• (TIL) the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the Victorian gramm

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 3 01:46:37 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    TIL (Today I Learned) that...

    the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the Victorian
    grammarian Alford --

    "[A Plea for] The Queen's English" by Henry Alford, D.D.,
    published in 1864.


    ______________

    His (pet-peeve) example was "to scientifically illustrate".

    ___________

    The rule against splitting infinitives is often attributed to Victorian grammarian Henry Alford, who argued that doing so could
    disrupt the flow of a sentence.

    Today, a famous example of a split infinitive is "to boldly
    go," where "boldly" separates the infinitive "to go."

    Despite its historical roots, many modern linguists and style
    guides accept split infinitives as a natural part of English usage. The emphasis is now on clarity and readability rather than strict adherence
    to this rule.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 16:55:59 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    HenHanna:

    the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the Victorian grammarian Alford --

    "[A Plea for] The Queen's English" by Henry Alford, D.D.,
    published in 1864.

    What nonsense -- as if prior to 1864 great writers were
    splitting their inifinitives. The rule is based on the
    principle of cohesion, or the keeping of related elements
    together. The stronger the relation, the closer they should
    be to one other, even to the detriment of weaker
    connections. A violation of this rule produces ugly
    results in language and elsewhere, because cohesion is a
    universal principle in complex systems.

    Despite its historical roots, many modern
    linguists and style guides accept split infinitives as a
    natural part of English usage. The emphasis is now on
    clarity and readability rather than strict adherence to
    this rule.

    The modern linguist is like the science-minded doctor,
    impassively recording the progress of a disease with no mind
    to helping the patient. Think Dr. Mengele.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 14:44:55 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Le 08/02/2025 à 13:55, Anton Shepelev a écrit :
    HenHanna:

    the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the Victorian
    grammarian Alford --

    "[A Plea for] The Queen's English" by Henry Alford, D.D.,
    published in 1864.

    What nonsense -- as if prior to 1864 great writers were
    splitting their inifinitives. The rule is based on the
    principle of cohesion, or the keeping of related elements
    together. The stronger the relation, the closer they should
    be to one other, even to the detriment of weaker
    connections. A violation of this rule produces ugly
    results in language and elsewhere, because cohesion is a
    universal principle in complex systems.

    Despite its historical roots, many modern
    linguists and style guides accept split infinitives as a
    natural part of English usage. The emphasis is now on
    clarity and readability rather than strict adherence to
    this rule.

    The modern linguist is like the science-minded doctor,
    impassively recording the progress of a disease with no mind
    to helping the patient. Think Dr. Mengele.

    Doing the splits (for what it's worth): <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=to+_ADV_+be%3Aeng_us%2Cto+_ADV_+be%3Aeng_gb%2C%28to+split+infinitives+*+3000%29&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 18:35:24 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Hibou:

    Doing the splits (for what it's worth): <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=to+_ADV_+be%3Aeng_us%2Cto+_ADV_+be%3Aeng_gb%2C%28to+split+infinitives+*+3000%29&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>

    So, the infinitive-splitting began to grow circa 1970 and
    exploded circa 2000, reflecting the two (anti-)cultural
    revolutions.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 19:26:58 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Jerry Friedman to Anton Shepelev:

    What nonsense

    It's not too far off. Wikipedia cites four writers
    condemning split infinitives before Alford, but Alford was
    the one who made the condemnation well known.

    This is true. What I called nonsense, however, is the
    following sentence from HH's LLM-like article:

    The rule against splitting infinitives is often attributed
    to Victorian grammarian Henry Alford

    The rule had been in effect for hundreds of years prior,
    although not explicitly stated, because universally (albeit
    subconsciously ant intuitively) understood by careful
    speakers of English. The condemnations appeared as a
    reaction to increeping violations of that rule.

    Yes, there are several more or less famous condemners of the
    split infinitive, but their arguments are either subjective
    (e.g. appealing to taste) or otherwise doubtful (e.g.
    appealing to Latin grammar).

    (I added at least one of those citations to the
    Wikiparticle, and contributed a lot of other things to
    it.)

    Thanks, it is good work indeed.

    Split infinitives had indeed almost disappeared,

    But those early examples do not mention the split infinitive
    in the narrow sense, with a -ly adverb as the wedge, nor
    does the Shakespeare quote, /to pitied be/, which sounds great
    to me: strong and hard.

    but they became more common in the late 18th and the 19th
    century. Wikipedia mentions Daniel Defoe, Benjamin
    Franklin, William Wordsworth, Abraham Lincoln, George
    Eliot, and Robert Burns.

    The Burns quote, /to nobly stem/, is a genuine split
    infinitive. Having read and enjoyed /Robinson Crusoe/, as
    well as some selected sermons of Donne, I cannot recall a
    single split infinitive there. It must be /very/ rare in
    those writers. I seem to remember dangling participle in
    /Crusoe/, yet I think thewe are not due to any sloppiness.

    The rule is based on the principle of cohesion, or the
    keeping of related elements together.

    I From that you can conclude that the adverb is often
    connected to the verb more closely than the "to" is.

    I never see it that way. The infinitive is the basic
    syntatic framework, to which the adverb may be added as a
    decoration as it were, eiher from behind or in the front,
    but never in the middle.

    Compare "I will not go", for example.

    Here, /not/ is tightly bound to /will/. In /I love you
    not/, however, the /not/ is negating the preceding sentence
    entire.

    Actually, other things than cohesion are involved in word
    order.

    Indeed, not to mention that cohesion itself is a many-layered
    thing, permeating speech from word level all the way up to
    the general outline of the composition.

    For instance, at least in English, long sentence elements
    tend to go to the end.

    I think that tendency has intensified only in the last 100
    years, so that the logically worded question "Of what is it a
    picture?" has become "What is it a picture of?"

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Anton Shepelev on Sun Feb 9 15:13:27 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On 09/02/25 03:26, Anton Shepelev wrote:
    Jerry Friedman to Anton Shepelev:

    I From that you can conclude that the adverb is often connected to
    the verb more closely than the "to" is.

    I never see it that way. The infinitive is the basic syntatic
    framework, to which the adverb may be added as a decoration as it
    were, eiher from behind or in the front, but never in the middle.

    For quite some time sloppy writers have used the term "split infinitive"
    to describe a situation where a word comes between "to" and the
    infinitive. That shows an ignorance of English grammar. Strictly
    speaking, the "to" never was part of the infinitive. The "to" is a
    particle that is often, but not always, attached to an infinitive, in
    the same way that an article is often, but not always, attached to a
    noun. Would you say that "the big man" is a split noun because "big" has
    been inserted into the noun "the man"? In the phrase "to boldly go", the infinitive is "go", not "to go".

    Here's a true example of a split infinitive:
    "You should not sfuckingplit an infinitive".

    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 06:56:13 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Le 08/02/2025 à 13:55, Anton Shepelev a écrit :
    HenHanna's AI:

    the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the Victorian
    grammarian Alford --

    "[A Plea for] The Queen's English" by Henry Alford, D.D.,
    published in 1864.

    What nonsense -- as if prior to 1864 great writers were
    splitting their inifinitives. The rule is based on the
    principle of cohesion, or the keeping of related elements
    together. The stronger the relation, the closer they should
    be to one other, even to the detriment of weaker
    connections. A violation of this rule produces ugly
    results in language and elsewhere, because cohesion is a
    universal principle in complex systems. [...]

    I don't split infinitives myself. My mental style sheet advises against
    it, because it is not necessary and it will distract readers who care
    about them. The question rarely arises anyway in tight writing, shorn of unnecessary adjectives and adverbs. I have some sympathy with the
    semantic unit idea, while observing with some astonishment that I am
    quite happy to do as the French, and plop words into the middle of a
    passé composé (Je suis /tout de suite/ allé... etc.).

    ... it's five-year mission... to go where no man has gone before

    That's already bold enough. To say so explicitly smacks of immodesty.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HVS@21:1/5 to Peter Moylan on Sun Feb 9 11:09:11 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On 09 Feb 2025, Peter Moylan wrote

    On 09/02/25 03:26, Anton Shepelev wrote:
    Jerry Friedman to Anton Shepelev:

    I From that you can conclude that the adverb is often connected
    to the verb more closely than the "to" is.

    I never see it that way. The infinitive is the basic syntatic
    framework, to which the adverb may be added as a decoration as it
    were, eiher from behind or in the front, but never in the middle.

    For quite some time sloppy writers have used the term "split
    infinitive" to describe a situation where a word comes between
    "to" and the infinitive. That shows an ignorance of English
    grammar. Strictly speaking, the "to" never was part of the
    infinitive. The "to" is a particle that is often, but not always,
    attached to an infinitive, in the same way that an article is
    often, but not always, attached to a noun. Would you say that "the
    big man" is a split noun because "big" has been inserted into the
    noun "the man"? In the phrase "to boldly go", the infinitive is
    "go", not "to go".

    Here's a true example of a split infinitive:
    "You should not sfuckingplit an infinitive".

    Well put; I agree with this entirely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 22:29:27 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 15:13:27 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
    wrote:

    For quite some time sloppy writers have used the term "split infinitive"
    to describe a situation where a word comes between "to" and the
    infinitive. That shows an ignorance of English grammar. Strictly
    speaking, the "to" never was part of the infinitive. The "to" is a
    particle that is often, but not always, attached to an infinitive, in
    the same way that an article is often, but not always, attached to a
    noun. Would you say that "the big man" is a split noun because "big" has
    been inserted into the noun "the man"? In the phrase "to boldly go", the infinitive is "go", not "to go".

    Moreover, the "to" is attached to the helping verb, rather than to the infinitve: "I must eat", "I have to eat".

    --
    Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
    some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
    The above message is a Usenet post.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 11:35:46 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    I wrote:

    But those early examples do not mention the split infinitive
    in the narrow sense, with a -ly adverb as the wedge

    My brain stumbed. /any/ adverb characterising the action denoted
    by the verb fits, e.g.: /always/

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 15 23:54:59 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Joy Beeson:

    Moreover, the "to" is attached to the helping verb, rather
    than to the infinitve: "I must eat", "I have to eat".

    It is attached to the verb in the infinitive mood.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 15 23:50:16 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Peter Moylan:

    For quite some time sloppy writers have used the term
    "split infinitive" to describe a situation where a word
    comes between "to" and the infinitive.

    I object to the adjective. No, this is a clanger. I demur
    the adjective, for not all errors are due to sloppiness.

    That shows an ignorance of English grammar. Strictly
    speaking, the "to" never was part of the infinitive. The
    "to" is a particle that is often, but not always, attached
    to an infinitive,

    Yes, one can view it that way as well, but the concept of
    /infitive/ and /bare infinitive/ are in wide use and not
    totally wrong. At least, it provides a name for a single
    entity governed by a non-modal verb, e.g. in /I lurve to
    drive/ the verb /lurve/ governs the infinitive /to drive/.
    With the terminology you defend, no such single entity
    exists.

    I, however, have disliked the term /infinitive/ as including
    the /to/ since school and have found it confusing. But I
    did not know about an alternative view (and terminology).

    in the same way that an article is often, but not always,
    attached to a noun. The "to" is a particle that is often,
    but not always, attached to an infinitive, in the same way
    that an article is often, but not always, attached to a
    noun.

    I fear it is rather hard to defend this claim in its narrow
    meaning, but it if was meant as an analogy, then I agree.

    Would you say that "the big man" is a split noun because
    "big" has been inserted into the noun "the man"? In the
    phrase "to boldly go", the infinitive is "go", not "to
    go".

    So it was not just an analogy. No, I disagree on the ground
    of wrong analogy (which may go only thus far). Whereas the
    noun is not a verb and the particle not the article (despite
    the rhyme), the relation between article and noun is not the
    same as that between /to/ (particle or whatever it has been
    variously called) and the verb.

    In the phrase "to boldly go", the infinitive is "go", not
    "to go".

    OK. What does the omitted preceeding verb (e.g. /decided/)
    govern -- the particle or the infinitive?

    Another comment on the thread subject is also in order:

    the rule [Don't split infinitives] comes from the
    Victorian grammarian Alford's usage book (1864)

    In addition to being overprimitive (as observed in a prior
    post) in ascribing the rule to a single author, this
    statement makes the false impression that the rule is based
    on Victorian grammar(s) considering /to/ as part of the
    infinitive (and therefore un-splittable), whereas many
    grammars not only follow this rule without explicitely
    stating it, but also state it while not including /to/ into
    the infinitive. The last book where I have encountered it,
    although not a exactly grammar, but still a work about
    Enlgish -- /Words; Their Use and Abuse/, by William
    Mathews:

    To extremely maltreat.
    This phrase from /Trench/ is an example of a very
    common solecism. /To/, the sign of the infinitive,
    should never be separated from the verb. Say "to
    maltreat extremely," or "extremely to maltreat."

    For another example, Goold Brown in his /The Grammar of
    English Grammars/ does not consider /to/ as part of the
    infiniive and calls it a preposition putting the following
    verb into the infinitive mood. Yes he never ever inserts
    any word beween that preposition and the verb.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Sun Feb 16 08:54:12 2025
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On 10/02/25 14:29, Joy Beeson wrote:

    Moreover, the "to" is attached to the helping verb, rather than to the infinitve: "I must eat", "I have to eat".

    I simply have to.

    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)