    the sections on   Homer, Frankenstein,  Socrates... are esp. good.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rosenberg_(writer)

             [Naked is the Best Disguise]

    Published in 1974, this book relates the Sherlock Holmes stories in surprising ways to Nietzsche, Oscar Wilde, Dionysus, Christ, Catullus,
    John Bunyan, Robert Browning, Boccaccio, Napoleon, Racine, Frankenstein, Flaubert, George Sand, Socrates, Poe, General Charles George Gordon, Melville, Joyce's Ulysses, T. S. Eliot, and many others.

    Rosenberg claimed that Doyle left open clues to his most hidden
    thoughts. Rosenberg also describes his discovery of the Doyle Syndrome.

    This repetitive narrative sequence reveals to him some deep
    characteristics of the author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. ........................

    I don't think I'll surprise you if I say I'm sceptical. There's not much
    room left in there for Doyle himself. Still, I suppose, when one has
    eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be
    the truth.

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