• 'Not safe anywhere now': American Jews are flocking to gun training cla

    From Heinz@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 22 21:36:55 2023
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.politics.democrats.d, talk.politics.guns

    Henya Chein has always been terrified of guns. The Orthodox Jewish artist
    and mother of two felt uneasy about her husband’s decision to buy a
    handgun after they moved to Florida from New York last year.

    “I would just block it out of my mind that it’s in the house,” Chein, 26,
    said.

    But after watching the events unfold in Israel, she’s taken steps she
    never imagined herself ever taking. Chein attended a gun safety seminar at
    her synagogue last week followed by a one-on-one session at a local
    shooting range.

    “Even at the range, I just wanted to drop the gun and run back home,”
    Chein said. “I was so scared, and I’m terrified of it.”

    But she said she felt “forced to do it because Jewish people are not safe anywhere now.”

    The deadly terrorist attack in Israel and the torrent of social media
    threats that followed have forced many American Jews to reconsider their
    long held stances against owning or using guns.

    Firearm instructors and Jewish security groups across the country say they
    have been flooded with new clientele since Hamas assaulted Israel on Oct.
    7. And gun shop owners in Florida say they have seen more Jews purchase firearms in recent weeks than ever before.

    “We’ve definitely seen a tremendous increase in religious Jewish people, Orthodox people, purchasing firearms,” said David Kowalsky, who owns
    Florida Gun Store in the town of Hollywood, and also offers firearms
    training classes. “I’ve seen a surge in interest in individual training as
    well as group training.”

    Kowalsky, who is Jewish, said local synagogues had reached out to him to
    host gun training seminars and shooting sessions in the past week. At one
    gun safety seminar he hosted this past week, Kowalsky said most
    participants were new to guns.

    “These are mothers, teachers, the majority of them are mostly people who
    have never interacted with firearms or thought about owning them,”
    Kowalsky said. “There’s a safety concern. I think people are nervous about what’s going on and what can happen.”

    Rabbi Yossi Eilfort runs Magen Am, a nonprofit in Los Angeles that
    provides self-defense classes and firearm training to the Jewish
    community. He said they’ve received more than 600 calls in the last week.

    “We can’t put down the phone without picking up the next one,” said
    Eilfort said. “The calls for self-defense training, situational awareness training — ‘How do I make my shop or my institution a harder target?’ —
    has just been really, really nonstop.”

    It is not uncommon for targeted groups to seek out self-defense measures
    after public attacks or threats.

    Some American Jews said they had first become interested in gun ownership
    after a 2018 shooting at a Pittsburgh synagogue killed 11 people. A 2022
    study from the University of Michigan found that Asian Americans who experienced racism during the pandemic were more likely to acquire
    firearms and ammunition for self-defense.

    But in many Jewish communities, gun ownership is a taboo subject.

    “The majority of Jews in the country historically have been liberal on the left, pro-gun reform, pro-gun control, opposed to personal gun ownership,”
    said Hank Sheinkopf, a veteran New York-based political strategist who is
    also an Orthodox rabbi. “Jews with guns were always seen as an odd event.”

    But now, Sheinkopf added, it seems the long held view — of the U.S. being
    the “one place in the world where Jews are safe — is coming to an end.”

    Pro-Hamas extremists and neo-Nazis have inundated social media platforms
    with calls for attacks on Jewish communities and other targets in the U.S.
    and Europe, prompting U.S. law enforcement agencies to step up their
    readiness postures, NBC News reported last week. And there have been a smattering of hate crime incidents against Jews in the U.S., including an assault recently of a woman while she was standing on a busy New York City subway platform.

    Muslim Americans have also been targeted in recent weeks. In the most high-profile case, a 6-year-old Palestinian American boy was stabbed to
    death in his Illinois home in what police described as an anti-Muslim hate crime; his landlord has been charged with murder in the attack.

    NBC News spoke with more than a dozen Jewish Americans across the country
    who sought out gun ownership or formal gun training for the first time in response to the Israel-Gaza conflict. Many said they did not feel
    comfortable publicly sharing their identities out of fear they might be targeted. At least two people said they had received antisemitic death
    threats on social media.

    Some also said they feared backlash from people in their communities who
    may be less receptive to gun ownership.

    Endi Tennenhaus, a preschool director and mother of seven living in
    Hollywood, Florida, helped organize a gun safety training for women at her synagogue this past week. Her husband, who is the synagogue’s rabbi, had already organized a men’s group to go to a shooting range.

    “I said, ‘What about the women? I’m sure some of the women would love to
    do that as well,’” recalled Tennenhaus, 41. “If all of our husbands are
    buying guns, we want to make sure we also know how to use them and also to
    be able to protect our children and be able to keep guns safe in our
    homes.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/not-safe-anywhere-now-american-jews-are- flocking-to-gun-training-classes/ar-AA1iEcwU

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  • From Jerry Stein@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 01:52:57 2023
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.politics.democrats.d, talk.politics.guns

    Henya Chein has always been terrified of guns. The Orthodox Jewish artist
    and mother of two felt uneasy about her husband's decision to buy a
    handgun after they moved to Florida from New York last year.

    "I would just block it out of my mind that it's in the house," Chein, 26, >said.

    Since Nazis are rightists, it looks like Jews will be shooting all kinds of rightists, especially in Red States with the liberal gun laws.

    I'm sure the Muslims are arming themselves too as there will be nothing to restrict them from owning as many firearms as they please in many places.

    Muslims armed themselves to stop being attacked after 9/11 and as a result
    many red state sewers ran out of body bags for the Conservative white trash
    who were killed.

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  • From Bruce Hero@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 02:52:23 2023
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.politics.democrats.d, talk.politics.guns

    Henya Chein has always been terrified of guns. The Orthodox Jewish artist
    and mother of two felt uneasy about her husband's decision to buy a
    handgun after they moved to Florida from New York last year.

    "I would just block it out of my mind that it's in the house," Chein, 26, >said.

    Biden's sending Trump to prison for the rest of his life and anyone taking up arms to prevent that from happening will end up dead.

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  • From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to Heinz on Sun Oct 29 08:08:34 2023
    On 2023-10-22, Heinz <heinz@hartford.con> wrote:
    Henya Chein has always been terrified of guns. The Orthodox Jewish artist
    and mother of two felt uneasy about her husbandÂ’s decision to buy a
    handgun after they moved to Florida from New York last year.

    “I would just block it out of my mind that it’s in the house,” Chein, 26, said.

    But after watching the events unfold in Israel, sheÂ’s taken steps she
    never imagined herself ever taking. Chein attended a gun safety seminar at her synagogue last week followed by a one-on-one session at a local
    shooting range.
    [...]

    If they had listened to some obvious arguments (I was making here and elsewhere, constantly over and over and over and over) about the insane
    if not criminal system of National Debt and the way everything was made
    *worse* in 2008, the Jewish people would not only be armed right now,
    they would have had 10+ years of training behind them.

    Training is more than merely shooting at a range. You also need to be
    fit, and to think of this fitness not as Average Joe deskworker from the suburbs doing his jogging round, or even someone pumping muscles because
    he wants to look cool. Fitness on a level of a soldier is a different
    thing. I am merely echoing what I read in various manuals I got. Hand to
    hand combat is especially difficult. I don't even think it is possible
    to get to a soldier level fitness for most people, and still meet the
    demands of every day life (and the Torah also, which is even more
    important).

    I think it is especially necessary to be capable of at least basic small
    unit tactics. This has to be trained. If you don't train it, it isn't in
    your bones and muscles when you are probably scared and panicked if you
    come under attack. Even if you don't panic, you have to have the
    experience before you know you can trust yourself with some kind of
    maneuvre. The best thing you probably can do is to buy a beginner Army
    manual, do what you can in terms of personal combat skills, and do what
    you can in terms of small unic maneuvres.

    Besides this, you should also invest in survival, which more or less
    breaks down into gear and skills I guess. Buy a book, there are many.
    Search for "Bush craft" if you didn't know already. You will find a lot
    of high end survival skills, and I guess they tend to go a bit far
    sometimes.

    I think you already made a big difference for yourself, if you have
    never camped (but that shouldn't be true because you kept to the Torah
    festival of huts, right?), so you don't have any tents or rucksacks and
    you don't know that you should bring water with you if you start walking,
    and you don't have any way to make fire ... but then you do little more
    than get yourself a 60-85 liter rucksack (with properly padded hip
    belt), a tent for you and yours, some kind of sleeping gear, some kind
    of fire equipment, and you manage to stuff it is your rucksacks to a
    weight of below 20 kg per person (the less the better). 30 kg is a
    really serious weight for someone not trained, 10 kg shouldn't be any
    problem, 20 is in the middle of that, which was what we usually went for
    on a vacation (incl. water). If the men still have to carry more up to
    30 kg, with enough rest you probably can get a distance in still.

    If you just did that and not much else, ideally now before the prices go through the roof, it gives you options. For example if you live in a big
    city which wight be nuked, it could be the difference between life and
    death if you feel you can reasonably comfortably move for a few weeks to
    some forest vacation camping area, because you have the gear to do it.
    If you don't have the gear, you probably just sit there hoping for the
    best. Experience helps, but I think having the gear can get someone
    without experience over certain hurdles also. If you don't have any
    gear, then you need all the more experience or creativity to still make
    it. I guess this is where the festival of huts comes in. Another genius
    part of the Torah.

    Even I on a minimum budget have been able to arm myself lightly (all 100% legal), and I went to a bow shooting club so many years ago, I don't
    even recall how many years. I have a crazy powerful crossbow, ordinary
    compound bows, swords, spears, bullet proof vest, army clothing
    including helmet even, and all kinds of survival gear, two large
    rucksacks, various forms of water filtration, all kinds of burners from
    a portable stove with a chamber of about 15 liter or so and a meters
    long pipe, to gas canister stoves, mini alcohol stove, light weight
    foldable wood burner stove, a wood stove which cooks water very fast ... Besides this I have a vegetable garden, plus excess seeds from it, which
    gives the ability to quickly start larger gardens for more people
    (especially kale and beetroot leafs, or however that is called in
    English).

    Just shooting at the range is not enough, although it should help. I
    wonder if you will get into fire fights which look like the movies,
    which are notoriously absurd. People just standing up 30 meters from
    each other, shooting like maniacs.

    *

    This is what you chose, humanity. You wanted this war, you wanted the
    nuclear war, because you chose to have it in 2008. You didn't want to restructure the economy when it was clearly going wrong. You didn't want
    to resolve the underlying issues. All you wanted was things to remain as
    they where, and comfortable for you in that moment. All you cared about
    was the now. That now is now increasingly gone. You also didn't care
    about looking into 9/11, because the TV is always right in your shallow
    mind. You let yourself be manipulated, because you lacked the courage to
    stand with those who cared. You wanted to fit in, you wanted to serve
    the people with the money.

    (Excluding those who know they are excluded from this, because they also
    wasted their time talking to a deaf and willfully ignorant people.)

    Now you will die for them, because they want you dead. You have been
    rewarded, you have had your additional decade of decadence. The services
    have been rendered, the services you wanted. Now you will have to pay
    for it. For perhaps most people, this payment will mean your life. Easily
    up to half of humanity could die if World War 3 goes as bad as some
    scenarios would have it.

    I suggested a reform program, which goes a lot deeper than merely
    nullifying the National Debt, nationalizing key institutions such as
    pensions, perhaps installing a new currency and completely restructuring
    the financial system, all the while spending money on the people who get
    hurt the most by all this work, because it would probably be a big
    economic crisis one way or the other. This was all needed one way or the
    other. It would not have been enough. The system of the economy itself
    has caused all this, and it needs to be restructured also. You cannot
    allow markets in land in perpetuity, and you can also not allow private
    wealth buildup _ad infinitum_ or business sizes to become insane. Etc.
    Some of these things however, can be implemented in a relatively soft
    manner, but nevertheless it would be a great work.

    The Torah suggested all this already back thousands of years ago. I also suggested it, in a bit of a different form, about 15 years ago already.
    If you had listened, World War 3 would potentially have forever been off
    the table, because the reason they will have it and can have it, is
    because there is no way forward for them otherwise. They have looted the economy (finances) into destruction, and they are afraid of the social consequences of such a severe economic crisis. To deal with that, they
    wage war. See the Weimar Republic. Revolution is a real threat. History
    shows that. War can prevent or stall a Revolution.

    Instead, you listened to your Rabbis, you listened to your politicians,
    you listened to your newspapers and the TV. You listened to your
    neighbors and friends, who listened to the TV and the newspapers. Now
    you are here, on the brink of World War 3, and facing a buildup of anti-semitism all over again. I warned you for that also, by the way.

    If you can only listen to the people with the money, with the money to
    buy the slickest most manipulative propaganda, what future can you have?
    What is the future of a country full of people like that ? You cannot
    live in a democracy, you will merely do what the evil super rich want
    anyway. You worship money, even if you don't know it. If you allow
    yourself to be manipulated by the mass media, you worship money, because
    that is what big money buys.

    If you cannot listen to the small voice, you are not worthy to live in
    a democratic, free and peaceful nation, because you cannot keep it that
    way. If someone whom seems not credible because his clothes might be
    dirty, or he doesn't speak well, or he has a checkered past of has been
    on the bottle for a while, if you cannot listen to this voice because
    he wasn't wearing an expensive suit, came riding in an expensive car,
    then *you* become the tyrant who steps on people who may have suffered injustice, you become the evil ones who tear your own Nation to shreds
    and feed it to the dogs. You are the problem. You are the war, you are
    the destroyer.

    *

    I tested this issue myself, and have proven that humanity failed. They
    can only listen to the rich. If you tell them something, then if they
    agree with you because they seem impressed with something, it is fake.
    They fake agreeing. They agree not because they do any thinking on the
    topic at hand at all, no. They agree because of social interaction
    reasons, or posturing. It's faked, it's a lie. Once they are impressed
    with someone else, and you tell them the same thing from a position of non-credibility, even if it is a purely logical thing so it is not a
    matter of eye witness accounts, then they will suddenly disagree with
    you. Because you are the lesser one. It has nothing to do with truth or
    false. Everything is social games with these people, worship of
    authority, which we also know under the name: idolatry.

    The god and idol of this world is the TV, and whatever the super rich
    are feeding them. It doesn't matter if it is logical or not, if it is
    true or not, if it fits history in any way or not, none of that is even
    thought about. The whole world is idolatry, and their idols are the
    super rich, the worst people in the world, who pretend to be good, they
    "look good".

    *

    I was thinking that this idolatry is what is going to change in the Jewish peolpe, as a consequence of the "second holocaust", 7 times worse than
    the Nazi holocaust (because the Torah says so, if that doesn't happen,
    take it up with the Torah, I am merely trying to interpret it honestly,
    but I could of course be wrong). After this massive 94% death rate
    against the Jewish people, the remainder might be utterly disillusioned
    with whatever they believed in before, and this includes the super rich
    and their TV, their lies and their fomented hysteria, but it also
    includes the Rabbis of Israel. I think that perhaps the Jewish people
    will finally get past their own idolatry. They will be so sick of
    listening to people and just believing them, because of the pain of this "second holocaust". "They got into this pain, because of all the people
    they had believed in."

    This then throws them back unto themselves, and I mean personally, not
    even as a group. Every single person is just so aghast of what is
    possible with this sick humanity, that they sort of withdraw into
    themselves. Here they start to think about things FOR THEMSELVES.

    This is where the future will hopefully be born. They will think for themselves. THey will no longer be impressed and indoctrinated by the
    Rabbis, which is particularly easy because there is so much greatness
    and goodness with the Torah and also with the Rabbis. Rabbis themselves
    might be a big group who is disillusioned also, and also start thinking
    for themselves, because they too have been indoctrinated and in awe of
    other historical Rabbis and sages and what not, but now this, this
    massive death rate, and also a people who no longer want to listen to
    them at all. That might also throw them back, I don't know, maybe. I'm
    not saying the Rabbis are bad, but I do say that they are not good
    enough at this point, because of the prosbul and failing to distribute
    the land to all (Jubilee on land). The economy is a *massive* force in
    society, I think probably the primary force in our whole culture. Land ownership is a *critical* issue with in it. These are not details. This
    is at the essence of the whole thing.

    Anyway, so this way it may come true what the Tanach has said, that God
    will teach them from now on. I would interpret that as meaning that the
    pupils (that's us, that's humanity) will deeply think for themselves and
    no longer be satisfied with themselves if they find they just "believe" something. Believing is not good enough. It has to be *understanding*
    and *knowing*. It is a big difference. Understanding and knowing is much deeper, more subtle and rich, it is something that is alive if you want.
    It can keep evolving also. You can think and rethink it, rethink it
    again, infinitely. You can experiment with it. You can even do it wrong
    (the economy), to see if it goes wrong (which is what humanity is going
    I guess, at great cost).

    Then they will start to realize, hopefully, how these things work. You
    cannot allow debt paid by debt (National Debt insanity). You need to
    distribute the land to all. You cannot just whore your mind away to some
    idol, no matter how rich they are. You need to be a good person. The
    Torah is true. THe Jewish people have themselves to blame for what
    happened. Their God only wanted the best for them, but they refused to
    listen. There is no difference between the most critical, harsh and
    secular science, and the God of the Jewish people. It is all one.

    May this Israel live forever, God willing. They will have rectified
    themselves, and can rectify huminaty. All will have ended well, for
    those with the will to go through with it to the end. Israel will have
    united with their God, the truth. No more deaf ears (I don't mean
    physical deaf ears, but mentally, also emotionally and socially) and
    no more idolatry.

    No more idolatry. No more monkey behavior, no more domination through
    violence. Domination through truth and creativity, through caring if you
    will. This is the way humanity can survive, being as technologically
    powerful as it is becoming. Then humanity would finally have made it,
    from almost an animal to a creative being, a farmer and even doing other
    things than farming, settled on the land, at peace with each other,
    knowing what they want and need to do with the Earth, so that everyone
    and everything can have a life.

    *

    By the way, I already went through pain, perhaps more than you will go
    through, but who knows it is hard to compare. I have already thought for myself, and these are my conclusions. Thinking by the way, isn't
    necessarily any fun. It is not some random muzings in the afternoon. No,
    it is puzzling and trying to see something that stays dark. You cannot
    find the answer, for weeks, for years. You don't want to know the pain I
    have had. It is not normal, and for 30 years or so, maybe more. There is
    no word for this pain in the language. The word "pain" is not accurate. Fortunately it seems mostly past now, and I am starting to forget.

    You did not have to go through what's coming for you, but you chose to
    be deaf, you chose to be idolatrous and to believe the absurd. To be
    dishonest like the prosbul, and illogical like the National Debt paying
    debt with debt, and unfair and confused with the ownership of your land.
    I told you it was wrong, but I had no credibility in your eyes. I was
    not one of your idols. The cost will be great.

    You chose this, because you wanted to fit in with your friends, you lacked
    the spine which Abraham had when he stood up against his father while
    smashing the idols, or the courage Moshe Rabbeinu had when he killed
    the two Egyptian guards. They went against everything and everyone,
    for the truth and for justice sake. Everyone ! If you want to walk in
    their footsteps, you need to be able to stand alone against the whole
    world if need be, if you know you are right, and that includes even to
    stand up against people who otherwise seem great, friendly and wise,
    such as some of the Rabbis of Israel.

    I remember well that some mothers or parents of people in the moderated
    group here said they did not want their children to read what I was
    writing. Why not ? Because it doesn't fit in, because it isn't
    subservient to "the usual". It breaks the mold. It is a form of unknown
    and therefore led to panic. The truth of the matter was of no interest
    to them, clearly. There is no excuse for the prosbul, which is what this
    was about mostly if I recall. This is the cowardice, this is the
    idolatry. The wanting to fit in. Are you the ones who stayed behind in
    Egypt, because you wanted to fit in, and didn't dare break the mold ?

    One issue with idolatrous people is, that they DO NOT THINK, there is no
    logic in their brains. If you challenge one of their idols, it is not
    about the logic or the truth, you merely put yourself up as a competing
    idol. This is how deep it goes, how hopeless and senseless it is. Their
    whole being is idolatry. There is no mind, there is no logic, there is
    no thinking, there is no truth if you will. There is only mindless subservience, there is wanting to belong, the emotion of belonging no
    matter what. Is this how the masses in the west of England fell under
    the spell of the Druids, despite their legendary bravery in war ? They
    did dare wage war with complete disregard for their own lives, but they
    did not dare stand up against these reportedly child murdering Druids,
    these freaks who would ... let's not even talk of these people who have rightfully met their end by death.

    Closer to home for Israel, there was this child murdering cult. Did
    those people fail to rebel their idols, because they wanted to fit in,
    because they didn't dare ? Abraham dared stand up against his people,
    Moshe Rabbeinu - who at that time was raised at the Egyption court -
    dared stand up against everything and his own people, and now look: you
    are their children, you went with Moshe Rabbeinu, and now you are
    probably the most famous and influential people in the whole world, and
    this is just the start.

    No amount of talk will help with idolators, because every word works in
    their brain like this "he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our
    idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be
    our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants
    to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he
    wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our
    idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be
    our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants
    to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he
    wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol,
    he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our
    idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be
    our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to
    be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants
    to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, he wants to be our idol, ..." infinitely, never ending, completely mindless and ignorant to the bone."
    It simply doesn't stop, it simply doesn't ever stop. It creates hatred
    and anger, derision. This is really what's going on, I believe at least.
    You can see it, because there is no answer, no debate, no logic,
    nothing. A mindless people without a future. A slave to whatever the
    idols might be, it doesn't even matter so long as you fit in and keep
    your head down. The idols are nice ? Okay fine. The idols sacrifice
    children and wage war ? Okay fine. Well, they might have a bit of an
    opinion here even to the good side, if a choice presented itself, but
    that is about it.

    This is the attitude, even if I exaggerate for clarity, which brought
    you to the mess you are in, and this potential for a second holocaust, 7
    times worse than the Nazi holocaust, in which 19 out of every 20 Jews
    might die (!). This is the attitude your whole Torah is against, but it
    is clearly still there. Still there are these little groups who worship
    this or that person, while the great masses now simply worship the one
    eyed monster with the thousand lying tongues (the television).

    **

    Okay that was that - time to ride bikes today XD. I see some blue sky!
    Thank goodness, lots of rain these days over here (Netherlands). Have a
    nice day. lol, Madly typing here. I want to write shorter but it always
    gets longer.
    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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