• Martian colony

    From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 4 13:16:29 2024
    Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
    good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
    1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others can’t go without consent).
    2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
    case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their
    habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
    unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
    3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
    a colonist (therefore, you can’t just have a shelter sufficient for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
    4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work
    without having to put on spacesuits.


    My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
    habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
    between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
    don’t need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have airlocks
    at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from the tube,
    you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a fire in one
    habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You don’t want to have to depressurize to get rid of smoke every time
    someone burns his toasts.

    Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired
    in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

    You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
    would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing “streets” allow you to go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a fire,
    smoke or what not.

    What do you think? How would you design a colony?


    Alain Fournier

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  • From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to Snidely on Mon Oct 7 22:39:01 2024
    On 2024-10-07 6:05 p.m., Snidely wrote:
    Snidely asserted that:
    Alain Fournier suggested that ...
    Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
    good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
    1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others can’t
    go without consent).
    2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly
    (in case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of
    their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a
    spacesuit, unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in
    about 2 seconds.
    3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters
    of a colonist (therefore, you can’t just have a shelter sufficient
    for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
    4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to
    work without having to put on spacesuits.


    My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
    habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
    between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
    don’t need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have
    airlocks at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from
    the tube, you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to
    have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there
    is a fire in one habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into
    the passageway. You don’t want to have to depressurize to get rid of
    smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

    Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly
    paired in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

    You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
    would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all
    the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing “streets” allow you to >>> go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a
    fire, smoke or what not.

    What do you think? How would you design a colony?


    Alain Fournier

    I expect that the first buildings will be very basic, like ISS
    modules.  The 2nd generation (of buildings) will probably build around
    the 1st, perhaps connected by a hub.  During both of these phases,
    most facilities will be communal, with perhaps "private" sleeping
    closets, but maybe also barracks style bunking.  But of course, these
    will be the advance team and not the Mayflower passengers.

    Yes I agree. I was thinking about "the Mayflower passengers" not the
    advance team. Musk seems to want to get there fast.

    It won't be before the 3rd generation that "apartments" will be built,
    and that will probably be as a row of suites on a common hallway;
    perhaps a hallway in front or in back.

    where "or" means "and"

    "Houses" will probably be a long way off.

    I don't see "houses" before in situ building materials are in use, which
    will probably require a significant support crew even if fabrication is primarily with robotic equipment.

    Your concern about suitless evacuation will probably involve pressurized garages for excursion vehicles.

    I'm not sure what you mean with that. If you have a party at home and a
    fire breaks out, not all guests will have their excursion vehicles in
    your garage (in fact there is a good chance that not all guests will
    have an excursion vehicle at all). You might not want to plan on
    everyone getting into the vehicle in the garage. Also, if you evacuate
    via one excursion vehicle for many people, you have to make sure that
    smoke does not fill the vehicle while boarding.

    I prefer the hallway evacuation method. A long hallway with sections
    separated by "sealable" doors. If some smoke gets in the hallway, you go
    to the next section. By a sealable door I mean that not much smoke would
    cross the door. Other doors would be air tight meaning you can
    depressurise one side of the door but not the other side. Sealable doors
    would be openable and closable as fast as normal Earthly doors therefore suitable as an escape route. Airtight doors allow to extinguish fires by depressurising a section once everyone is out.


    Alain Fournier

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  • From Niklas Holsti@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Tue Oct 8 09:37:47 2024
    On 2024-10-04 20:16, Alain Fournier wrote:
    Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
    good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
    1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others can’t go without consent).
    2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
    case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
    unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
    3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
    a colonist (therefore, you can’t just have a shelter sufficient for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
    4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.


    What comes to my mind is:

    - Private quarters or apartments are implemented as large rovers, each
    with its own (perhaps short-term) life support and power.

    - These "mobile apartments" are docked to the outside of a hub. The hub
    can be a straight hallway or a ring (a torus) or a larger structure with
    more room. There would probably be underground rooms under the hub, too,
    for radiation shielding.

    - The hub has long-term life support and power supplies and, when large
    enough, contains shared facilities like meeting rooms, laboratories,
    workshops, restaurants, swimming pools.

    If one mobile apartment has an emergency, such as a fire, the occupants
    escape into the hub, the docking doors to the apartment are closed, and
    perhaps the unoccupied apartment is undocked and moved to a safe distance.

    If the hub has an emergency, the occupants retreat into their
    apartments, close the docking doors, and either wait it out or undock
    and move away and perhaps dock to another hub.

    The hubs at a certain site should have enough free docking ports, in
    total, to accommodate all apartments from any one hub that fails. Or if
    there are too few free docking ports, apartments could take turns to
    connect to a hub and resupply. Or apartments could have two docking
    ports, perhaps one at each end, letting several apartments daisy-chain
    to the same hub port.

    The several hubs at a given site could be interconnected with tunnels to
    allow people to move about and mingle without moving the apartments. Or
    some apartments could be designed as public transport and make regular
    trips between hubs.

    If an apartment needs to take a longer trip, for which its own life
    support and power are insufficient, it could tow or couple to a support vehicle, as in "The Martian". Perhaps there could be "wagon trains" of apartments all supported by a large "locomotive" unit...

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Tue Oct 8 17:16:11 2024
    On 2024-10-04 17:16:29 +0000, Alain Fournier said:

    Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
    good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
    1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others can’t
    go without consent).
    2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
    case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
    unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
    3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
    a colonist (therefore, you can’t just have a shelter sufficient for
    the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
    4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.


    My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
    habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
    between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
    don’t need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have
    airlocks at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from
    the tube, you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a
    fire in one habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You don’t want to have to depressurize to get rid of
    smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

    Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired
    in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

    You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
    would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing “streets” allow you to
    go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a
    fire, smoke or what not.

    What do you think? How would you design a colony?

    The main problems on Mars are weather and the same as on Moon.
    Therefore the design should be based on the design of colonies
    on Moon and experiences from them.


    --
    Mikko

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