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Sorry, this is OT, but as an occasional poster allow me to bring this
under your attention.

I like playing CarBur on the piano, it has been a "lijflied" (personal
anthem?) since my youth, and triggered my interest in languages (I did Latin-Greek).

Now, as there are *very* few complete piano versions on the internet,
and the professional ones feature some passages I don't like,  I decided
to make one myself, be it of an amateur level.

Here are the links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcHGUtv8RQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEJD6j8yCY

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

Thanks,

--
guido wugi

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On 2025-05-30, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

Looks Germanic... Wikipedia tells me it's Middle High German.
Did Joseph Wright[1] also write a MHG primer? Yes, he did! Checking
there...

~ was hier geht um(her)

"Swaz" < "so waz" 'whatever' is apparently a relative pronoun.
Neither "swaz" nor "umbe" have modern forms.


[1] Wright's Old High German primer is my go-to resource for that
language stage. He also wrote one on Gothic. They're all
available on the Internet Archive.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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Op 30/05/2025 om 16:21 schreef Christian Weisgerber:

On 2025-05-30, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One
example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

Looks Germanic... Wikipedia tells me it's Middle High German.
Did Joseph Wright[1] also write a MHG primer? Yes, he did! Checking there...

~ was hier geht um(her)

"Swaz" < "so waz" 'whatever' is apparently a relative pronoun.
Neither "swaz" nor "umbe" have modern forms.

[1] Wright's Old High German primer is my go-to resource for that
language stage. He also wrote one on Gothic. They're all
available on the Internet Archive.

Aha, "so was". Thank you!
When did "gan" (nl. gaan) become "gehen"?

--
guido wugi

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guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Sorry, this is OT, but as an occasional poster allow me to bring this
under your attention.

I like playing CarBur on the piano, it has been a "lijflied" (personal anthem?) since my youth, and triggered my interest in languages (I did Latin-Greek).

Why bother with that fascist/volkish Orff version
when you can have far more authentic renderings?
(like by Clemencic, or the Hilliard ensemble)

Now, as there are *very* few complete piano versions on the internet,
and the professional ones feature some passages I don't like, I decided
to make one myself, be it of an amateur level.

Here are the links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcHGUtv8RQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEJD6j8yCY

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

No 'das' It is the girls who are dancing around. (in a circle)

Jan

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On 2025-05-30, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

When did "gan" (nl. gaan) become "gehen"?

"Gān" and "gēn" have been variants since Old High German times.
I guess "gēn" won out eventually and "gehen" appears to be an
unetymological attempt to regularize the spelling.

| The form gēn appears early on in Bavarian, later spreading to
| eastern and southern Franconian and to the newly developing East
| Central German. Its origins are unknown. One theory invokes the
| original paradigm of Proto-West Germanic *gān, which had *ai in
| the 2nd and 3rd persons singular of the present; compare Middle
| Low German gân > he geit, modern Colognian jonn > hä jeiht, etc.
| The Old High German ē might thus be explained as a compromise
| vowel between ā and ei. What lends credence to this theory is the
| fact that Old High German ē cannot have developed regularly in
| the given position, as it only occurs before h, r, w, and
| word-finally.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gen#Old_High_German
(No source given, but sounds sensible.)

The preterite and past participle are from a different verb "gangan". https://www.dwds.de/wb/etymwb/gehen

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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Fri, 30 May 2025 14:21:20 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:

On 2025-05-30, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One
example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

Looks Germanic... Wikipedia tells me it's Middle High German.
Did Joseph Wright[1] also write a MHG primer? Yes, he did! Checking >there...

~ was hier geht um(her)

"Swaz" < "so waz" 'whatever' is apparently a relative pronoun.
Neither "swaz" nor "umbe" have modern forms.

Umbe, umme, um? Just phonetics?

[1] Wright's Old High German primer is my go-to resource for that
language stage. He also wrote one on Gothic. They're all
available on the Internet Archive.

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

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Op 31/05/2025 om 10:53 schreef Ruud Harmsen:

Fri, 30 May 2025 14:21:20 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:

On 2025-05-30, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One
example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

Looks Germanic... Wikipedia tells me it's Middle High German.
Did Joseph Wright[1] also write a MHG primer? Yes, he did! Checking
there...

~ was hier geht um(her)

"Swaz" < "so waz" 'whatever' is apparently a relative pronoun.
Neither "swaz" nor "umbe" have modern forms.

Umbe, umme, um? Just phonetics?

https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/om

ombe, umbe ~ ambi, amphi

--
guido wugi

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Op 30/05/2025 om 23:37 schreef J. J. Lodder:

guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Sorry, this is OT, but as an occasional poster allow me to bring this
under your attention.

I like playing CarBur on the piano, it has been a "lijflied" (personal
anthem?) since my youth, and triggered my interest in languages (I did
Latin-Greek).

Why bother with that fascist/volkish Orff version

Like the rest of the world?

when you can have far more authentic renderings?
(like by Clemencic, or the Hilliard ensemble)

I've got a few of those too, and some are really boooring. One was
reasonable, I remember.

Now, as there are *very* few complete piano versions on the internet,
and the professional ones feature some passages I don't like, I decided
to make one myself, be it of an amateur level.

Here are the links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcHGUtv8RQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEJD6j8yCY

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One
example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

No 'das' It is the girls who are dancing around. (in a circle)

"So was", or "Das was", it is still neuter "was" which is the main
pronoun, so revise your semantics/linguistics.

As I understand (or interpret) it, "gat umbe" is not an action verb for
the girls, but a state of being verb for "was". It can be rephrased
almost literally in modern form:
(That/ So,) what's going about/on here, [those are all girls who...]
(Zo,) wat hier omgaat, [dat(!) zijn allemaal meiden die...]

Another question:
"Swaz hie gat umbe" has no inversion. At what stage did inversion become standard in German (and Dutch)?

--
guido wugi

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guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Op 30/05/2025 om 23:37 schreef J. J. Lodder:

guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Sorry, this is OT, but as an occasional poster allow me to bring this
under your attention.

I like playing CarBur on the piano, it has been a "lijflied" (personal
anthem?) since my youth, and triggered my interest in languages (I did
Latin-Greek).

Why bother with that fascist/volkish Orff version

Like the rest of the world?

when you can have far more authentic renderings?
(like by Clemencic, or the Hilliard ensemble)

I've got a few of those too, and some are really boooring. One was reasonable, I remember.

OK, let us agree to note that our opinion on pompous noise differ.
Like our opinions on authentic performances from any age, I guess.

Now, as there are *very* few complete piano versions on the internet,
and the professional ones feature some passages I don't like, I decided >> to make one myself, be it of an amateur level.

Here are the links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcHGUtv8RQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEJD6j8yCY

Perhaps a bit on topic: the German parts pose some questions to me. One
example: how to parse
"Swaz hie gat umbe"?
~ "Das was hier rundumgeht"?

No 'das' It is the girls who are dancing around. (in a circle)

"So was", or "Das was", it is still neuter "was" which is the main
pronoun, so revise your semantics/linguistics.

The most concise translation would be:
'what is going (a)round here',
I think.
The next line gives the answer.

As I understand (or interpret) it, "gat umbe" is not an action verb for
the girls, but a state of being verb for "was". It can be rephrased
almost literally in modern form:
(That/ So,) what's going about/on here, [those are all girls who...]
(Zo,) wat hier omgaat, [dat(!) zijn allemaal meiden die...]

I find an 'action translation' (o that is suitable for performing) as

Here dancin' and a whirlin'
they're everyone a virgin:
they plan to go without a man
all the summer if they can!
w

Another question:
"Swaz hie gat umbe" has no inversion. At what stage did inversion become standard in German (and Dutch)?

No idea,

Jan w

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