XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect. I know that
Corey White of alt.magick maintains that one must have
faith for a magickal working to have effect. However I am
trained as a scientist, and believe that this flapping of my
higher dimensional butterfly wings will work or not work regardless
of whether I have faith or not.

If you are interested in my progress, which I deem more likely
if you notice effects (some of which should begin very soon),
see the thread “D-moon to April Fool’s Day” on alt.religion.druid .

--
David Dalton dalton@nfld.com https://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page) https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page) "And now the angry morning; Gives the early signs of warning; You must
face alone the plans you make; Decisions they will try to break" (S. McL.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no reasonable
basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith. It's delusion.

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no
reasonable basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith.
It's delusion.

Sylvia.

Thanks for the update Miss Pandora.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 2.0 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohammed

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no reasonable
basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith. It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms Glorious
Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper! My questions are, why and who
anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.



Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 10:45:17 -0700, the following appeared in
sci.skeptic, posted by Siri Cruise
<chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com>:

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don�t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no
reasonable basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith.
It's delusion.

Thanks for the update Miss Pandora.

"Miss Pandora"?

Ah, another apologist for magic (or as David calls it,
"magick". Cool.

--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 09:57:36 +1000, the following appeared in
sci.skeptic, posted by Michael McLean
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com>:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don�t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no reasonable
basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith. It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms Glorious
Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper! My questions are, why and who >anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.

Interesting; I wasn't aware that the Church had begun to
support magic users, which is who Sylvia was responding to.
Something new in the canon?

--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Bob Casanova wrote:

Thanks for the update Miss Pandora.

"Miss Pandora"?

Ah, another apologist for magic (or as David calls it,
"magick". Cool.

Yes, all of us who read old greek stories in grammar school are
well trained in magick. Bullfinch is right up there with Necronomicon.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 2.0 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohammed

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 9:57 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no
reasonable basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith.
It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms
Glorious Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper!  My questions are, why and
who anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.



Michael

I don't really see how you reach the "atheist" conclusion.

Religion mostly seems to involve believing that something, God,
exists, without supporting evidence. There does not appear to be an expectation that something will happen as a consequence. Indeed, much
of the support for religious belief seems to form around explaining
the absence of things happening, such as protecting churches from earthquakes, despite the supposed existence of God.

OK, NOW you can probably reasonably conclude that I'm an atheist.

just ignore 'Mad Mike'

Sylvia.

--
“Modern Christian: Someone who believes in dragons
unicorns, talking snakes, angels, miracles and demons
but who insist that others have no idea of reality"
- Mitchell Holman 5.4.23

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 08-Apr-23 9:57 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no reasonable
basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith. It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms Glorious
Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper!  My questions are, why and who anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.

Michael

I don't really see how you reach the "atheist" conclusion.

Religion mostly seems to involve believing that something, God, exists,
without supporting evidence. There does not appear to be an expectation
that something will happen as a consequence. Indeed, much of the support
for religious belief seems to form around explaining the absence of
things happening, such as protecting churches from earthquakes, despite
the supposed existence of God.

OK, NOW you can probably reasonably conclude that I'm an atheist.

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 08-Apr-23 1:55 pm, Maximus wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 9:57 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no
reasonable basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith.
It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms
Glorious Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper!  My questions are, why and
who anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.



Michael

I don't really see how you reach the "atheist" conclusion.

Religion mostly seems to involve believing that something, God,
exists, without supporting evidence. There does not appear to be an
expectation that something will happen as a consequence. Indeed, much
of the support for religious belief seems to form around explaining
the absence of things happening, such as protecting churches from
earthquakes, despite the supposed existence of God.

OK, NOW you can probably reasonably conclude that I'm an atheist.

just ignore 'Mad Mike'

Sylvia.

I would, but sometimes it's fun to play with these people.

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 8/04/2023 1:26 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 9:57 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don’t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no reasonable
basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith. It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms
Glorious Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper!  My questions are, why and who
anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.



Michael

I don't really see how you reach the "atheist" conclusion.

Religion mostly seems to involve believing that something, God, exists, without supporting evidence.

Without your "supporting evidence", not ours. That was the point, Ms self-created know-it-all. Your "reasonable basis" is like a 2 second
look at the ocean and thinking you know everything about the ocean.

There are billions of people who can't get enough of God, living with supporting evidence in their lives, Ms Awesome. Yes, they are all
fools, but you are obviously not, because there is nothing greater than
you and your atheist self-created thoughts. :-).

There does not appear to be an expectation
that something will happen as a consequence.

Everything is the consequence of something. No thing can create itself.
It needs a cause. Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

Too much for your super atheist brain?

Now, where is your argument as an atheist?? What? It "seems", or "there
does not appear," or I have my "reasonable" glorious "basis?" :-).
Great supporting evidence and terrific hypocrisy!

You walk through life no different to a believer. The only difference
being is that you believe and put faith in yourself as your own creator;
the impossible! That is what it boils down to, sister!

Indeed, much of the support
for religious belief seems to form around explaining the absence of
things happening, such as protecting churches from earthquakes, despite
the supposed existence of God.

God has nothing to do with the religions of men, atheist and religious
nuts alike.

He just is, and we run around trying to invent our existence like fools.
If you don't know Him, that is your problem. Everyone has the
opportunity to step down from their self-wonderful ego throne and find
God. You don't want to? Fine! You don't have to!

That is what free will is.

OK, NOW you can probably reasonably conclude that I'm an atheist.

Sylvia.

It stuck out like dog's ball from the start with the typical huge
atheist ego of self-knowledge and self-worship, Sylia what-Else-is-there-but-me-thoughts!





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 1:55 pm, Maximus wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 9:57 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 7/04/2023 10:33 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29-Mar-23 4:16 pm, David Dalton wrote:

Right now I don�t have faith but do have hope that my global new
age onset magickal workings will have effect.

Having some expectation that something will happen with no
reasonable basis for thinking it will is neither hope, nor faith.
It's delusion.

Sylvia.

No, it's life, fool atheist.

Life does not exist according YOUR mind's reasonable basis, Ms
Glorious Mind.

The atheist is always a self-worshiper!� My questions are, why and
who anointed them the self-glory?

One guess.



Michael

I don't really see how you reach the "atheist" conclusion.

Religion mostly seems to involve believing that something, God,
exists, without supporting evidence. There does not appear to be an
expectation that something will happen as a consequence. Indeed, much
of the support for religious belief seems to form around explaining
the absence of things happening, such as protecting churches from
earthquakes, despite the supposed existence of God.

OK, NOW you can probably reasonably conclude that I'm an atheist.

just ignore 'Mad Mike'

Sylvia.

I would, but sometimes it's fun to play with these people.

They can be a barrel of monkeys.

Ask Mike why the Lord demoted him from Christ to altar
boy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Bob Casanova wrote:

Thanks for the update Miss Pandora.

"Miss Pandora"?

Ah, another apologist for magic (or as David calls it,
"magick". Cool.

Yes, all of us who read old greek stories in grammar school are
well trained in magick. Bullfinch is right up there with Necronomicon.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 2.0 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohammed

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

And a snip back at ya, Sylvy.

Piss off, fool atheist, you ain't got nothing to stand on but your
"self" glory, and I don't have time for fools anymore.

You are dying, moron. If the universe was eternal, so would everything
around you be, and including you.

Fool atheists, always looking for a walk around reality! :-).





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 08-Apr-23 6:01 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

And a snip back at ya, Sylvy.

Piss off, fool atheist, you ain't got nothing to stand on but your
"self" glory, and I don't have time for fools anymore.

You are dying, moron.  If the universe was eternal, so would everything around you be, and including you.

Why couldn't the universe be cyclic - big bang - expansion - contraction
- big crunch - repeat?

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid
says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <mqc33il8h9gsvm1puv7fhj07phrbeq9pjc@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

So much for the omnipotent deity thing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 8/04/2023 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 6:01 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

And a snip back at ya, Sylvy.

Piss off, fool atheist, you ain't got nothing to stand on but your
"self" glory, and I don't have time for fools anymore.

You are dying, moron.  If the universe was eternal, so would
everything around you be, and including you.

Why couldn't the universe be cyclic - big bang - expansion - contraction
- big crunch - repeat?

Sylvia.

Okay, I'll indulge you, a little further, but understand that I am sick
to death of listening to impossible nonsense, Sylvia.

No thing can create itself. Let that sink in. Nothing can "be" before it
is, in order to bring itself into "being".

You can't "be" and not "be" at the same time.

Now, please stop wasting my time with circular atheist "what if"
nonsense and absurdity.

I told you, eternal God/Creator or nothing would be here. If you don't
want to accept that, that is your choice. I don't give a shit about human-self-worshiping religions and atheist fantasy self-created rubbish.

I found our Creator, and that is the end of the story for me. I am
nothing special, so you can too, but running around in loony toon,
seemingly endless, juvenile, ignorant, reasoning is not on my list of
hobbies.

This world is gone; it can't critically think anymore. What is a woman?
Really? Abortion is not killing a human being? Really? I was listening
to the housewife in the 1960s talking to the reporter about whatever,
and she was more rational, sensible, and sane then than a mixed ocean
liner load of religious and atheist morons, and so-called "academics" of
today. That woman could hang out the washing and be more grounded than
the idiot, yes-men, Tik-Tok popular, cretins of today.

The world is lost in its own Netflix imagination; little wonder we can't
get our faces out of our fantasy big-screen television sets.

You and they don't see it because all you know now is self-pleasure, self-worship, and me, me, me, what I think as your foundation. Blind,
deaf, and dumb.

God set what a woman is, God set that a pregnant womb contains a human
life, God set that all lives are equal, God set hope, purpose, and
meaning in us, and modern man comes along in his genius and completely
fucks people from asshole to breakfast.

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as
God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and
their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Those facts, written thousands of years ago, are borne out right before
your very eyes.

Right throughout history the same damn thing.

All of huge Russia now, wanting MORE with Ukraine; all of huge China,
now wanting MORE with Taiwan; so war! Man never ever ever ever ever ever
ever learns! He is a fool without God directing him, forever bound to
repeat his constant, vain, grabbing lust for what ultimately passes
through his fingers.  And with every election, there is the lying
promise to fix things.  Bullshit, we can't fix things; it has never
happened and it is never going to happen!

If you don't want those facts, then don't have them, but it changes
nothing, my self-created atheist genius.





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.


"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <blp33iltejle2mqqc05hq12gb6cdj6n7me@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual. If it was created it cannot be eternal.

So much for the omnipotent deity thing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 09-Apr-23 7:51 am, Michael McLean wrote:

On 8/04/2023 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 08-Apr-23 6:01 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

And a snip back at ya, Sylvy.

Piss off, fool atheist, you ain't got nothing to stand on but your
"self" glory, and I don't have time for fools anymore.

You are dying, moron.  If the universe was eternal, so would
everything around you be, and including you.

Why couldn't the universe be cyclic - big bang - expansion -
contraction - big crunch - repeat?

Sylvia.

Okay, I'll indulge you, a little further, but understand that I am sick
to death of listening to impossible nonsense, Sylvia.

No thing can create itself. Let that sink in. Nothing can "be" before it
is, in order to bring itself into "being".

So your position is that God is eternal, but nothing else can be, because.....reasons?

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

And a snip back a ya, runaway girl.

NO THING CAN CREATE ITSELF, YOU FUCKIN' IDIOT ATHEIST!

Go and wank on someone else's precious time, you self-created fool!




Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 09-Apr-23 1:07 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

And a snip back a ya, runaway girl.

NO THING CAN CREATE ITSELF, YOU FUCKIN' IDIOT ATHEIST!

I'm not saying it can. I'm just wondering why the universe cannot be
eternal if God can?

If the universe is eternal, then it did not need to be created, because
it was always there - just like God. And, of course, if the universe
didn't need to be created, then there's no need for a God.

Your entire thesis seems to be based on the premise that God can have a property - being eternal - that is denied to anything else for no
explained reason.

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Go away and wank some place else, Else! Waste your time with morons.

I gave you a fair shake, now piss off.

Thank you.




Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 09-Apr-23 1:07 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

And a snip back a ya, runaway girl.

NO THING CAN CREATE ITSELF, YOU FUCKIN' IDIOT ATHEIST!

I'm not saying it can. I'm just wondering why the universe cannot be
eternal if God can?

If the universe is eternal, then it did not need to be created, because
it was always there - just like God. And, of course, if the universe
didn't need to be created, then there's no need for a God.

Your entire thesis seems to be based on the premise that God can have a property - being eternal - that is denied to anything else for no
explained reason.

Sylvia.

Michael is Christ, and christs don't have to do answers,
and they especially don't have to do reasons. You just
accept their little nuggets of wisdom and change your
life to fit.

I've asked him the same question. He doesn't know the
answer, except that he has said it before therefore it
must be self-evident.

Michael cross-posted you to a.a. from wherever you read,
and now he's ordering you out. It does seem
inhospitable, doesn't it, considering it's not his ng to
expropriate. I hope you'll post here often.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <1v563it4j9c8fet23jgl39qa7cco2sdtdb@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

That is because you are a fool atheist, El Got Nothing on the train to
Nowhere! :-).





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <qo963ihgb1mkhgkol723fvc0a86osdm5sh@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Same old bullshit you spew when I put you in a corner.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

<snip 5 year oldisms>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

An eternal universe can have a beginning. If it lasts
forever, it's eternal. If it has existed since infinity
ago and ends now, it's still eternal.

Eternal just means "having infinite duration". <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal>

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

Or, can God create itself?

It depends on what kind of god the believer chooses to
invent.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 10/04/2023 1:58 pm, El Kabong wrote:

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

<snip 5 year oldisms>

Now you know why you have a sore ass, El Moron. :-).

A second reason. :-))))))))))))))))).

Fool.





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 10/04/2023 2:41 pm, El Kabong wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

An eternal universe can have a beginning.

Moron atheism at its best! :-)))))))))))))))))))))).

Fools.

No beginning, El Dipshit!

So they make up a theory! :-).

What a fuckin' idiot!

Serves you right, El Cretin!



Michael



If it lasts

forever, it's eternal. If it has existed since infinity
ago and ends now, it's still eternal.

Eternal just means "having infinite duration". <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal>

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in
contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

Or, can God create itself?

It depends on what kind of god the believer chooses to
invent.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <eu273it4punnqpcj8mtmk6ham539ccbrtu@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

An eternal universe can have a beginning. If it lasts
forever, it's eternal. If it has existed since infinity
ago and ends now, it's still eternal.

Eternal just means "having infinite duration". <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal>

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

Or, can God create itself?

It depends on what kind of god the believer chooses to
invent.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infinity

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <k9h6mjFd4pfU5@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid
says...

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

If it was created it can't be eternal.

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Nice spin.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <u2273i5t223mre4t6fn30o9d9lc2feq0sv@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:22:27 +1000, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else
<sylvia@email.invalid>:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal",
which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring
the second, which does not:

From the OED:

"1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always
existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal
chatter."

IOW, word games.

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in >contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

An eternal universe can have a beginning. If it lasts
forever, it's eternal. If it has existed since infinity
ago and ends now, it's still eternal.

Eternal just means "having infinite duration". <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal>

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

Or, can God create itself?

It depends on what kind of god the believer chooses to
invent.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infinity

Nope. Irrelevant, but thanks for playing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 11/04/2023 3:03 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:22:27 +1000, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else
<sylvia@email.invalid>:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal",
which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring
the second, which does not:

From the OED:

"1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always
existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal
chatter."

IOW, word games.

One thing is for sure, you won't continue to be an eternal wank nowhere man!

How's that? :-).





Michael

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in
contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 11/04/2023 12:41 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <u2273i5t223mre4t6fn30o9d9lc2feq0sv@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Too much for the fool atheist brain to comprehend!





Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!





Michael



--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 09:49:50 +1000, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by Michael McLean
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com>:

On 11/04/2023 3:03 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:22:27 +1000, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else
<sylvia@email.invalid>:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal",
which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring
the second, which does not:

From the OED:

"1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always
existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal
chatter."

IOW, word games.

One thing is for sure, you won't continue to be an eternal wank nowhere man!

Correct! And never have been!

How's that? :-).

10 for 10!

--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:

in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal",
which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring
the second, which does not:

From the OED:

"1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always
existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal
chatter."

IOW, word games.

Eternal means simply "having infinite duration".

That could be from time=minus infinity to plus infinity,
minus infinity to now, or now to infinity. And beyond.
All infinite, all eternal.

(Time probably began with the big bang, so t=-infinity
would be fictitious anyway.)

In the context of religion, xtians are fond of prattling
about eternal life.

"14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the
wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted
up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his
only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3

Does that imply that humans have already lived an
infinite time? Unscriptural as hell! No, the bible
plainly says life can have a beginning and still be
eternal. The hellbound antichrists are selling heresy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Michael McLean wrote:

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>>>>>>>> eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

Nope. Try again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

On 11/04/2023 4:52 pm, El Kabong wrote:

Michael McLean wrote:

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create itself.
 It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

There you go, you self-created fool.

No charge.



Michael

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <gs293i1j00jep34r2l50qjet3ln5b481kq@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

Yes and now you run.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <f8393ih2o5rphk5icd5apuph66us8hnbkd@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an
eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?

An eternal universe can have a beginning. If it lasts
forever, it's eternal. If it has existed since infinity
ago and ends now, it's still eternal.

Eternal just means "having infinite duration". <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal>

In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.

Sylvia.

Or, can God create itself?

It depends on what kind of god the believer chooses to
invent.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infinity

Nope. Irrelevant, but thanks for playing.

He runs from another one.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <ms0a3i5p3vvbqvq13au3a43n24sr7abrca@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>>>>>>>> eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that?

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

Nope. Try again.

So far everyone but you has it right.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

In article <m4gb3i5b7kt7rpqu2jukiv3j82jpo9j7in@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

On 11/04/2023 4:52 pm, El Kabong wrote:

Michael McLean wrote:

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?

Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not >>>>>>>>>>> omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that? >>>

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

Nope. Try again.

There you go, you self-created fool.

Nope.

You really struggle to focus, don't you. Have you ever
been evaluated for ADHD?

Why? because he thinks you're a self created fool?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism
XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism, alt.magick

Michael McLean <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

On 11/04/2023 4:52 pm, El Kabong wrote:

Michael McLean wrote:

On 11/04/2023 8:23 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Michael McLean wrote:

On 10/04/2023 7:03 am, El Kabong wrote:

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

twang@the.noodle says...

Skeeter wrote:

In article <k9cbpdFl0e1U4@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid says...

On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Everything is the consequence of something.� No thing can create itself.
�It needs a cause.� Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing
can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."

So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sylvia.

He created it?

Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.

So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal universe.

Twist it around as usual.

You said it, not me.

If it was created it cannot be eternal.

Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create
something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not
omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.

If it was created it had a beginning.

So?

Spnak!

You are running away again, skeetzoid.

Do you see how easy Skeeter kicks your ass? :-).

I see how both of you do a lot of talking.
It's your way of diving into the weeds when
you can't hold your own.

Why didn't you invent an omnipotent god?

If it has a beginning it can't be eternal. What is so hard about that? >>>

Nope. Try again.

Moron fool atheist!

Nope. Try again.

There you go, you self-created fool.

Nope.

You really struggle to focus, don't you. Have you ever
been evaluated for ADHD?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)