• Off-Line Microsoft Excel 2016 Help Files :-)

    From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 03:55:53 2023
    At work, at the area that I spent most of my time (and do most of the thinking), there is no internet access. Everywhere else in the god damn
    plant internet access is plenty, but with _only_ that exception. You
    should either be a genius to remember thousands of different little
    facts to do your job right (like many unbelievably smart and bright
    Hispanics that work there do), or be an old man like myself in need of
    using Excel to handle some of the stuff I want to do in the fastest and
    most accurate way _possible_. Cause those ideas that are now just "possibilities" go beyond my position responsibilities.

    So I took my little laptop to work. It has Excel 2016 on it now. Most
    stuff I did on Excel was on the 2010 version which came with a nice near-comprehensive offline help. But what do you know, last week I found
    out this 2006 version only has access to online help! Hehe :) How
    stupid of Microsoft - the "engineers" in it must've at last destroyed
    the last remnants of a physicist's mind behind the whole endeavor. You
    know that Microsoft became Microsoft not so much for Bill Gates'
    character behind it, but for his physicist partner's, don't you. The guy
    about whom Gates stays childishly silent all the time :) But he died.
    Let me check when. Perhaps the "engineers" dared to do such offense only
    after he died. Let me see..

    No, Allen died 2018. I don't know about the 2013 version. But 2010
    version had seen it necessary to have off-line help available and a good
    one too, but 2016 version for some second-world "engineer"ish reasons
    was denied of it. Or perhaps Allen was too sick or inactive already then
    to prevent such decisions. I don't know.

    Anyway, coffee is ready, so I come to the point. Any of you know of a
    source to download that off-line help as a module by itself? Perhaps
    (i.e. ideally) as a chm file? I think if I remember it right 2010 had a
    chm file format for its help-files.

    Google doesn't work much anymore. I spent 15 min or so and couldn't find
    what I needed. It has really become inferior to some foreign search
    engines, especially when it has a tendency to limit your access based on
    what it thinks it can sell you. Disgusting. But I don't have time now to
    see which foreign engine is better and go from there. A usenet query
    could work faster.



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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Tue Aug 15 03:55:55 2023
    On 8/14/2023 3:55 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    At work, at the area that I spent most of my time (and do most of the thinking), there is no internet access. Everywhere else in the god damn
    plant internet access is plenty, but with _only_ that exception. You
    should either be a genius to remember thousands of different little
    facts to do your job right (like many unbelievably smart and bright
    Hispanics that work there do), or be an old man like myself in need of
    using Excel to handle some of the stuff I want to do in the fastest and
    most accurate way _possible_. Cause those ideas that are now just "possibilities" go beyond my position responsibilities.

    So I took my little laptop to work. It has Excel 2016 on it now. Most
    stuff I did on Excel was on the 2010 version which came with a nice near-comprehensive offline help. But what do you know, last week I found
    out this 2006 version only has access to online help! Hehe :)  How
    stupid of Microsoft - the "engineers" in it must've at last destroyed
    the last remnants of a physicist's mind behind the whole endeavor. You
    know that Microsoft became Microsoft not so much for Bill Gates'
    character behind it, but for his physicist partner's, don't you. The guy about whom Gates stays childishly silent all the time :) But he died.
    Let me check when. Perhaps the "engineers" dared to do such offense only after he died. Let me see..

    No, Allen died 2018. I don't know about the 2013 version. But 2010
    version had seen it necessary to have off-line help available and a good
    one too, but 2016 version for some second-world "engineer"ish reasons
    was denied of it. Or perhaps Allen was too sick or inactive already then
    to prevent such decisions. I don't know.

    Anyway, coffee is ready, so I come to the point. Any of you know of a
    source to download that off-line help as a module by itself? Perhaps
    (i.e. ideally) as a chm file? I think if I remember it right 2010 had a
    chm file format for its help-files.

    Google doesn't work much anymore. I spent 15 min or so and couldn't find
    what I needed. It has really become inferior to some foreign search
    engines, especially when it has a tendency to limit your access based on
    what it thinks it can sell you. Disgusting. But I don't have time now to
    see which foreign engine is better and go from there. A usenet query
    could work faster.





    Hmm.. yep. Nobody here has a clue. You prefer to have idle-talk about "Einstein", don't you. You know, the hairy old man you heard of once or
    twice at home on your TVs decades back.

    I've not known anyone with a background in physics who didn't seriously
    at some point begin using Excel or some other spreadsheet with
    computation ability towards a MULTITUDE of issues and problems which
    they had to deal with. Even in mid 1980s some in graduate school
    resorted to Lotus 1 2 3, or Macintosh Excel (expensive!) for their
    homework problems and a few even for their own projects (certainly not
    me though). It was much faster to invert a bad ass matrix or convert
    them to diagonal or tridiagonal form with them in 10 minutes than
    writing fortran programs and have them run on school's computer. But not
    me, I wouldn't risk a black box.

    By the time I left school, everybody was using spreadsheets for a good
    part of their computations. Lotus 1 2 3 lost to Excel eventually.
    Remeber, the driving force behind it was a physicist while Lotus was
    written by an MIT math guy. So Lotus, as great as it was, got to become
    history around here. And it must've been so elsewhere too, in any
    university with a good physics department. Otherwise you'd still see
    Lotus 1 2 3 everywhere along Excel.

    My coffee is brewed and ready. Just wante to say that this thread
    indicates that not a single one of you have had serious physics in your backgrounds; are worth not much more than trash in this newsgroup :)



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  • From David Dalton@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Tue Aug 15 11:34:07 2023
    XPost: microsoft.public.excel, microsoft.public.excel.misc, microsoft.public.excel.newusers

    On Aug 14, 2023, Physfitfreak wrote on sci.physics
    (in article <ubcq6o$2uj4$1@solani.org>):

    At work, at the area that I spent most of my time (and do most of the thinking), there is no internet access. Everywhere else in the god damn
    plant internet access is plenty, but with _only_ that exception. You
    should either be a genius to remember thousands of different little
    facts to do your job right (like many unbelievably smart and bright
    Hispanics that work there do), or be an old man like myself in need of
    using Excel to handle some of the stuff I want to do in the fastest and
    most accurate way _possible_. Cause those ideas that are now just "possibilities" go beyond my position responsibilities.

    So I took my little laptop to work. It has Excel 2016 on it now. Most
    stuff I did on Excel was on the 2010 version which came with a nice near-comprehensive offline help. But what do you know, last week I found
    out this 2016 version only has access to online help! Hehe :) How
    stupid of Microsoft - the "engineers" in it must've at last destroyed
    the last remnants of a physicist's mind behind the whole endeavor. You
    know that Microsoft became Microsoft not so much for Bill Gates'
    character behind it, but for his physicist partner's, don't you. The guy about whom Gates stays childishly silent all the time :) But he died.
    Let me check when. Perhaps the "engineers" dared to do such offense only after he died. Let me see..

    No, Allen died 2018. I don't know about the 2013 version. But 2010
    version had seen it necessary to have off-line help available and a good
    one too, but 2016 version for some second-world "engineer"ish reasons
    was denied of it. Or perhaps Allen was too sick or inactive already then
    to prevent such decisions. I don't know.

    Anyway, coffee is ready, so I come to the point. Any of you know of a
    source to download that off-line help as a module by itself? Perhaps
    (i.e. ideally) as a chm file? I think if I remember it right 2010 had a
    chm file format for its help-files.

    Google doesn't work much anymore. I spent 15 min or so and couldn't find
    what I needed. It has really become inferior to some foreign search
    engines, especially when it has a tendency to limit your access based on
    what it thinks it can sell you. Disgusting. But I don't have time now to
    see which foreign engine is better and go from there. A usenet query
    could work faster.

    You could try the newsgroup microsoft.public.excel ?

    --
    https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page) "This could be the final breath; This is life and death;
    This is hard rock and water; Out here between wind and flame;
    Between tears and elation; Lies a secret nation" (Ron Hynes)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 16 04:08:41 2023
    Still no input. Dead boobs, you are :) But have just ran the coffee
    machine and have two or three minutes to blow cause I just remembered
    someone from those days that had not thought of in years and years and
    it's opened a can of memories for me straight down from mid 1980s
    graduate school.

    But I think I told this story in usenet. Either in this forum or the
    Iranian forum. I don't want to dig that and find out either. Not worth
    it. So I just jot down what I still remember of that cause I may read it
    myself years later and enjoy :) Hehe :) Like everything else I blog
    here, right?

    In mid 1980s I had a neighbor for about 3 or four years who was also
    from Iran. This guy (and his wife and two little sons - later a third
    one as well, a little girl) lived across the alley from my place and was
    an Environmental Science doctorate student in the same school I was
    attending. The "Environmental Science" was back then a new department,
    not all universities had that, and it was also a new name for a newly
    emerged scientific need that these days is better described as "biotech research." That was what he was doing there in any case.

    A few of the physics department professors also taught some courses in
    there. It was just a grad school and did pure scientific work which
    often required physics mastery of some degree. Some of them had to set
    up and build newly devised equipments and instruments to check their
    ideas and would soon face physics issues. Putting solar energy into use
    was one of their field of study. Others, (there were many other fields!)
    were developing better ways to measure various contaminants in soil,
    especially lead, but also sulfates, etc, and yet others were devising
    clever ways to clean up such huge messes which for decades before the
    year 1970 (year EPA was formed) businesses and government itself had
    recklessly created by their own half-assed thought out and concocted
    ways (injecting waste material in deep wells, spreading on the surface,
    burning in piles, even dumping in the rivers, etc).

    Anyway, a lot of physics would get involved one way or another. When one
    say "environment" it is like saying the whole world :) The science of
    the whole world! Including the natural and man-made ones.

    So now businesses, especially real estate, themselves were pressing for information! Environmental issues had begun affecting them in some big
    ways. That's why EPA had been created to begin with. Work needed to be
    done, serious and extensive scientific work.

    What this friend was working on had to do with river beds and a way to
    measure some contaminant (I don't remember which) in there. And I don't
    know what else he had to do about it. We were both extremely busy and
    didn't talk much of what we were doing in our own projects.

    Ok, time to take off. "Later" then, you stupid "Jim Pennino" look-alike
    mofos :)



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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 17 04:30:32 2023
    Coffee is brewing and right now I got nothing better to do for about 5
    or 10 minutes. Here we go. So as I said before, a lot of work needed to
    be done only on the chemical aspects of mess they'd created, let alone
    the biological effects on the ecosystem about which like half of the
    force in that department was busy doing something, and of course
    businesses didn't want to pick up the tab. A realtor didn't want to pay scientists to get those answers for the land he was trying to sell
    despite pressure from would be customers to know just what the heck had happened on and around that land in the prior decades. Buying land that
    sounded so straightforward and innocent before, now was a bit
    complicated, and getting the answers to their questions was now as
    critical to these would-be-buyers as what they did for their general
    health, something that at times could even threaten their lives. But you wouldn't think a realtor would pay for such expenses, would you.

    Neither did the government! They didn't want to pay the scientific
    businesses huge sums of money to find all those answers for the public.
    So one way or another the push from buyers forced the businesses to make government do something about it, and they in turn of course decided to
    get the answers almost free of charge by creating "environmental
    science" departments in schools around the USA, and have the poor
    students do the job so that themselves and businesses just pocket all
    that money as before, even now that they didn't quite deserve it.

    So the work was done all by such science departments in universities. By
    the way, "Engineers" couldn't do jack shit about it of course. There is
    not one "cook" in the word that could find out exactly how a certain
    food chemical can affect your health. A "cook" is just a cook.

    This friend was from Esfahan, and with that strong strange accent even
    his English which he'd learned very fast (and quite well) had an
    Esfahani tint to it. He hadn't gotten rid of his native intonations yet
    when speaking in English. Also, he practiced Islam to the best that
    could be done in USA. His education here in Dallas was being fully
    funded by an Islamic foundation in Esfahan. He had obligations to finish
    his work in certain period of time and, immediately after, go back there
    to Esfahan. And he was given a few social religious responsibilities
    alongside his studies here. A few other Iranians here simply referred to
    him as, "the Hezbollahi guy" while this was really not true. Indeed he
    didn't belong to any organization or groups, political or religious. But
    the scholarship he had obtained, also imparted duties other than
    studying on him. Personally he was a heck of a bright young guy with
    eyes open to anything in the world. We became friends very fast in fact,
    just shortly after he'd moved into that neighboring unit. I was lucky he
    did. But he was to some extent lucky too. I was not just anyone. Past or present. In Iran or in USA.


    Got to go. "Later", you mulish little stupes. Fuck you :(









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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 18 05:04:36 2023
    Ok, back to here. Yes, coffee is brewing and I got nothing to kill the
    time with right now.

    Nah, that's a lie :-) I am indeed waiting for my large intestine to
    become active for a nice dump. It is part and parcel of a diet of eating
    once every two days. This has been frequently part of the reason for my
    coming to usenet for I don't know how long now, at least I begin that
    with such intention. A year and a half? Yes, that's the right time-scales.

    See, I _would_, still, share such moments of mine with sick round little
    turd rolling pieces like you. So benefit from it you "Jim Pennino"
    look-alike _lobotomized_ fucks. The zits you are, I can still utilize
    you in helping me take a dump! How's that for a "good morning"? Suck it up.

    I do enough exercise, so the important part it plays toward such
    "cardinal" goal is already played and over. Now to get to it, I should
    in fact divert my attention from it and come to sci.physics and just
    relax a few minutes. It often works. White muscles sometimes need to be
    left alone to do their jobs.

    Ok, so again this friend I was talking about. The amount of money he
    regularly got from that foundation in Esfahan was plush! And this was
    while Iran-Iraq war was still going. I or other Iranian students
    couldn't dream of that level of support, but his family's Islamic way of
    life wouldn't show such comfort to outsiders. You'd have to see, for
    instance, what they ate in their home to get a glimpse of it. They
    invited me many times to excellent Iranian dinners the wife had cooked
    and prepared. She was never present downstairs at the table with us of
    course. It was just him, his kids all over him and everywhere, and
    myself, and rarely one of his friends from his mosque activity. Once two
    of them. The friends he had there, a few were Iranian but there were
    Arabs and at least one Pakestani among them too. In one occasion an
    Egyptian was present at the dinner table. We all ate similar dishes and
    vastly enjoyed such slight variations in the cuisines.

    But, point is, the food was absolutely the best each and every time I
    was there. Not an iota of consideration for cost _or_ extent of effort
    in making them were made. This was while that woman was an extremely
    busy person with education responsibilities of her own (she was writing something, I don't even remember in what field and subject). Yet she
    created these perfect Iranian dishes of various kinds, and an occasional
    local Esfahani dish as well among them which I was experiencing for the
    first time and still loved them. There was a chance she was figuring me
    out, "preparing" me, for a possible marriage with her sister or someone,
    which later must've convinced her that I might not be exactly the match
    she'd thought. Nobody could control me in those years. Absolutely nobody
    but myself. I was bold and unmanageable. What managed me was my own
    sense of common sense and deep moral and intellectual structures.

    In Tehran, my family was upper middle class, some said higher level than
    that, but the rest said just upper middle class, yet we enjoyed food
    like that only on occasions. An important guest must've been coming, or
    an endeared relative, etc. Otherwise my mother wouldn't bother to go
    through that much trouble. We ate well but eating well on one side and
    having best of Iranian dishes on the other aren't always one and the
    same thing, baby :)

    Recently, a genius Iranian manager (I think they're labeled, "systems
    manager") who had served JPL for god knows how long, from before I came
    to USA, in various positions, including sensitive and exciting ones,
    died at the age of 77 after an unfortunate accident in his own home. If
    you check out his facebook pictures and ignore the crap related to his political activities, I'd say you'd see more pictures of good Iranian
    dishes than photos of him and his dear ones or work related stuff :-) He
    was from Shiraz, and his dishes included some from the Shirazi set of
    cuisines as well. His name was "Firouz Naderi". روحت شاد

    Ok, "later", you mofo bastards. Lie down in your beds in the
    institutional care buildings and die fast. Even "lobotomy" cannot
    describe the crap load of filth that each one of you are!

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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 19 05:47:35 2023
    Another run at this subject. That friend from 1980s. He hated to come to
    my place, but this was only on the account of his wife, because he'd
    pick up cat hair and later would get scorned by his doubly religious
    wife; it made her forced to clean their entire two-story two bedroom
    apartment literally inch squared by inch squared :-) Hahhahahah :)

    Some Ayatollah's "Islamic Life Handbooks" (توضیح المسائل) did not allow
    one to conduct prayers when cat hair was present at the spot, but some
    other Ayatollahs did allow it. Khomeyni was still alive then, and his
    handbook did _not_ allow it and she, the wife, followed Khomeyni as her "Marja". The husband, my friend, followed another Ayatollah which
    allowed (i.e. tolerated) cat hair in the house even right where you
    prayed. Despite this issue, this danger to be exact, on occasions he
    came to my place anyway. It could be that he had on those occasions a
    chance to lie to his wife about where he had been :)

    Holy fucking Lotus! At last a chance to come to what I blabbered all
    this for.

    One of the times the friend was in my apartment, it was to show his
    Lotus 1 2 3 on his pc to me. This is how my mentioning Lotus earlier
    made me remember him. He did so because he knew I despised stuff like
    that, where one didn't know how the computations were being done and
    could not bet his marbles on it. He'd kept telling me that it worked flawlessly, and I had kept ridiculing him for that :)

    So he was determined to prove himself correct about it. He hauls his
    heavy pc and monitor from his office to my house and we sit around my
    table after cleaning the top as best as I can from cat hairs. He fires
    it up and brings Lotus on and asks me to check it out. I went through
    the menu and was outraged. It even had matrix inversion and
    diagonalizing options to it! How dared a software on a piece of shit
    equipment like that (an AT 286 with "coprocessor") claim to be able to
    do that! The smallest computer I had worked with till then was a VAX/VMS minicomputer and a pdp-11, and of course the huge IBM central computer
    of the university. So I gave him the simplest 3 by 3 matrix to try to
    invert. He carefully puts the numbers in and hits a key and within a
    couple of seconds the inverted matrix is displayed.

    I say, "Ok, how big a matrix can this thing handle?" He didn't know. So
    I write down the nastiest matrix I could concoct (I knew quite a bit
    about what made matrices difficult to invert from my state of the art
    numerical methods grad courses in same school, where I was later also
    the TA for them!) and tell him, "Give THIS to it now, and see what it
    does!" He very carefully enters the numbers and after he is finished he
    hits a key and the screen goes to "waiting" mode.

    We waited for a minute or so and nothing happened. So gradually began
    speaking of other stuff and almost forgot about the Lotus working there.
    Then after about some time that could not have been more than 5 minutes
    total, Lotus comes back on screen with the inverted matrix!... What the
    fuck? "Has it given a solution?" he says yes. I say, "Bullshit!"
    "Impossible!". Then I immediately after said, "Ok, multiply it by the
    original matrix that I gave you and we'll see if this is correct or
    not." So he again takes his time and enters everything in and in just a
    few seconds the resulting matrix pops up. A unit matrix! (or the
    "identity matrix" I think it was called). It had successfully inverted
    the worst matrix I could think of. In about 5 minutes!

    That's when I found out what the utility value of such a software was.
    It was a black box alright, but it still did a mighty job of what you
    asked it do. Lotus 1 2 3 indeed had been the main reason academics back
    then bought a pc to begin with, none of the other crap that would work
    on it came even close. Yes, programmers also had a ball writing and
    running programs on it for the first time in their lives and in their
    own homes and offices, but Lotus 1 2 3 served a thousand times more
    people than just programmers among the academics; i.e., academics had a thousand times more use for the Lotus compared with the computer's
    ability to compile and run your programs. To them, a pc was the Lotus.
    But for me, that was the moment, in 1987 or 88 I think, that I had
    become aware of this fact. About how crucial to many, this "Lotus 1 2 3"
    could be.

    You cocksucker wannabes of physfitfreak don't understand me when I come
    here and speak of Excel. You're utterly illiterate. You're of the type
    of Americans who fart in the wind and spit on the ground and call that a
    day. These lines aren't for you mofos.





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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sat Aug 19 06:09:37 2023
    On 8/19/2023 5:47 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    He did so because he knew I despised stuff like
    that, where one didn't know how the computations were being done and
    could not bet his marbles on it. He'd kept telling me that it worked flawlessly, and I had kept ridiculing him for that :)


    Heck in our own programs in physics department we had to even take
    account of machine epsilon of the particular machine we used, so we
    could have a handle on exactly what was happening. I don't remember,
    ever, I ran any of my summation subroutines in my program without adding
    back into it the lost information caused by the machine's epsilon in
    those summations. We had to be this exact, i.e. much more accurate than
    what came in computation books and resources, even in a simple
    summation. So you can imagine how a totally unknown little black box
    would look like to someone like me when it claimed to compute stuff like
    that!

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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sat Aug 19 06:15:29 2023
    On 8/19/2023 6:09 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    On 8/19/2023 5:47 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    He did so because he knew I despised stuff like that, where one didn't
    know how the computations were being done and could not bet his
    marbles on it. He'd kept telling me that it worked flawlessly, and I
    had kept ridiculing him for that :)


    Heck in our own programs in physics department we had to even take
    account of machine epsilon of the particular machine we used, so we
    could have a handle on exactly what was happening. I don't remember,
    ever, I ran any of my summation subroutines in my program without adding
    back into it the lost information caused by the machine's epsilon in
    those summations. We had to be this exact, i.e. much more accurate than
    what came in computation books and resources, even in a simple
    summation. So you can imagine how a totally unknown little black box
    would look like to someone like me when it claimed to compute stuff like that!





    Earlier, or even concurrent with Lotus 1 2 3, other machines had had
    similar successes in their sales to the academics for the exact same
    reasons. The spreadsheets they had on was the best thing about those
    computers. And these academics were from various departments, not just
    physics.

    This friend had told me again and again that he had never seen a flaw in
    the working of his Lotus 1 2 3 :) I wasn't so sure what type of use he
    was putting it into. But when at last I attended his dissertation
    defense, his diagrams all had tell-tales of substantial statistical
    analyses, regression analyses, stuff that were all done by that Lotus 1
    2 3 on his AT microcomputer.

    He had paid a whopping $3000 for the computer (second hand) to another
    Iranian who had earlier graduated from same department and was returning
    to Iran, just so that he could use the Lotus 1 2 3 on it for his own
    project :-)



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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sat Aug 19 07:14:42 2023
    On 8/19/2023 5:47 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    Some Ayatollah's "Islamic Life Handbooks" (توضیح المسائل) did not allow
    one to conduct prayers when cat hair was present at the spot, but some
    other Ayatollahs did allow it. Khomeyni was still alive then, and his handbook did _not_ allow it and she, the wife, followed Khomeyni as her "Marja". The husband, my friend, followed another Ayatollah which
    allowed (i.e. tolerated) cat hair in the house even right where you
    prayed. Despite this issue, this danger to be exact, on occasions he
    came to my place anyway. It could be that he had on those occasions a
    chance to lie to his wife about where he had been :)


    One important note before I forget. These little discrepancies between different Ayatollah's instructions weren't mere idiosyncratic bullshit
    among them!... This is important to know. This was so because Shiite
    Islam is an entirely different religion compared to what you backward Cro-Magnon oddities can conceptualize as "religion".

    In the practice of Shiite Islam, every little rule is a derived one!
    Very painstakingly and carefully _derived_. That's why these
    discrepancies often pointed to deeper icebergs laying below, i.e. the "Morality" level concepts from which the "feghh" (jurisprudence) is
    _derived_.

    And these morality concepts, in turn, each and every one of them, were
    again _derived_ from yet another underlying set of concepts (the
    "Kalam"). The latter, being the study of foundation of Islam and the interpretations of it made from what Quran says on one side, and what
    Mohammad believed them to mean on the other side.

    I know this stuff is above your brutes' pin heads and understandings.
    But thought I'd mention that so you wouldn't think treating a "cat hair"
    can only be about this or that Ayatollah's personal little mannerism or "choice." No. Such differences often were important to consider for the followers of those Ayatollahs.



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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sun Aug 20 06:46:38 2023
    On 8/19/2023 7:14 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    And these morality concepts, in turn, each and every one of them, were
    again _derived_ from yet another underlying set of concepts (the
    "Kalam"). The latter, being the study of foundation of Islam and the interpretations of it made from what Quran says on one side, and what Mohammad believed them to mean on the other side.



    In fact, in his last annual sermon he gave before his death, Mohammad
    told the large audience before him something like:

    "Don't just listen to me. Your source is Quran and what I did, so
    you and all the future generations should continue this study after I'm
    not here anymore. Keep finding out what Quran is telling you because
    after me no other prophet will come!"

    - Mohammad,

    Not exactly his words, but _exactly_ what he conveyed to that last
    audience. He knew he wouldn't see the next yearly gathering. In that
    sermon he mostly stressed the concept of ownership and trust, which in
    Islam is a fundamental principle (yes, to this day Islamic centers are
    more trustworthy than your "Swiss Banks" about your possessions). But at
    the end of the sermon he let the audience know how they should handle
    Islam after he was gone, as I said above.

    Now how about an exact translation of that mighty last words :)

    "I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example. Keep
    studying both and you will never go astray."

    - Mohammad

    Well, Shiites being the scholarly side of Islam from day one (led by
    Ali) kept studying and studying both for more than a thousand years and
    the result is what I tried to describe in one paragraph in my last
    message in this thread about "cat hair." Others, the majority of Arabs
    of Arabian Peninsula, being an extremely loyal people throughout
    history, didn't quite dare to touch anything out of their own. They kept
    their interpretation of Islam, the Quran and Mohammad's example, and
    only followed it at the exact form it had back then, thus preserving
    this gem of the ideas and collection of concepts to this very day. The
    latter are the Sonnis of today :)

    Shiites of course believe both themselves and Sonnis are necessary to be
    and continue what they do. But Sonnis, by the choice they made to leave everything intact, often do not agree with Shiites' interpretation of
    Quran and Mohammad's words. And it is a natural and essentially benign situation. But that doesn't mean it cannot get tough sometimes :)

    Now how about the very last message at the end of that sermon? Hmm..

    "All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and
    those to others again; and may the last ones, understand my words better
    than those who listen to me directly today."

    - Mohammad's last message

    Oh, boy... Didn't we Shiites understand his words "better than those who listened to him directly that day."

    That's why in Shiite Islam every rule is a derived one.









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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sun Aug 20 08:04:33 2023
    On 8/20/2023 6:46 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    That's why in Shiite Islam every rule is a derived one.



    Yep, including the rule about "cat hair" hehe :)

    But the thing is, these rules are sometimes different from Ayatollah to Ayatollah depending on their own works done in Kalam and Akhlagh and
    Feghh, plus their own aptitudes and analytical power and understandings
    had their imprints on their results. More than one school of thoughts
    have developed between them. So a religious Iranian often has to study
    more than one Ayatollah's works and ideas before adopting him as a
    consultant in life. In my friend's case, his choice was a different one (Ayatollah Montazeri) than his own wife's choice of Khomeyni :) Imagine
    the situation... Hahahahaah :)

    Imagine the push and pull of how and what to educate their kids with
    which would even be possible to have agreements of both parents. So he
    had a situation like that also, in his house, which he was dealing with confidence and always with a smile.

    Anyway, this friend, was very careful not to pick up cat hair every time
    he stepped into my house. Hahhahhah :-)) I should've put this particular
    blog under a separate one of its own, titled, "The Proverbial Cat Hair."

    Hahahhahhahah :-))

    On another occasion which he actually entered, it was to ask me to
    calculate the correct direction to conduct one's daily prayer in Dallas
    area. For all Moslems in the world, the direction must be towards the
    shortest distance to Mecca. I didn't pay much attention to his request
    right away until I noticed he had made it at various occasions three or
    four times already. Hehe :)

    That night he revealed to me that there has been a dispute between the
    Shiites and the Sonnis in the local area mosque over the correct
    direction. They had ended up praying facing directions that had almost
    45 degree difference between them :-))

    Hahhahahhah :)

    Easy to estimate the degree of tension it'd caused in that mosque,
    calling each other "Kafers", etc, a millennium old push and pull about
    similar issues between them. This matter was kind of acute and important
    to get settled. So I said ok.

    Next, on the Sunday morning before even I get out of the bed I decided
    to not only calculate that particular direction (which I did right there
    in bed), but to write a program in fortran for it which asked for your geographical coordinates to take in, then it computed and gave the
    geographic direction that your prayers should be conducted along. A
    "general purpose" type of thing. The program form of it, I finished like
    a couple of days later.

    Then I walked over to his office in environmental science and asked the
    friend to somehow use that program on his AT pc. He said he didn't have
    fortran compiler on his pc but "could purchase one right away"! I think
    that was like another $700 back in those days!. This guy had money to
    blow. I said what else can run on that AT. He said BASIC. So later I
    went to half-price-books store and surely found a cheap Basic
    programming book second hand, studied it and realized how simple it was,
    yet had the essential powerful features that a program needs. Took it to
    school and converted my fortran program to basic language in no time.
    Then we arranged to transfer the program via modem directly to his AT in
    school using two of those funky things that had a phone receiver set
    downwardly attached to it. We could always borrow them from the computer center.

    Then the night of the same day he rushes to my door again with those
    heavy AT components in his hands, comes in and sets it up. He needed confirmation on the results of it, quite bad! Together we ran the basic
    code on his computer. For the Dallas area sure as hell the correct
    direction proved to be somewhere close to the northeast (as I had
    calculated myself without the codes) which had scared the bejesus out of
    him earlier that evening. He had told the Shiites in the mosque to do
    their prayers along southeast direction! (after looking at a flat map
    and drawing the shortest distance line to mecca)!...

    Still, he implored me to give him more explanation why it had to be
    northeast. He played basketball for exercise in a parking lot nearby,
    where someone had placed a basketball backboard and hoop and net up
    there on the wall. I asked him to bring his basketball ball. He ran and
    fetched it in no time. I drew as accurately as possible the locations of
    Dallas and Mecca on it using geographic coordinates of the two cities,
    then had him look at it from above and various other directions to
    guesstimate the closest path between. The way the two cities are
    located, does indeed make it a bit tricky. He messed with the ball for a
    couple of minutes then used a thread to measure the length of the line
    between them going from Dallas toward northeast, kept that length
    constant, then moved the other end of the thread this way and that way
    to see if he could find an even shorter one to Mecca. There were none!
    Scared red-faced, he realized that indeed the path is northeast from
    Dallas! He took the ball and thanked and ran out!

    Soon of course everybody in the mosque were praying in the correct
    direction, Shiites and Sonnis alike :-) Sonnis had had it correct all
    the time reverting as usual to their age-old tables and calculations
    dating back a thousand years or more. It was the Shiites of Dallas area
    who had fucked it up till I wrote that program :)

    Now that I think about it, I also remember that I'd even told this story
    before in usenet, but most likely in the Iranian forum, not here.




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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sun Aug 20 08:46:04 2023
    On 8/20/2023 8:04 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    That night he revealed to me that there has been a dispute between the Shiites and the Sonnis in the local area mosque over the correct
    direction. They had ended up praying facing directions that had almost
    45 degree difference between them :-))


    Not "almost", I meant to say "at least". The difference indeed was
    closer to 90 degrees, but less than 90 degrees.

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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 20 11:42:06 2023
    On yet another occasion.... Hahahhahhahah :-)) ...

    What can I say, the guy was an interesting guy. A well-rounded, bright traditional Iranian. He hadn't been lobotomized into a "Jim Pennino"
    load of mediocre shit. His horizons were open, and he was fast moving, "migrating" if you know what I mean. The "ATM" in him was in high gear.
    He wasn't a defeated man; neither acted like defeated nor felt he could
    get defeated. No such subservience that you bunch here exhibit, like
    that "Vulva". And he was doing great, on top of it all.

    That's why I keep going back to his case, while I'm at it. Any
    interaction I had with that guy was interesting in some way.

    Another little favor I did for him was to drive a huge truck, almost as
    large as a semi, taking him and his equipments to a river shore south of downtown so he could take samples from a river bed. He was scared of
    driving the thing and university only had that vehicle at that time
    available for him and he couldn't postpone what he wanted to do. I had
    not driven such a large vehicle before in my life, but when I tried it I
    found it a piece of cake to drive. I got my driving license in Tehran,
    after all. If you could do that, you could fly a fucking helicopter in
    Dallas with less than two minutes of training :) I'm not really kidding.
    But he had gotten his in Dallas. So ... Hehe :)

    I remember it was a Saturday and I was getting busy to drive to my
    weekly walking once around the entire perimeter of White Rock Lake. That
    track was almost exactly 10 miles, and each time I did it, when I'd see
    my parked car there I liked what I saw and was happy to sit inside! Yep.
    Pooped and tired. Then a nice drive home (25 miles away in Plano back
    then).

    I told him that, but he insisted (probably knowing he could always make
    up for it with more of those wife-cooked dinners). At last I sacrificed
    my walk that Saturday and drove the humongous thing to some area south
    of downtown Dallas. He got busy and I had nothing else to do but fool
    around and check out things of various sorts. It was not a developed
    area of Dallas (back then, that is!) and nobody could be seen around for
    at least a mile.

    Then, while walking on the banks of the shallow and wide river, I
    noticed something sticking out of the moist, hard soil. I sat down and
    looked closer. It was a jaw!... Not of a human, but belonging to some
    form of animal that I had not known or seen before. At first I thought
    it could probably be that of an alligator. I dug a little bit around it
    and found it smaller than that, and full of teeth. It couldn't be
    anything that I knew about.

    So I quickly walked that distance back to where the friend was and told
    him, "I've found a jaw of a pre-historic animal! (ماقبل تاریخ)"...

    He looks at me for a few moments to understand me better, then asks me
    to repeat what I said. "I've found the skeleton of a prehistoric animal!
    Come with me!" I repeated. He got a bit red (he did that often) and
    yielded at last and came with me to that spot. Kneeled down and closely evaluated what he was seeing. Then he quickly stands up and says, "It's nothing. It is one of the indigenous animals of Dallas area. I said,
    "What animal? I haven't seen one like this!" He didn't know the name,
    but he knew they existed among Dallas area nocturnal animals.

    So that's how my first encounter in life with an "opossum" was :-) I had
    not seen one then. Armadillos and raccoons plenty of times, but an
    opossum, only many years later.

    Yes! When you pull a physics major out of his cocoon and take him to an
    ancient river bed 50 miles away, you better expect stuff like that :-)))

    He'll find pre-historic animals there. Hahahhhahah :-))






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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Mon Aug 21 10:46:08 2023
    On 8/20/2023 6:46 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    Now how about the very last message at the end of that sermon? Hmm..

       "All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and
    those to others again; and may the last ones, understand my words better
    than those who listen to me directly today."

                                        - Mohammad's last message



    The sermon itself ended with the words above, but then Mohammad right
    after he finished the sentence turned to god and rather loudly said:

    "BE MY WITNESS, O ALLAH, THAT I HAVE CONVEYED YOUR MESSAGE TO YOUR PEOPLE.”

    - Mohammad, after finishing the last sermon


    I think he did! .. Physfitfreak wouldn't be aware of the above 1400
    years after if it was otherwise.

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