XPost: alt.usage.english, soc.culture.irish

so far... i'm getting the sense that
Bog Latin (in Ireland) comes in (at least) 2 forms :


1. looks much like real Latin, with some humorous vocab
-- the kind used by James Joyce
in his letters to friends


2. rougher and slangy... (like Shelta?)

e.g. liber means "sea" ------ used in FW (Finnegans Wake)
sabar means "eye"


------ just these 2 samples (liber, sabar) suggest that...
(Vocab -wise)
There's no overlap between the 2 forms (of Bog Latin)

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XPost: alt.usage.english, soc.culture.irish

On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:34:17 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

so far... i'm getting the sense that
Bog Latin (in Ireland) comes in (at least) 2 forms :

1. looks much like real Latin, with some humorous vocab
-- the kind used by James Joyce
in his letters to friends

2. rougher and slangy... (like Shelta?)

e.g. liber means "sea" ------ used in FW (Finnegans Wake)
sabar means "eye"

------ just these 2 samples (liber, sabar) suggest that...
(Vocab -wise)
There's no overlap between the 2 forms (of Bog Latin)

This book really uses a semicolon (;) where we'd use a colon
(:) after the Headword.


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:English_as_we_speak_it_in_Ireland_-_Joyce.djvu/233

Bog-Latin; bad incorrect Latin; Latin that had been learned in the
hedge schools among the bogs. This derisive and reproachful epithet was
given in bad old times by pupils and others of the favoured, legal, and
endowed schools, sometimes with reason,

but oftener very unjustly. For those bog or hedge schools sent out
numbers of scholarly men, who afterwards entered the church or lay
professions. (See p. 151.)

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XPost: alt.usage.english, soc.culture.irish

On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 19:40:04 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:34:17 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

so far... i'm getting the sense that
Bog Latin (in Ireland) comes in (at least) 2 forms :


1. looks much like real Latin, with some humorous vocab
-- the kind used by James Joyce
in his letters to friends


2. rougher and slangy... (like Shelta?)

e.g. liber means "sea" ------ used in FW (Finnegans Wake)
sabar means "eye"


------ just these 2 samples (liber, sabar) suggest that...
(Vocab -wise)
There's no overlap between the 2 forms (of Bog Latin)

This book really uses a semicolon (;) where we'd use a colon
(:) after the Headword.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:English_as_we_speak_it_in_Ireland_-_Joyce.djvu/233

Bog-Latin; bad incorrect Latin; Latin that had been learned in the
hedge schools among the bogs. This derisive and reproachful epithet was
given in bad old times by pupils and others of the favoured, legal, and endowed schools, sometimes with reason,

but oftener very unjustly. For those bog or hedge schools sent out
numbers of scholarly men, who afterwards entered the church or lay professions. (See p. 151.)

In fir tar is,
In oak none is,
In mud ells are,
In clay none are.
Goat eat ivy;
Mare eat oats.

A bit of schoolboy Latin that dates back to Agincourt.

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XPost: alt.usage.english, soc.culture.irish

On 9/7/2024 1:45 PM, LionelEdwards wrote:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 19:40:04 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:34:17 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

      so far...  i'm getting the sense that
                Bog Latin (in Ireland)  comes in (at least)  2  forms :


1.  looks much like  real Latin, with some humorous vocab
                                   -- the kind used by James Joyce
                                        in his letters to friends


2.  rougher and slangy...  (like Shelta?)

       e.g.     liber  means  "sea"  ------ used in FW (Finnegans Wake)
                sabar  means  "eye"


------  just  these 2 samples (liber, sabar)   suggest that...
                  (Vocab -wise)
                  There's no overlap between the 2 forms (of Bog Latin)

        This book really uses  a semicolon (;)  where we'd use a colon
(:)  after the Headword.


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/
Page:English_as_we_speak_it_in_Ireland_-_Joyce.djvu/233

Bog-Latin;    bad incorrect Latin; Latin that had been learned in the
hedge schools among the bogs. This derisive and reproachful epithet was
given in bad old times by pupils and others of the favoured, legal, and
endowed schools, sometimes with reason,

but oftener very unjustly. For those bog or hedge schools sent out
numbers of scholarly men, who afterwards entered the church or lay
professions. (See p. 151.)

In fir tar is,
In oak none is,
In mud ells are,
In clay none are.
Goat eat ivy;
Mare eat oats.

A bit of schoolboy Latin that dates back to Agincourt.

thanks! Hmmmm, I guess it sounds sort of like “Infertaris, in
hoc nonis,” aut similia,
but after that it doesn’t sound Latinate to me.

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