• Is this ng really almost completely empty? (Mozilla Thunderbird 60.90.1

    From Dudley Brooks@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 10 13:21:20 2024
    I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

    I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
    contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
    Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

    Is this true??? Is there really nothing in this ng??? Or is this some
    bug in Thunderbird.

    Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is still
    here.

    Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng reader.

    --
    Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
    Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
    San Francisco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Barnett@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 10 15:50:58 2024
    T24gOC8xMC8yMDI0IDI6MjEgUE0sIER1ZGxleSBCcm9va3Mgd3JvdGU6DQo+IEkgY2xpY2tl ZCBvbiBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgaGVyZSBhbmQgZ290IGEgIk5vdCBGb3VuZCIgZXJyb3IuDQo+IA0K PiBJIHRoZW4gY2xpY2tlZCBvbiAiRGVsZXRlIEFsbCBFeHBpcmVkIE1lc3NhZ2VzIiAuLi4g YW5kIHRoZSBlbnRpcmUgbmcgDQo+IGNvbnRlbnRzIGRpc2FwcGVhcmVkIGV4Y2VwdCBmb3Ig dGhlIHNpbmdsZSBwb3N0ICJMTE0gYW5kIFByb2xvZywgYSANCj4gTWFycmlhZ2UgaW4gSGVh dmVuPyAoUmU6IDQyIGlzIHRoZSBhbnN3ZXIpIiAhISENCj4gDQo+IElzIHRoaXMgdHJ1ZT8/ P8KgIElzIHRoZXJlIHJlYWxseSBub3RoaW5nIGluIHRoaXMgbmc/Pz/CoCBPciBpcyB0aGlz IHNvbWUgDQo+IGJ1ZyBpbiBUaHVuZGVyYmlyZC4NCj4gDQo+IFNvbWVvbmUgcGxlYXNlIHBv c3QgYW5kIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IHRoYXQgTm8sIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgcmVhbGx5IGlzIHN0aWxs IA0KPiBoZXJlLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlbiBJIGNhbiB0cnkgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCB0aGUgVEIg YnVnIG9yIHN3aXRjaCB0byBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCBuZyByZWFkZXIuDQoNClRCIHdvcmtzIGZp bmUgd2l0aCB0aGlzIG5ld3Nncm91cC4gVGhpcyBmb3J1bSBpcyBvbmUgdGhhdCBvbmx5IHNl ZXMgDQpwb3N0cyB3aGVuIHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB0byBzYXkuIEFsbW9zdCBhbGwg b2YgdGhlIHRyYWZmaWMgY29uc2lzdHMgDQpvZiBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbnMgb2Ygc3ltYm9saWMg c3lzdGVtcycgdGVzdHMgYW5kIHN0YXRpc3RpY3MgdGhhdCBjb21wYXJlIA0KdGhlc2Ugc3lz dGVtcy4gVGhlcmUgaXMgYWxzbyBzb21lIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIG9mIHdoYXQgaXMgdGVzdGVk IGFuZCBob3cgDQphcyB3ZWxsIGFzIHN5c3RlbSBpZGlvc3luY3Jhc2llcyB0aGF0IG1heSBj YXVzZSBhbm9tYWxvdXMgcmVzdWx0cy4NCg0KUnVubmluZyB0ZXN0cyBpcyBsYWJvciBpbnRl bnNpdmUgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZSB0aW1lIGdhcHMgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGVzZSANCnJ1bnMgdG8g dGhpbmsgYWJvdXQgaG93IHRvIGdyb3cgdGhlIHRlc3Qgc3VpdGUuIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCB0 aGVyZSBpcyBubyANCnBvaW50IGluIHJ1bm5pbmcgYW5kIHJlcG9ydGluZyB1bmxlc3MgZWl0 aGVyIHNvbWUgc3lzdGVtcyBoYXZlIHJlbGVhc2VkIA0KbmV3ZXIgdmVyc2lvbnMgb3IgdGhl IHRlc3RpbmcgaXRzZWxmIGhhcyBiZWVuIHVwZGF0ZWQuDQoNCkV2ZXJ5IG9uY2UgaW4gYSB3 aGlsZSwgb25lIG9mIHRoZSB0ZXN0ZXJzIGVpdGhlciByZWxlYXNlcyBuZXcgcmVzdWx0cyAN CmFuZC8gb3IgYXNrcyBmb3IgY29tbWVudHMgdGhlbiBhbiBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBjb252ZXJz YXRpb24gd2lsbCBmb2xsb3cuIA0KT2NjYXNpb25hbGx5IGFuIGludGVybG9wZXIgc3VjaCBh cyB5b3Ugb3IgSSB3aWxsIHBvcCBpbiBhbmQgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSANCmxpdHRsZSBmbHVycnkg b2YgbWVzc2FnZXMuIE90aGVyd2lzZSwgdGhpcyBmb3J1bSBpcyBoZXJlIGZvciBhIGRlZGlj YXRlZCANCmdyb3VwIG9mIHBlb3BsZSB3aG8gYXJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgYW5kIGtub3dsZWRn ZWFibGUgaW4gc3ltYm9saWMgDQptYXRoZW1hdGljcyB3aGVuIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBzb21ldGhp bmcgdG8gc2F5Lg0KLS0gDQpKZWZmIEJhcm5ldHQNCg0K

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dudley Brooks@21:1/5 to Jeff Barnett on Sat Aug 10 15:40:49 2024
    On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

    I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
    contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
    Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

    Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
    some bug in Thunderbird.

    Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
    still here.

    Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
    reader.

    TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
    posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic consists
    of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics that compare
    these systems. There is also some discussions of what is tested and how
    as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause anomalous results.

    Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between these
    runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition, there is no point in running and reporting unless either some systems have released
    newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.

    Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
    and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and there is a
    little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and knowledgeable in symbolic
    mathematics when they have something to say.

    That's fine. That's why I'm interested in the ng.

    But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone posts.

    It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!

    My experience was this:

    Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.

    I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
    old postings. (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)

    I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.

    For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I either
    read it or click it Unread.

    I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large number
    of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.

    Today I did exactly that ... except ...

    After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed interesting,
    so I clicked on it to read it ...

    ... and it gave an Expired message.

    So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...

    ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message which
    I saw above! The entire message list pane was blank except for that one message!

    I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not. It
    was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!

    So I ask you. When you look at this ng right now, how many messages are
    you seeing?

    Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
    mention above, my question, and your answer. NOTHING ELSE!


    --
    Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
    Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
    San Francisco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dudley Brooks@21:1/5 to Jeff Barnett on Sat Aug 10 16:37:35 2024
    On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

    I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire
    ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog,
    a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

    Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
    some bug in Thunderbird.

    Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
    still here.

    Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
    reader.

    TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
    posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
    consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
    that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what is
    tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
    anomalous results.

    Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
    these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
    there is no point in running and reporting unless either some systems
    have released newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.

    Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
    and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will
    follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and
    there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here
    for a dedicated group of people who are interested and knowledgeable
    in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.

    That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.

    But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone
    posts.

    It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!

    My experience was this:

    Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.

    I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
    old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)

    I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.

    For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
    either read it or click it Unread.

    I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
    number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.

    Today I did exactly that ... except ...

    After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed interesting,
    so I clicked on it to read it ...

    ... and it gave an Expired message.

    So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...

    ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
    which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except for
    that one message!

    I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.  It
    was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!

    So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
    are you seeing?

    Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
    mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!

    I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
    Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups and
    news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able to see
    and when to delete msg copies on your machine.

    Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
    group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What YOU
    will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and the
    retention policies you have imposed.

    Ah! That makes sense. I didn't know about TB's retention settings -- I
    never knowingly made any setting.

    I'll check it out. Thanks!


    --
    Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
    Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
    San Francisco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Barnett@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 10 17:32:14 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dudley Brooks@21:1/5 to Dudley Brooks on Sat Aug 10 16:56:13 2024
    On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

    I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire
    ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog,
    a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

    Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this >>>>> some bug in Thunderbird.

    Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
    still here.

    Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
    reader.

    TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
    posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
    consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
    that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what
    is tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
    anomalous results.

    Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
    these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
    there is no point in running and reporting unless either some
    systems have released newer versions or the testing itself has been
    updated.

    Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
    results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation
    will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in
    and there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is
    here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and
    knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.

    That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.

    But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone
    posts.

    It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!

    My experience was this:

    Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.

    I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
    old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)

    I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.

    For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
    either read it or click it Unread.

    I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
    number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.

    Today I did exactly that ... except ...

    After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
    interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...

    ... and it gave an Expired message.

    So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...

    ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
    which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except for
    that one message!

    I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.
    It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!

    So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
    are you seeing?

    Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
    mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!

    I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
    Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups and
    news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able to see
    and when to delete msg copies on your machine.

    Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
    group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What YOU
    will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and the
    retention policies you have imposed.

    Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings -- I never knowingly made any setting.

    I'll check it out.  Thanks!

    *All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
    Delete Anything.

    However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
    mostly expired messages.

    So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my ng
    source.


    --
    Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
    Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
    San Francisco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dudley Brooks@21:1/5 to Dudley Brooks on Sat Aug 10 16:58:44 2024
    On 8/10/24 4:56 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

    On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

    I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

    I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire >>>>>> ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and
    Prolog, a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

    Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this >>>>>> some bug in Thunderbird.

    Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
    still here.

    Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different
    ng reader.

    TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
    posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
    consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
    that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what
    is tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
    anomalous results.

    Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
    these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
    there is no point in running and reporting unless either some
    systems have released newer versions or the testing itself has been
    updated.

    Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
    results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation
    will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop
    in and there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum
    is here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and
    knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say. >>>>
    That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.

    But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often
    anyone posts.

    It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!

    My experience was this:

    Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.

    I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number
    of old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)

    I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.

    For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
    either read it or click it Unread.

    I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
    number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.

    Today I did exactly that ... except ...

    After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
    interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...

    ... and it gave an Expired message.

    So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...

    ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
    which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except
    for that one message!

    I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.
    It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!

    So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
    are you seeing?

    Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
    mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!

    I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
    Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups
    and news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able
    to see and when to delete msg copies on your machine.

    Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
    group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What
    YOU will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and
    the retention policies you have imposed.

    Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings --
    I never knowingly made any setting.

    I'll check it out.  Thanks!

    *All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
    Delete Anything.

    However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
    mostly expired messages.

    So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my ng
    source.

    I accidentally hit Send too early, before asking recommendations for a
    news server, if any, with a longer retention policy.

    For $$ reasons at the moment (please don't ask) it has to be a free
    service ... which I guess severely limits my choices. Oh, well ...

    --
    Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
    Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
    San Francisco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Barnett@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 10 19:26:53 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)