I'd need some help in understanding an English sentence which deals with a language issue. I know each word but it might be to be ambiguous in its meaning, and native speakers could be of some help.
I start with two idioms before quoting to sentence in its context.
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this correct?
“establish a difference”: I would understand it as “draw a distinction,
discern, discriminate”, rather than “perceive, notice, realize a difference”. This is the key point of my question.
Now the context. Some L2 students of a language are not taught about a subtle difference in the pronunciation of similar-looking words, so they will pronounce them in the same way. However, in careful pronunciation, there would be a difference. This situation is described with the words:
They fail to establish a difference on which no stress is laid in
language education.
At first sight, it means to me in this context:
They do not pronounce the words differently because they are not taught
to, or not insistantly enough. (Nothing is said about whether they may
have noticed the difference.)
Could that sentence also mean that they do not perceive/notice/realize the difference rather than they do not reproduce it?
Well, the net effect on language education for these students is the same
in both cases. But I want to understand in the first place what the author wrote.
--
Helmut Richter
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this correct?
They fail to establish a difference on which no stress is laid in
language education.
On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 6:16:26 AM UTC-8, Helmut Richter wrote:
I'd need some help in understanding an English sentence which deals with a language issue. I know each word but it might be to be ambiguous in its meaning, and native speakers could be of some help.
I start with two idioms before quoting to sentence in its context.
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this correct?
“establish a difference”: I would understand it as “draw a distinction,
discern, discriminate”, rather than “perceive, notice, realize a difference”. This is the key point of my question.
Now the context. Some L2 students of a language are not taught about a subtle difference in the pronunciation of similar-looking words, so they will pronounce them in the same way. However, in careful pronunciation, there would be a difference. This situation is described with the words:
They fail to establish a difference on which no stress is laid in
language education.
At first sight, it means to me in this context:
They do not pronounce the words differently because they are not taught
to, or not insistantly enough. (Nothing is said about whether they may
have noticed the difference.)
Could that sentence also mean that they do not perceive/notice/realize the difference rather than they do not reproduce it?
Well, the net effect on language education for these students is the same in both cases. But I want to understand in the first place what the author wrote.
(hello... i just found this today.)
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this correct?
i agree with the dictionary-def and not you impression, but maybe often
it's used casually in an arrogant (condescending) way.... the writer says something like [Students fail to realize....] and the writer is (metaphorically) shaking his head.
what's the particular example here?
On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 1:29:15 AM UTC-7, Helmut Richter wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2022, Hen Hanna wrote:
On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 6:16:26 AM UTC-8, Helmut Richter wrote:
I'd need some help in understanding an English sentence which deals with a
language issue. I know each word but it might be to be ambiguous in its
meaning, and native speakers could be of some help.
I start with two idioms before quoting to sentence in its context.
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this
correct?
On Fri, 20 May 2022, Hen Hanna wrote:
On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 6:16:26 AM UTC-8, Helmut Richter wrote:
I'd need some help in understanding an English sentence which deals with a
language issue. I know each word but it might be to be ambiguous in its meaning, and native speakers could be of some help.
I start with two idioms before quoting to sentence in its context.
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this
correct?
“establish a difference”: I would understand it as “draw a distinction,
discern, discriminate”, rather than “perceive, notice, realize a difference”. This is the key point of my question.
Now the context. Some L2 students of a language are not taught about a subtle difference in the pronunciation of similar-looking words, so they will pronounce them in the same way. However, in careful pronunciation, there would be a difference. This situation is described with the words:
They fail to establish a difference on which no stress is laid in language education.
At first sight, it means to me in this context:
They do not pronounce the words differently because they are not taught to, or not insistantly enough. (Nothing is said about whether they may have noticed the difference.)
Could that sentence also mean that they do not perceive/notice/realize the
difference rather than they do not reproduce it?
Well, the net effect on language education for these students is the same(hello... i just found this today.)
in both cases. But I want to understand in the first place what the author
wrote.
“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this correct?
i agree with the dictionary-def and not you impression, but maybe often it's used casually in an arrogant (condescending) way.... the writer says something like [Students fail to realize....] and the writer is (metaphorically) shaking his head.That is, in addition to “try to do without success” and “be unable to do” the
meaning is sometimes “should do but don't do”.
what's the particular example here?The question is which voiceless plosives are – or should be – aspirated in
Swahili. The context is:
As a matter of fact, there appears to be a general tendency to connect aspiration with stress and with initial position, e.g. [...]
The blurring of the contrast between aspirate and non-aspirate is consequently probably ascribable to the following causes:
(a) [...]
(b) [...]
(c) [...]
(d) the growing influence of the numerous non-native speakers who fail to establish a difference on which no stress is laid in Swahili language education in any case.
(Edgar Polomé: Swahili Language Handbook. Center for Applied Linguistics, Washington, 1967, p. 41)
-- Helmut Richter
On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 5:23:31 PM UTC-7, Hen Hanna wrote:
On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 1:29:15 AM UTC-7, Helmut Richter wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2022, Hen Hanna wrote:
On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 6:16:26 AM UTC-8, Helmut Richter wrote:
I'd need some help in understanding an English sentence which deals with a
language issue. I know each word but it might be to be ambiguous in its
meaning, and native speakers could be of some help.
I start with two idioms before quoting to sentence in its context.
so it seems i 'm agreeing with your impression (after all) for the passage“fail to do sth”: according to COD, it means “try to do without success”,
“be unable to do”. My impression is, however, that it is often used in the
simple meaning “don't do” with no connontaion of an unability. Is this
correct?
The students are NOT (even) trying to make that distinction (Contrast)
but some of them do anyway (by luck, by Knack, by above-average intuition or ability)
Hi, Helmut - I agree with your suppositions.
“Fail to do” can be used as “do not do.” Ex: “She failed to do her homework” can mean she simply did not do her homework. Her failure had nothing to do with intent or ability.
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