On 2024-12-27 15:32:22 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

A news item make me look up the language skills in a particular
European country, which in turn led me to discover that there is a
whole new 2024 edition of the "Europeans and their languages"
Eurobarometer survey.

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

Abstract
The Eurobarometer survey on Europeans and their languages provides
information on citizens' language skills, use of languages and
attitude to language learning within the European Union. It also
allows us to see the evolution over time, as results are compared
with the previous language survey conducted in 2012.

(No idea when/if I'll find the time to look at the whole thing.)

Thanks. Interesting. However, there is a question of definition that is important in this context: what is one's "mother tongue"? My mother
tongue is clearly English, and my wife's is equally clearly Spanish,
but our daughter's? She has been hearing both since the day she was
born (indeed, before she was born, as my wife used to talk to her in
the womb, as I did occasionally), and she has been fluent in both at
least since she was three. However, she was educated in French, and
that is the language she uses every day. She has been effortlessly
trilingual since the age of five.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

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A news item make me look up the language skills in a particular
European country, which in turn led me to discover that there is a
whole new 2024 edition of the "Europeans and their languages"
Eurobarometer survey.

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

Abstract
The Eurobarometer survey on Europeans and their languages provides
information on citizens' language skills, use of languages and
attitude to language learning within the European Union. It also
allows us to see the evolution over time, as results are compared
with the previous language survey conducted in 2012.

(No idea when/if I'll find the time to look at the whole thing.)

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2024-12-27, Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

Thanks. Interesting. However, there is a question of definition that is important in this context: what is one's "mother tongue"?

From the chapter "Technical Specifications", question D48a:

D48a) Thinking about the languages that you speak, which
language is your mother tongue?

(INTERVIEWER INSTRUCTION: ADD IF NECESSARY: By mother tongue, I
mean your native language, your first language, the one you speak
with your family at home or in the community. If you have more
than one mother tongue or native language, you will be able to
indicate this in the next questions. For this question, please
select the one you think it is the most relevant.)

Respondents could also pick "None – don't think any language is my
mother tongue".

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

A news item make me look up the language skills in a particular
European country, which in turn led me to discover that there is a
whole new 2024 edition of the "Europeans and their languages"
Eurobarometer survey.

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

Abstract
The Eurobarometer survey on Europeans and their languages provides
information on citizens' language skills, use of languages and
attitude to language learning within the European Union. It also
allows us to see the evolution over time, as results are compared
with the previous language survey conducted in 2012.

I find the numbers hard to believe. One in six people who live in Germany speaks enough French to have a conversation in French? I think I have
only met the five others. One in nine Europeans has four languages at his disposal for talking with other people? I have never met one of these.

--
Helmut Richter

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On 2024-12-28, Helmut Richter <hr.usenet@email.de> wrote:

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

I find the numbers hard to believe.

Well, it's self-reported, so I guess you get the people who think
serving years of foreign language class punishment entitles them
to be classified as speaking that language, as well as the other
end with quasi-native speakers who self-deprecatingly say that
they're not very good at the language.

One in six people who live in Germany speaks enough French to
have a conversation in French? I think I have only met the five
others.

I've definitely met Germans who are fluent in French. More generally,
you don't really know what languages people speak until you observe
them doing so or, conversely, they studiously avoid any actual use
of a language they claim to master.

One in nine Europeans has four languages at his
disposal for talking with other people? I have never met one of these.

The perils of geographic bias. I guess you don't (knowingly) run
across many Luxembourgers down there in Munich. At the University
of Kaiserslautern, we had a small community of Luxembourgish students.
I only discovered some of them one by one when I accidentally caught
them speaking Luxembourgish amongst each other or French to our
African students. In addition to Luxembourgish, German, and French,
they could also muster the usual English as foreign language.
Désirée Nosbusch doing her thing at Eurovision isn't as unusual
as you might think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EipoCiMttWY

A number of years ago I had lunch at a restaurant in Piran, part
of Slovenia's tiny slice of Mediterranean coast and a very touristy
place, and the waiter wanted to show off by speaking to each guest
in their native language. Between our international table and the
neighboring ones we came to, I forgot, maybe ten languages combined?
Which he handled with aplomb.

I suspect a lot of the four-language Europeans are from immigrant
communities, so you have parent language, local language, English,
plus one other foreign language. And while I doubt there are enough
to move the needle in this survey, there are also immigrants from
a more or less bilingual background, think Albanian/Serbo-Croatian, Ukrainian/Russian, Arabic/French.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On 2024-12-28 19:46:08 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

On 2024-12-28, Helmut Richter <hr.usenet@email.de> wrote:

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2979

I find the numbers hard to believe.

Well, it's self-reported, so I guess you get the people who think
serving years of foreign language class punishment entitles them
to be classified as speaking that language, as well as the other
end with quasi-native speakers who self-deprecatingly say that
they're not very good at the language.

Exactly: self-reported estimates need to be treated with caution.

I don't think my daughter claims to be a German speaker, but on one
occasion 25 years ago (when she was 16) she was able to carry on
conversations in German with two German youngsters -- one older, one
younger. We took her to a meeting in Hungary that was also attended by
a German scientist, who brought his children. We assumed beforehand
that they would communicate in English, but no: our daughter's German
was better than their English, and they communicated in German.

--

Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

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* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)