• Noam Chomsky born (7/12/1928)

    From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 8 23:02:50 2024
    Apparently he has been living in Brazil since last year.
    (His second wife is Brazilian.)

    "In 2023, Chomsky suffered a massive stroke and was flown to a hospital
    in São Paulo, Brazil, to recuperate. He can no longer walk or
    communicate, making his return to public life improbable, but he
    continues to follow current events such as the Israel–Hamas war. He was discharged in June 2024 to continue his recovery at home. The same
    month, Chomsky trended on social media amid false reports of his death. Periodicals retracted premature obituaries."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
    (where there is much more)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Sun Dec 8 18:11:22 2024
    On 2024-12-08 10:02:50 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    Apparently he has been living in Brazil since last year.
    (His second wife is Brazilian.)

    "In 2023, Chomsky suffered a massive stroke and was flown to a hospital
    in São Paulo, Brazil, to recuperate. He can no longer walk or
    communicate, making his return to public life improbable, but he
    continues to follow current events such as the Israel–Hamas war. He was discharged in June 2024 to continue his recovery at home. The same
    month, Chomsky trended on social media amid false reports of his death. Periodicals retracted premature obituaries."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
    (where there is much more)

    I met Chomsky once, if you can call it that. I was staying for two
    weeks in the Certosa di Pontignano for a collaboration with someone in
    Siena. For the first week I was alone, and for dinner they seated me at
    a large table by myself. For the second week my wife and dughter joined
    me, and we sat at the same table. There was a linguistics conference
    arranged at the Certosa for a couple of days. During dinner an elderly
    man arrived and was put at the other end of the same table. Our
    conversation didn't extend beyond things like "Would you be kind enough
    to pass the salt, please." He left before we did, and someone sitting
    at one of the smaller tables where they put the rank and file at the
    conference said "Do you know who that was?" After I said no he said it
    was Chomsky. I'm not sure what I might have said to him if I'd known
    who he was.

    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Mon Dec 9 18:16:43 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 17:11:22 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

    On 2024-12-08 10:02:50 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    Apparently he has been living in Brazil since last year.
    (His second wife is Brazilian.)

    "In 2023, Chomsky suffered a massive stroke and was flown to a hospital
    in São Paulo, Brazil, to recuperate. He can no longer walk or
    communicate, making his return to public life improbable, but he
    continues to follow current events such as the Israel–Hamas war. He was
    discharged in June 2024 to continue his recovery at home. The same
    month, Chomsky trended on social media amid false reports of his death.
    Periodicals retracted premature obituaries."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
    (where there is much more)



    When was this?

    I met Chomsky once, if you can call it that. I was staying for two
    weeks in the Certosa di Pontignano for a collaboration with someone in
    Siena. For the first week I was alone, and for dinner they seated me at
    a large table by myself. For the second week my wife and dughter joined
    me, and we sat at the same table. There was a linguistics conference
    arranged at the Certosa for a couple of days. During dinner an elderly
    man arrived and was put at the other end of the same table. Our
    conversation didn't extend beyond things like "Would you be kind enough
    to pass the salt, please." He left before we did, and someone sitting
    at one of the smaller tables where they put the rank and file at the conference said "Do you know who that was?" After I said no he said it
    was Chomsky. I'm not sure what I might have said to him if I'd known
    who he was.


    Did anyone watch the 90 min (?) documentary about Chomsky that
    came out about 10 years ago? ------- (it was lame)


    (i liked the film [Manufacturing Consent]) Around that time, i went
    to a talk by him.


    The book by Tom Wolfe was good... Half of the book was on Chomsky.
    ------- his early years, His rise to fame.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Barnett@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 10 01:21:29 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 10 10:04:50 2024
    Ar an deichiú lá de mí na Nollaig, scríobh Jeff Barnett:

    [...] I interacted with several MIT folks who worked with and around Chomsky in the 1960s and 1970s though I never met him. I formed a few impressions that were favorable. The first was that he provided several theories about the origins of language and the development of its structure in enough detail that one could criticize the ideas and, in so doing, learn things whether or not his original speculations were completely correct or not.

    And then he was consistently unwilling to accept data that falsified his theories.

    The second was his work in formal language theory: the identification of relative powers of representations. (In computer science, the hierarchy from finite state to touring machines.) This work led to computer tools that allowed various grammars to describe languages and either attempt recognition or generation. I believe that these tools brought a new wrinkle into linguistics: You got a theory, show me your grammar and I'll quickly generate a few thousand examples and see if they all ring true.

    Almost never relevant to conventional languages (because the grammars were always incomplete), and a dead-end for computer languages. Neither are used today in anger. Machine translation and large language models use statistical methods. Compilers that aim to give helpful feedback with compile errors (that are not toys) need heavy hand-parsing of the input.

    All in all, the above brought a degree of science to linguistics that hadn't been there before because practitioners were now asked to provide at least partially testable theories. This supposedly deprecated the artistic flare that linguists brought to the field but I don't think that was the case. Rather, it eliminated a substantial amount of bull shit that was foist by reputation rather than testing.

    As I say, a dead end, his own brand of bullshit.

    But he made a good living from the military-industrial complex while loudly decrying the military-industrial complex. Maybe his underlying motivation was to waste US taxpayer money.

    Not being a linguist myself, I may hold beliefs that are counter to your more
    informed opinions. In part these opinions came from seeing the "MAC hackers" coding up some professors' linguistics publications and generating raucous nonsense with the code. Of course you'd hear horse laughs all through the AI lab.

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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