XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μούσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ πλάγχθη, ὃς καὶ
Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπεισεν

andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polytropon, hos mala polla plangthē, hos kai
Troiēs hieron ptoleiethron epeisen


moi -- just like French


[andra, polytropon] are both Accusative so they align ...
they go together as if they were Yoked.

(even though there're 3 words in between)

Do you have this in French, German?

i guess... we have this in English.



_________________


the position of [kai] in [hos kai] is interesting...
i guess it's like WHO-Also


____________________________

is Greek and Latin strongly-typed (regarding each word's case) to a
similar Degree?



Degree of Inflection: Both languages are strongly typed in that the
case endings dictate the grammatical function of words.

However, Greek often has more nuanced forms and uses than Latin,
especially in verbs.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:22:22 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

HenHanna wrote:

ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μούσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ πλάγχθη, ὃς καὶ
Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπεισεν

andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polytropon, hos mala polla plangthē, hos kai
Troiēs hieron ptoleiethron epeisen


         moi -- just like French


[andra, polytropon] are both Accusative so they align ...
they go together as if they were Yoked.

                 (even though there're  3 words in between)

Do you have this in French, German?

i guess... we have this in English.



_________________


the position of  [kai]  in  [hos kai]  is interesting...
                     i guess it's like  WHO-Also


____________________________

is Greek and Latin  strongly-typed (regarding each word's case)  to a
similar Degree?



Degree of Inflection:     Both languages are strongly typed in that the >>> case endings dictate the grammatical function of words.

However, Greek often has more nuanced forms and uses than Latin,
especially in verbs.

I've never seen that version before; only this one.
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

Ed

I can't find a hit of your version anywhere on the Web.
I went searching because I'm interested. I studied Classics at
university, and specialised in Homeric Studies. The opening lines of the Odyssey have stayed with me.
The ancient Greeks (especially the Alexandrians) standardised the
Homeric poems, and passed on one version. I don't recall hearing of
another.

Your ὃς καὶ looks rather acceptable as Homeric Greek.
Your ἔπεισεν, however, doesn't fit.

What have you done? Made changes to test if anyone might see them? Or,
maybe, picked up a version from private correspondence with someone
who's experimenting?

Ed

i got them by asking Poe.com

(because Polyptoton reminded me of Polytropon)
--------- is there another word, just like them?


give me the opening sentence of The Odyssey
give me the transliteration
give me meaning of each word
give me next sentence
give me next sentence .................


__________________________________________________________________
AI misremembering (just as Humans do) is a Feature, not a Bug.



for the past few days... i've been very interested in Hendiadys.


Sound and Fury

reminds me of....

expressions common in the 1950's USA (Noir films) like

Give it to me, and fast.

I was going nowhere fast.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 01:16:55 +0000: HenHanna <HenHanna@dev.null>
scribeva:

????? ??? ??????, ?????, ??????????, ?? ???? ????? ???????, ?? ???
?????? ????? ?????????? ???????

andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polytropon, hos mala polla plangth?, hos kai
Troi?s hieron ptoleiethron epeisen
moi -- just like French

Of course. French and Greek are both Indo-European languages, and
nasals haven’t changed in the phonetic developments.

The vowels however are less reliable. I suspect moi in Greek is
actually moy so mu?

[andra, polytropon] are both Accusative so they align ...
they go together as if they were Yoked.

(even though there're 3 words in between)

Do you have this in French, German?

Of course. Insofar as they have cases and declinations. French only in
personal pronouns.

is Greek and Latin strongly-typed (regarding each word's case) to a
similar Degree?

Of course, why not?

Degree of Inflection: Both languages are strongly typed in that the
case endings dictate the grammatical function of words.

Isn't it rather the other way round?

Strongly typed I think is a programming term, not used in lingistics.

However, Greek often has more nuanced forms and uses than Latin,
especially in verbs.

I doubt that. All languages are equally nuanced, but often by
different means.
--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

Ar an ceathrú lá déag de mí na Samhain, scríobh Ed Cryer:

[...] Poe.com is an OpenAI bot, and I have experience of some other falsehoods from ChatGPT. It might be better to stick with Google or Bing for similar future searches, otherwise we might end up with "hendiatreis" (:-

Yandex is the only search engine that doesn’t seem to have worsened since ChatGPT came out. That said I haven’t seen Google invent results out of whole cloth, it’s just worse at giving me the results I want, rather than the results
it “thinks” I want, so I need to search iteratively two or three times rather
than just once.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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