title: Mashiach: Now or Never
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmuGREYwQjs
source: Efraim Palvanov

In this video the Rabbi explains that the Torah says the Jewish people
have been in Egypt for 430 years, and *not* 210 years. The calculation
of the commonly accepted Jewish current year is based on the time in
Egypt taking only 210 years. This is based on a list of generations.

It makes more sense that this is the year 6,003 then, as you said,
because if it is twice in there even, it becomes treason to deny it,
whereas this calculation of generations is just a calculation ? There
is something interesting here as well, which is this Hopi "end of the
world" thing in 2012. I looked a little closer into it, and it seemed
that what they where saying was very different from what our habitually
lying mass media claimed. The mass media claimed 2012 would be like the
Earth will burn down. What I got from some Hopi websites was that in
their view humanity goes through different periods, and that there is
a time of about 20 years roughly from 2000 until 2020, where humanity
was going to determine how the next greater period was going to look
like. The key year in this 20 year period between ages would more or less
be 2012. The whole thing could pass without much being even noticeable
(my interpretation). Now all of a sudden, the Jewish calendar ending in
6,000 being 3 years ago, and the Hopi calendar, they line up.

In a cultural sense, I think the Hopi people got it right and are
now vindicated - except in our fraudulent mass media. Perhaps the mass
media tried to hide something, like a moral appeal by the Hopi people to humanity, that wouldn't be unusual. In 1989 the great USA orchestrated
global Divide & Conquer ended, and there was this brief period with less violence, even though the criminal Clinton was elected boss of USA. In
2001 the USA attacks itself "9/11", and they start a whole new series
of wars and terrorism. They also pass the tyrannical PATRIOT Act (made
up ahead of time). In 2008 the banks take over the Treasury and the
economic system is dead on principle, the money printing starts. 2014
the Obama-Nazi coup in Kiev, and the seeds for World War 3 to control
the social troubles that where going to likely come out of 2008 where
planted (Russia versus USA, it can only be this to have a big war). These developments are all happening and successful for the criminal element,
and they lead to the current situation: global finance on the brink and -
not by accident - the world also no the brink of WW3.

If you go back to this Hopi vision, you could say that humanity chose
evil for 20 years, and neglected the Torah, and this will determine the
future. The future is going to be bad. Tyranny and wars, death. This is
then now starting to come to fruition. Time for choices is over. This
then connects also with the Jewish expectation that the time of the
Redemption will be exceptionally deadly. By the way, I was wondering
if the Redemption needs to be so exceptionally deadly, because so many
Jewish people are not good enough to live in a Redeemed Israel, because
they will just mess it up all over again.

If the promises have been made that this Redemption is forever, this
could imply that everyone who is not keeping the Torah and fighting for
it against all odds if need be, everyone who is too weak or everyone who
is like a dead weight on the others who are enthusiastic for the Torah,
will be taken out of Israel and never be part of Israel ever again. With
the power of birth in the hands of Hashem, this is a way to maintain the promise of an eternal Redemption. I am of course merely speculating. The
total size of the Redemption, I mean the size of the Nation of Israel
after the Redemption, would then be just as big as everyone who can be
relied upon to _forever_ keep the Torah (truth, justice, a friendly
people, a helping people, a generous people, etc etc). Implying, the
rest will have to be stripped out. By death.

This then connects to the punishment section in the Torah, where every
round will be 7 times worse. The last round was the Nazi holocaust. Since
then the Jewish people have obviously not done Teshuvah, the Rabbis
didn't even bother to repeal the prosbul (and heter iska), so it's quite hopeless, especially if you see the holy land has not been distributed to
all (!!!). Really, I mean, how dare you not do that. Here is the Torah,
it's clear as day, and flat out not doing it. Anyway, so I computed this:
the Nazi holocaust took away ¹/₃ of the Jewish population. If you
do that 7 times, you end up with for example this: (1 - (²/₃)⁷)
× population, which is close to 600 000.

Sorry to go on about it, but it is in the Torah that we should always talk about the Torah, right ? So this should be ok then. More is better even
? ;-) Also, if we look at the rise of technology the last few centuries,
it is incredible. This _is_ a whole other world. It has been ox carts
and tedious hand labor for thousands of years, one way or the other,
no ? Instead of ox carts we have satellites buzzing through space,
and instead of tedious hand labor we have robots doing ever more of
already quite complicated production work, with every chance being an
almost total take over of labor by technological tools. It really is
a different world all of a sudden, isn't it. The world as we knew it,
already ended. We didn't really notice it, because the process was a
bit slow, and we get born into it somewhere along the line.

6 000 years ago, the peak of production was someone pushing a cow in
some direction, and maybe a generation or two ago the farmers would
get up in the morning to tediously milk them. 6 000 years ago, someone
tried using a simple tool to cut down wheat, and a few generations ago
they still did it by hand, still sharpened their hand tool by hand. It
may have been slightly better, but more or less the same. Today ... one
guy sits in an Imperial carry along Throne with music of choice, nice
and cozy, and all by himself he is harvesting huge fields of wheat,
which is all automatically separated and dumped in a wagon behind him,
and within just a few years we could see the guy doesn't even have to
leave the house anymore. He doesn't even have to decide on harvesting
anymore either. This is just the start, the technology keeps speeding
up as well. It's not slowing down, it is speeding up. Technology is used
to create even more technology, so it feeds itself. The world as we know
it already ended people !

Are humans using their new powers for good, so that we can keep them
? Well ... obviously not. No, the powers are abused. ... Human history is
now seriously off the rails. I fear a high technological tyranny. In the
old days, the repression forces had swords and bows, but they still needed people, and the people got get sticks together. A sword and a shovel are different, but not hugely. A well entrenched high technological Tyranny however, I don't know what that will mean. The power imbalance between
a criminal ruling class and their serfs might be extremely much worse
suddenly, and then what ? Maybe that is what it meant, that we had to
have gotten things right by this time. However, humanity didn't get it
right. They did not learn the Torah, they did not learn how to be fair
with the powers of farming and how to handle land and wealth in this
new way of living (growing crops, living settled lives, and herding
animals). That is the world which was created 6 000 years ago or so,
the Neolithic Revolution. Farming .. Gardening. Garden of Eden, right ?
It's all pretty obvious, isn't it. It's all about gardening and it's consequences.

<-- Couldn't keep my mouth shut as usual. ;-)
--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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Title: How Many Years Were the Israelites in Egypt?
Author: Dr. David Glatt-Gilad https://www.thetorah.com/article/how-many-years-were-the-israelites-in-egypt

Exodus 12:40 declares that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430
years, yet evidence from other biblical texts suggests a much
shorter sojourn.

End quote.

Title: Exodus (12)
https://www.sefaria.org/Exodus.12.40?lang=bi&aliyot=0

(Torah:)

The length of time that the Israelites lived in Egypt was four
hundred and thirty years; at the end of the four hundred and
thirtieth year, to the very day, all the ranks of יהוה departed
from the land of Egypt.

End quote.

Another article on the topic:

Title: Vaera | The Genealogy of Moshe
Author: Rav Michael Hattin https://www.etzion.org.il/en/tanakh/torah/sefer-shemot/parashat-vaera/vaera-genealogy-moshe

(Torah:)

These are the names of Levi’s sons in order: Gershon, Kehat and
Merari, and Levi lived to be one hundred and thirty-seven.
(...)
The sons of Kehat were ‘Amram, Yitzhar, Chevron and ‘Uziel, and
Kehat lived to be one hundred and thirty-three.
(...)
‘Amram took as his wife Yocheved his aunt, and she bore him Aharon
and Moshe, and ‘Amram lived to be one hundred and thirty-seven.
(...)
These were Aharon and Moshe, to whom God spoke and said “liberate
the people of Israel from the land of Egypt with all of their
hosts!” They were the ones who spoke to Pharaoh king of Egypt
to take out the people of Israel from Egypt, none other than Moshe
and Aharon…(6:14-27).

End quote.

(Torah, Genesis 46:)

God called to Israel in a vision by night: “Jacob! Jacob!” He
answered, “Here.”

“I am God, the God of your father’s [house]. Fear not to go
down to Egypt, for I will make you there into a great nation.

I Myself will go down with you to Egypt, and I Myself will also
bring you back; and Joseph’s hand shall close your eyes.”

So Jacob set out from Beer-sheba. The sons of Israel put their
father Jacob and their children and their wives in the wagons that
Pharaoh had sent to transport him;

and they took along their livestock and the wealth that they had
amassed in the land of Canaan. Thus Jacob and all his offspring
with him came to Egypt:

he brought with him to Egypt his sons and grandsons, his daughters
and granddaughters—all his offspring.

These are the names of the Israelites, Jacob and his descendants,
who came to Egypt. Jacob’s first-born Reuben;
(...)
Levi’s sons: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari.
^^^^^^
End quote.

Apparently this is a major problem. I don't know the answer to this
either. On the one hand it is clearly said 430 years in Egypt, even
twice, and then there are Geneologies listed which do not allow for
the same amount of time.

Is it possible the geneologies are listed wrong ? I guess so, but
anything else could also be listed wrong in that case. Are mistakes made quicker in a listing of who is born from whom, or in counting years to
the tune of centuries. Can you count time so wrong, that 430 becomes 220
years ? It seems hard to believe, unless it was already much later again
before things where finally written down in the sense that it reached
the present day.

It seems possible that it was easier to remember the early geneology of
the tribes of Israel, because those concerned the forefathers of them
all, whereas eventually there where reportedly some 600 000 people to
keep track off. Maybe they all remembered the early story the best, and
the rest was lost ? Even in that case, the text of the Torah would still
be off.

It seems possible that 100 couples could produce 600 000 people in
generations, if each gets 10 children. 50 × 10⁴ = 500 000. It is hard to believe also that Moshe Rabbeinu and many others would not know who
their grandfathers where.

I don't know the answer to the problem, but it is intriguing that
apparently we would now be in the Jewish year 6004 already, in a long
Egypt stay count. The short Egypt stay count apparently leads to the
current year being 5784.

5784 + (430 - 210) = 6,004

It is interesting because the Redemption is supposed to happen before
the year 6 000. If one subscribes to the idea that the Torah is exactly
what it needs to be, down to the last letter, then I suppose there is an argument to be made that the current time is at least a possible time
that the Redemption should happen.

You could talk endlessly about this timing I guess, for example to say
that because it was 30 years late in Egypt (as the promise was 400 years
in Egypt), it might now again be 30 years late, but what use is it
anyway.

*

The job is to repeal the prosbul for starters, and distribute the land
to all as an inalienable right. This is the economic dimension of a
Nation who chooses justice and peace. If they don't want to even do
these obvious things, the Redemption is clearly unwanted, and the choice
is for war, and eventually for death.

Is it that bad ? Unfortunately I do think so. People tend to underestimate
how seemingly irrelevant choices (to them irrelevant I guess) work over the course of centuries. There has to be an effect *against* the
centralization of wealth in the economy, or it will spiral out of
control. This is not the Stone Age anymore, we are not hunter gatherers.
Things stack up. If someone owns much more land than others, and he is
giving it all to his oldest son, this has no end. It goes on century by
century by century, thousands of years it could go on.

In the Stone Age the leveling factor was what you could carry on your
back. It didn't matter if you had the best of everything, it was leveled
quite soon. Even if you ruled a family, the size of groups was not that
big at all. Even much later when farming already started, many
settlements where tiny. However, the build up starts when you are
settled on the land.

Israel does not want to be Redeemed. They do not want to live in peace
and Justice. They do not want to do what is necessary to stabilize
settled life and farming on Earth, where we have this potential for
basically infinite buildup of wealth in one person, but also a possibly infinite buildup of new technology. First slow, but now it really took
off, literally like a rocket. It doesn't work with a hunter-gatherer
mindset, and yes that is what humans have. They are fighting each other
over who owns what, trying to exploit each other's labor where they can,
and eventually the madness breaks out in huge masses of people simply
killing eath other, often over nothing and to no effect for both sides.

You can choose to be a good farmer and keeper of animals, and then you
have to do what all that entails. You can also choose to be a hunter
gatherer, and then you can do what that implies. You can however not
have it both ways. You have to choose, because if you couple the
violence and simplicity of the Stone hunter-gatherer with their small
scale social and economic systems with the power of farming and all that
it can become, we get the world we have now: absolutely crazy weapons
pointing every way, and a looming threat of a high technological
dystopian tyranny over the mindless masses, perhaps locking them into a
hellish Tyranny ... forever ?

You have to choose. If you pretend to not choose, to go on with the
present modes of living (mad out of control trade in everything, the
greed and the mindlessness and the violence), then this will probably
lead to a natural self correction. It is very possible that humanity
will do so much damage, that they end up back as hunter gatherers. There
are already many movies about this possible scenario. It is looming
large.

Even if humanity thinks to conquer the Cosmos, it seems merely a matter
of time before humanity will have to deal with an enemy, because the
present humanity is so violent, domination and greed obsessed that they
will make anyone their enemy sooner or later, especially if the current
type of ruling class remains in control (who are criminals of the worst
sort), then we get destroyed by them, and then we could enter the Stone
Age as hunter-gatherers again also. I know this is very theoretical, but
I don't see the future with this violence of humanity. I think it is a
dead end, sooner or later.

On the contrary, if humanity gets things together in good order, even if
we would one day be spread out between many stars, we being friendly and peaceful with each other implies we have so much more chance to find the
same living already between the stars as well. Rather than war, the
opposite happens, and we all survive even better. This is a future. War
is not a future. There is no reason for war. The only reason for war
that could have been, was to defeat big animals, but we defeated them
now already with our tools, which became massively much more powerful
thanks to creativity and good work: farming, settled life. This is our
power: work and creativity, good friendly positive relations with other
people. To help and teach each other. That is the power, that is survival,
that is the future.

Alas, Israel doesn't want to do what's needed, let alone the other
Nations, they even less. They do not want the Redemption, even if by
some count - and not even a too far out of the traditional count -
it is already past the year 6 000. The Redemption has to be here and
now, also if you look at all the Rabbis who say the same, and I think
they are right. If Israel had wanted it, it should already have happened.
I guess not even wanting to repeal the prosbul is like a sign, like a
canary in the coal mine. There is no effort put in. It is just talk.
They "want the Redemption, want 'moshiach now'", but it is mostly just
talk.

Distribute the land to all. Now that would be something impressive.
Death is the only salvation for humanity now it seems. Only through
suffering they will realize their error. Many might sadly learn the wrong lesson from it, and become even worse.

P.S. Jewish people in the USA now buy weapons ? I told you so, didn't I,
how many years ago ? In this very newsgroup. It won't do you much
good in the end though, if it doesn't support being good people.
First do good, study the Torah if you don't know, and then go to
the range and learn shooting too. There might be a war worth
fighting for, but it is always good to be prepared if it doesn't
cost too much.

Well, there you go. The debt is imploding. It wasn't hard to predict
that. Everyone with half a brain knew that was coming. I told an
older man once, and he said they already knew that in the 1960s
that it was over. He was right. It is sad so many of you are going
to die.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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