Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that.
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates it as "Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word.
My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination.
in Japanese, 野分, 野分, のわ (or Nowake) means that.
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing blast
of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 11:16:40 +0000, Ross Clark wrote:
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates it as >> "Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word.
My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and
various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination.
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that. >>>
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing blast >> of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and
(Etym.) it is so-named because The field-grass (野の草) gets Separated.
日本では、古くは野の草を吹いて分けるところから、野分（のわき、のわけ）と
いい、11世紀初頭の『枕草子』『源氏物語』などにもその表現を見ることが出来
る。
日本を含む北西太平洋・アジアでは台風またはタイフーン(typhoon)と呼ばれて
いる現象は、アメリカなどの北中米ではハリケーン(hurricane)、その他の地域
ではサイクロン(cyclone)と呼ばれています。 そのどれもが熱帯低気圧の構造を持っているという意味では、これらは地域を問
わず同一の気象現象に分類できます。
--------- it says... (typhoon) (hurricane) (cyclone)
belong to the same Category.
On 2024-09-12, HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that.
I suspect the context is the title of one of the parts of Genji Monogatari where it was translated as ‘the typhoon’ into English.
On the surface the word looks like a Japanese coining; like a literal ‘field-splitting [wind]’. And the etymology given by Digital Daijisen is:
《野の草を風が強く吹き分ける意》
Why should it mean anything in Chinese? Perhaps it might appear for the same
reason Google Translate went with “nowaki” in English, ie. as an untranslated
foreign term.
On 13/09/2024 7:51 a.m., HenHanna wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 11:16:40 +0000, Ross Clark wrote:
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates it as >>> "Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word.
My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and >>> various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination.
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that. >>>>
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing blast >>> of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and >>
(Etym.) it is so-named because The field-grass (野の草) gets
Separated.
日本では、古くは野の草を吹いて分けるところから、野分（のわき、のわけ）
と いい、11世紀初頭の『枕草子』『源氏物語』などにもその表現を見ること
が出来 る。
Possible, but could be folk etymology.
日本を含む北西太平洋・アジアでは台風またはタイフーン(typhoon)と呼ばれ
て いる現象は、アメリカなどの北中米ではハリケーン(hurricane)、その他の
地域 ではサイクロン(cyclone)と呼ばれています。
そのどれもが熱帯低気圧の構造を持っているという意味では、これらは地域を
問 わず同一の気象現象に分類できます。
--------- it says... (typhoon) (hurricane) (cyclone)
belong to the same Category.
Yes, they are different regional words for the same thing. It says
nothing about "nowaki".
On 9/12/2024 11:12 AM, mwgamera wrote:
On 2024-09-12, HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that.
I suspect the context is the title of one of the parts of Genji
Monogatari
where it was translated as ‘the typhoon’ into English.
On the surface the word looks like a Japanese coining; like a literal
‘field-splitting [wind]’. And the etymology given by Digital Daijisen is:
《野の草を風が強く吹き分ける意》
Why should it mean anything in Chinese? Perhaps it might appear for
the same
reason Google Translate went with “nowaki” in English, ie. as an
untranslated
foreign term.
野分 · late autumn (fall) windstorm in the countryside; typhoon, esp. one that blows from the 210th to the 220th day of the year
On 9/12/2024 6:17 PM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 13/09/2024 7:51 a.m., HenHanna wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 11:16:40 +0000, Ross Clark wrote:
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates it as >>>> "Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word.
My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and >>>> various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination.
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that. >>>>>
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing
blast
of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' and >>>
(Etym.) it is so-named because The field-grass (野の草) gets
Separated.
日本では、古くは野の草を吹いて分けるところから、野分（のわき、のわ
け） と いい、11世紀初頭の『枕草子』『源氏物語』などにもその表現を見
ること が出来 る。
Possible, but could be folk etymology.
----------- Do you have a better idea , or a hunch?
日本を含む北西太平洋・アジアでは台風またはタイフーン(typhoon)と呼ばれ
て いる現象は、アメリカなどの北中米ではハリケーン(hurricane)、その他
の 地域 ではサイクロン(cyclone)と呼ばれています。
そのどれもが熱帯低気圧の構造を持っているという意味では、これらは地域
を 問 わず同一の気象現象に分類できます。
--------- it says... (typhoon) (hurricane) (cyclone)
belong to the same Category.
Yes, they are different regional words for the same thing. It says
nothing about "nowaki".
(Jp) Nowake is a (typhoon) (hurricane) (cyclone) --- possibly small-scale
On 13/09/2024 2:15 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
On 9/12/2024 6:17 PM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 13/09/2024 7:51 a.m., HenHanna wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 11:16:40 +0000, Ross Clark wrote:
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ?
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates it as
"Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word. >>>>> My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' >>>>> and
various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination. >>>>>
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that.
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing >>>>> blast
of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part; point' >>>>> and
(Etym.) it is so-named because The field-grass (野の草) gets >>>> Separated.
日本では、古くは野の草を吹いて分けるところから、野分（のわき、のわ
け） と いい、11世紀初頭の『枕草子』『源氏物語』などにもその表現を見
ること が出来 る。
Possible, but could be folk etymology.
----------- Do you have a better idea , or a hunch?
The use of the character 分 definitely suggests a connection to 分ける wakeru 'divide, separate'. But the form as given in the dictionary is
nowaki. The writer of the above gives another form, nowake. But I don't
know whether this is an attested variant, or a purely hypothetical
earlier form from which nowaki might have been derived. I could equally
well see the -waki as derived from waku 'boil, seeth, be in an uproar'.
On 9/13/2024 4:08 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 13/09/2024 2:15 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
On 9/12/2024 6:17 PM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 13/09/2024 7:51 a.m., HenHanna wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 11:16:40 +0000, Ross Clark wrote:
On 12/09/2024 6:53 p.m., HenHanna wrote:
Google Translate gives a reading yē fēn for 野分, but translates >>>>>> it as
Does 野分 in Chinese mean 颱風 (台風, Typhoon) ? >>>>>>
"Nowaki". Which is very odd because "Nowaki" is not an English word. >>>>>> My small Ch-Eng dictionary does not seem to have yē fēn in it.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part;
point' and
various other things. Not much help if we can't find the combination. >>>>>>
in Japanese, 野分き, 野分, のわき (or Nowake) means that.
Small Jp-Eng dictionary has nowaki 野分 'a wintry blast; a searing >>>>>> blast
of late autumn'.
So I don't think either of these is a synonym of 台風.
野 means something like 'wild'. 分 can mean 'separate; part;
point' and
(Etym.) it is so-named because The field-grass (野の草) gets >>>>> Separated.
日本では、古くは野の草を吹いて分けるところから、野分（のわき、のわ
け） と いい、11世紀初頭の『枕草子』『源氏物語』などにもその表現を
見 ること が出来 る。
Possible, but could be folk etymology.
----------- Do you have a better idea , or a hunch?
The use of the character 分 definitely suggests a connection to 分ける >> wakeru 'divide, separate'. But the form as given in the dictionary is
nowaki. The writer of the above gives another form, nowake. But I
don't know whether this is an attested variant, or a purely
hypothetical earlier form from which nowaki might have been derived. I
could equally well see the -waki as derived from waku 'boil, seeth, be
in an uproar'.
----------- it's not related to Boiling (as you can see below)
i think .... Nowaki is the older reading than Nowake
in the last 100 years, Nowake is more common
https://dictionary.sanseido-publ.co.jp/column/kisetsu03
季節のことば
の わき 【野分】
筆者: 三省堂編修所 2007年9月3日
どういう意味？
「二百十日」（バックナンバー8/31）でも書きましたが、『大辞林 第三版』に
は「〔野の草を吹き分ける風、の意〕①二百十日、二百二十日前後に吹く暴風。
台風。あるいはその余波の風。また、秋から初冬にかけて吹く強い風。のわけ。
のわきのかぜ。［季語］秋。《吹飛ばす石は浅間の ─ かな / 芭蕉 》」とあります。
もう少し詳しく…
『全訳読解古語辞典 第三版』では、語釈のあとに「読解のために」というコラ
ムがあります。そこには「中古の作品では、野分の強風ぶりとともに、その風情
も語られている。野分の風は、肌寒さや心細さを感じさせ、人恋しくさせるもの
であった」として、「源氏物語」や「和泉式部日記」の例が挙がっています。
いつごろに適したことば？ ----------- 『大辞林』にあるように、二百十日
（9月1日ごろ）や二百二十日（9月11日ごろ）のころ、台風が多いころに使われ
ます。
時候のあいさつに使うなら… 「野分の候」「野分の砌（みぎり）」など
ちなみに…
『全訳読解古語辞典』によると「野分」とは「秋に吹く暴風」と解説したうえ
で、「［関連語］類義語に「嵐（あらし）」があり、特に季節を限定しない暴風
の意」とあります。 現代では、秋に吹く暴風といったら「台風」と言うのが一般的でしょう。時候の
あいさつで使う場合は、同じように「台風の候」という書き方もあるようです。
少し落ち着いたころには「台風一過 秋晴れもすがすがしく」というふうに書き
出しに使うのもいいでしょう。
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