• Re: Relativity and the nature of light. Waves or particles?

    From Mikko@21:1/5 to rhertz on Wed Oct 16 12:01:08 2024
    On 2024-10-15 20:52:20 +0000, rhertz said:

    This is a comparison of einstenian and newtonian kinematics. In the
    moving frame, the distance (0, x') is measured from an observer at the
    origin of the frame at rest.

    CASE: Light moving from 0 to x' in the moving frame.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Einstein SR. Light behave as wave, and c is the maximun speed.

    Special Relativity means the theory presented in the first part of
    Einstein's "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". That theory
    says nothing about the nature of light. The only property of light
    is its speed.

    The second part of the article shows that the theory presented in the
    first part is compatible with Maxwell's equations so that the two
    theories can be used together, which is demomstrated by solving some
    problems that way.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 16 14:38:15 2024
    Den 15.10.2024 22:52, skrev rhertz:
    This is a comparison of einstenian and newtonian kinematics. In the
    moving frame, the distance (0, x') is measured from an observer at the
    origin of the frame at rest.

    CASE: Light moving from 0 to x' in the moving frame.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Einstein SR. Light behave as wave, and c is the maximun speed.


    SR doesn't depend on light being a wave.
    The speed of light is invariant whether you model it as
    a wave or a particle.
    QED, which is an extremely well confirmed theory,
    is based on SR, but light is a particle.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Newton. Light behave as corpuscles (photons?). It's allowed c + v


    The emission theory is thoroughly falsified by several experiments.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    In astronomy (Cassini, others), there are evidences that radar-ranging experiments with Venus and Mars, the speed of light is added to the
    speed v (between Earth and these planets). Known since 1965.

    :-D


    That c+v is possible destroys relativity and cosmology, as Hubble's
    results have to be RE-INTERPRETED.

    https://paulba.no/div/Brightening.pdf


    It's hard for relativists to accept this, as 110 years of lies with einstenian physics COLLAPSE completely.


    Since all physicists born after 1900 know that the emission theory
    is falsified, you have to yet again to make a fool of yourself
    by claiming that all physicists are members of a MAFFIA, and profit
    from it, and their experimental results are COOKED with the help
    of statistical manipulations, fraud, cooking and peer complicity.

    :-D


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Python on Thu Oct 17 18:11:34 2024
    On 2024-10-17 13:23:09 +0000, Python said:

    Le 16/10/2024 à 14:38, Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit :
    Le 16/10/2024 à 01:31, Python a écrit :

    On a French group you pretend not to care about convincing your
    fellow cranks. Given that you've never convince even a SINGLE one .

    Here you are desperately trying to do so. Repeatedly.

    How come :-) ?

    I don't know.

    We have to ask them.

    Why are you so crazy?

    But if you ask a Pauline to explain grace to us by the substantiation
    of Jesus Christ, he won't know; and he'll either act like a monkey and
    answer that it's a mystery and that those who tickle mysteries go to
    hell.

    Unrelated.

    If you ask a Muslim if he's sane to believe in a God of love and peace
    who demands to disgorge Jews and Christians and to beat his wife, he'll
    take out his knife.

    Unrelated.

    If you ask a physicist, even a Nobel Prize winner, why his relativistic
    system doesn't hold up, and enters into absurdity and contradiction if
    we multiply a time by a speed and the result in distance is like
    9*4=7.2; he'll become mean, very mean, and will demand "eradication of
    the crank", if not its physical or professional elimination.
    Completely false. The theory does not imply that 9*4 = 7.2. Moreover I
    have shown why proper_time * apparent_speed =/= distance. This is not
    calling for "eradication of the
    crank [you]". A sound answer is not a call to assassination. You have a
    very thin skin.
    Like your fellow crook Donald J. Trump by the way.

    If you ask many French people what they think or thought about Saddam
    Hussein, Putin, they will tell you that "Saddam Hussein was a bad guy
    who wanted to invade the world by throwing white powder on it to make
    it die en masse", "that it was good to bomb Iraq en masse and kill
    500,000 children because it was worth it", "That the Russians invaded
    the Russian-speaking territories of Crimea and Donbas to eat babies
    cooked alive in Vodka, and that Russia must be atomized because they
    are bad guys who do not want to give their resources of the soil and
    the subsoil (the largest in the world in all)".

    Unrelated (and a bunch of lies, a huge majority of French people won't
    say that).

    I guess you and I know know different samples of French people from
    those that "Dr" Hachel knows. I have _never_ heard a French person
    saying anything like that.

    No, I do not know.

    I do. Most cranks are not cranky enough to not recognize your claims
    as incoherent garbage.


    --
    athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 18 08:08:12 2024
    W dniu 18.10.2024 o 00:36, Python pisze:
    Le 17/10/2024 à 23:19, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
    Le 17/10/2024 à 22:44, Python a écrit :
    Le 17/10/2024 à 18:15, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand  a écrit :
    Le 17/10/2024 à 18:05, Python a écrit :

    I didn't say that. This is not my point.

    You've convinced nobody, not even cranks.

    Ne pas convaincre les cinglés n'est pas une preuve d'erreur
    scientifique.

    Ne pas convaincre les grands pontes de la physique moderne non plus,
    d'ailleurs.

    I didn't say that it is a proof, but a sing.

    Les cinglés sont excusables, ils sont cinglés.

    So, according to you, Wozniak, Heger, etc. are mad?

    Les autres le sont moins, ils sont malhonnêtes.

    No we are not. We spotted flaws in *your* claims. This is
    the opposite of dishonesty.

    You have shown, repeatedly, dishonest behavior. Including
    faking quotes of living and deceased people.

    Dans un monde normalement constitué, on devrait dire "Monsieur, ce
    que vous dites est intéressant, et, en effet, beaucoup de choses
    paraissent davantage logiques à la façon dont vous les traitez".
    Or, les réponses sont plutôt du style, depuis quarante ans (et pas
    qu'en science relativiste, d'ailleurs, mais aussi en criminologie,
    en théologie, en politologie) : "Monsieur, vous nous empêchez de
    tourner en rond, et cela est très déplaisant"

    Ca se passe comme ça, chez Mac Donald's.

    Not at all. Your claims are contradictory, ill-founded, in
    contradiction with
    experiments. You may not like it, but people are allowed to point
    this to
    you.

    You egomania is pathetically pathological. You are not a genius,
    Richard.

    You are a crook with mental illness and delusions of grandeur, an
    infantile
    behavior and very low integrity. That you've been exercising medicine is >>> frightening.





    I answered your question by placing electromagnetic beeps in blue sent
    by Terrence to his sister Stella.
    We see perfect logic there.
    If you don't know how to do it for Stella (according to your request
    in green)
    I'll do it for you.
    But don't come and tell me that you understand the theory of
    relativity and that I'm an idiot.

    I'll put the correspondences in blue for Terrence and the drawing that
    goes with it.

    I'll put the drawing for Stella, it's up to you to place the
    correspondences in green, and to show me that you are the second man
    in the history of humanity to master the principle.

    <http://nemoweb.net/jntp?Q1lfKIOEsSOc7vC0SmfM9lr_4og@jntp/Data.Media:1>

    R.H.

    At a certain point, Stella sends a light signal to Terrence.

    And then she uses The Force to bring
    her lightsaber on.

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to rhertz on Fri Oct 18 11:32:16 2024
    On 2024-10-17 01:29:26 +0000, rhertz said:

    On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 9:01:08 +0000, Mikko wrote:

    <snip>


    Special Relativity means the theory presented in the first part of
    Einstein's "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". That theory
    says nothing about the nature of light. The only property of light
    is its speed.

    WRONG!

    No, your "WRONG" is wrong.

    Read this part of "§ 2. On the Relativity of Lengths and Times":

    "Let a ray of light depart from A at the time4 tA, let it be reflected
    at B at the time tB, and reach A again at the time t'A. Taking into consideration the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light we
    find that ...."

    That is perfectly compatible with what I said. Nothing is said about
    the nature of light.

    Definition of RAY OF LIGHT (used for 300 years):
    The light traveling in any one direction in a straight line is called a
    ray of light. A group of light rays given out from a source is called a
    beam of light.

    That is simply a definition. A definition does not say anything
    about the nature of anything, only about the meaning of a term.

    In 1817, English physicist Thomas Young (1773 to 1829) calculated
    light's wavelength from an interference pattern, thereby not only
    figuring out that the wavelength is 1 μm or less, but also having a
    handle on the truth that light is a transverse wave.

    True (except that an interference pattern does not tell whether the
    wave is longitudinal or transverse) but not relevant. There is no
    reference to that result in "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies"
    so that result is not incorporated in Speial Relativity.

    The second part of the article shows that the theory presented in the
    first part is compatible with Maxwell's equations so that the two
    theories can be used together, which is demomstrated by solving some
    problems that way.

    The second part is A BLATANT PLAGIARISM OF 1904 LORENTZ PAPER!. Even the addition of velocities was plagiarized from Poincaré (1905).

    Irrelevant. Special relativity is the theory presented in the first part.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 18 11:13:04 2024
    Den 17.10.2024 03:29, skrev rhertz:

    The second part is A BLATANT PLAGIARISM OF 1904 LORENTZ PAPER!. Even the addition of velocities was plagiarized from Poincaré (1905).

    You have not understood anything of Einstein's text, which is
    very obvious from your ridiculous claim that §3 is a plagiarism
    of Lorentz. You can't even have read §3 properly, you have only
    scrutinised the text to find "x' = x − vt", and when you found
    it, you got an orgasm, shouting:
    "EINSTEIN USED GALILEAN TRANSFORM TO DERIVE LORENTZ WITHOUT ETHER!!"

    But you are yet again making a fool of yourself, and yet again
    you are demonstrating that you are unable to read a text and
    understand what you read.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Electrodynamics.pdf
    Read §3
    Theory of the Transformation of Co-ordinates and
    Times from a Stationary System to another System in
    Uniform Motion of Translation Relatively to the Former

    On the first page (page 5) Einstein defines the coordinate systems.
    The "stationary system" K(t,x,y,z) coordinates are Latin letters
    The "moving system" k(τ,ξ,η,ζ) coordinates are Greek letters

    So the Galilean transform is: ξ = x - vt

    You will _not_ find this anywhere in Einstein's paper.

    The x' is a point in the stationary system K, it is NOT
    a coordinate in the moving system k.

    So x' = x - vt is a _moving_ point in K.
    And since x' is moving with the speed v, it will be stationary
    relative to k.

    Einstein wrote:
    " We first define Ï„ as a function of x', y, z, and t, Ï„(t,x',y,z)"

    This is the first step in finding the functions:
    τ(t,x,y,z) = β(t - (v/c²)x)
    ξ(t,x,y,z) = β(x - vt)
    η(t,x,y,z) = y
    ζ(t,x,y,z) = z

    Read the math in §3!
    There is no resemblance to anything you find in Lorentz's paper.
    Lorentz didn't even write the Lorentz transform in that paper!
    He only used the Galilean transform first, and then the
    "change of variable" transform. These two transforms together
    is the Lorentz transform.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/div/LTorigin.pdf
    "For a reader who is not very skilled in mathematics,
    it may not be obvious that the Lorentz transformation
    is defined in that paper."

    Richard Hertz is obviously in this category, because he thought
    the "change of variables" transform was the Lorentz transform.
    He wrote:
    " 1904 ORIGINAL LORENTZ TRANSFORMS
    x' = β x ; Lorentz Eq. 4
    t' = t/β - β vx/c² ; Lorentz Eq. 5
    "
    ----------------------------------

    I will repeat it again if you repeat your ridiculous claim:
    " §3 IS A PLAGIARISM OF 1904 LORENTZ PAPER!"

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 18 11:27:19 2024
    W dniu 18.10.2024 o 11:13, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 17.10.2024 03:29, skrev rhertz:

    The second part is A BLATANT PLAGIARISM OF 1904 LORENTZ PAPER!. Even the
    addition of velocities was plagiarized from Poincaré (1905).

    You have not understood anything of Einstein's text, which is

    Neither you are and the mumble of the idiot was not even
    consistent.

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 23 10:17:06 2024
    Den 22.10.2024 23:08, skrev Richard Hachel:

    Light propagates in "nothing at all", or rather, does not propagate.

    Sound has a medium: air.

    Light has no medium, and it was a mistake to look for something that
    could support its propagation.

    Light is an instantaneous transaction of energy between two atoms, so we cannot really talk about "propagation" which requires a speed, that is
    to say a ratio of distance over time.

    The question is what gives light an aspect of propagation when there is
    no propagation? What gives it a wave-like appearance, when there is no
    wave? What gives it the appearance of a particle when there is no particle.

    If you think about it, what the photon seems to be surfing on is not an ether, it is not something metric, it is not something compact.

    It is simply universal enisochrony.

    In short, the photon does not exist, but seems to exist, and if we had
    to propose something on which it surfs, it would be spatial anisochornia.

    In short, it surfs on time.

    By crossing space, it crosses time for the observer who studies it, and
    thus gives an impression of speed, of surfing on "this time".

    But this is only an illusion. Between the two atoms, between here and
    there, there is nothing at all; not the slightest existence.

    When the quantum leaves the atom, it is already instantly at the level
    of an atom of the receiver.

    Niet, ether.

    R.H.



    'nuff said! :-D

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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