On 2023-11-10, Susan Cohen <
thickirish@cunt.com> wrote:
The Forced War: When Peaceful Revision Failed (Hardcover)
David L. Hoggan
Hardcover book. 830 pages
Back in Print! Completely reset and reformatted new IHR edition.
In this pathbreaking study of the origins of the Second World War, Dr.
Hoggan explains why Hitler decided to attack Poland in 1939, and
examines the short-sighted policies that made war all but inevitable.
He examines the familiar claims about British “appeasement,” the “shameful” Munich agreement, and the “rape” of Czechoslovakia. He dismantles the often-repeated charge of sole German responsibility for
the 1939 war, which for many years has been a centerpiece of the
prevailing narrative of twentieth century history.
The eminent American historian Harry E. Barnes called this "the first thorough study of the responsibility for the causes of the Second
World War in any language ... likely to remain the definitive
revisionist work on this subject for many years." Based on the
author's Harvard University doctoral dissertation, this is diplomatic
history of the first order.
This masterful, detailed work of analysis and insight is an
authoritative rebuttal to the propagandistic works of “establishment” historians. Especially good for details of how high-level Polish and
British officials considered options and reached decisions in the
years and months leading to the outbreak of war.
BritainÂ’s actual foreign policy moves following its fateful March 31,
1939, “blank check” guarantee to Poland, Hoggan writes, “were directed unrelentingly toward war.” During the months leading to the outbreak
of hostilities, he adds, “Britain was encouraging Poland to adopt a
hostile policy toward Germany despite the generous terms which Hitler
had offered for a lasting German-Polish settlement.”
“The unreasonable attitude adopted by the Polish government in 1939 is
no mystery when one considers the grandiose British assurances to
Poland after August 1938,” Hoggan concludes. “The Polish leaders made
a German-Polish war inevitable by creating a permanent crisis and
refusing to negotiate for its solution.”
Completely reset and reformatted new edition. With an introduction by
Mark Weber, dust jacket, detailed index, source notes, extensive bibliography, map, and 30 photographs.
It seems this book points to some politicians making some statements,
had some policies regarding other Nations, may have been rude during a
meeting with their foreign counter parts, and this caused the war ? If
not, could you be a little bit more specific ?
While it is certainly possible that the 1st and 2nd World War was
nothing more than the usual wicked people of various National ruling
classes wanted another round of war to see if they could get more loot
for themselves, using whatever propaganda excuses they could find to
motivate their troops to kill themselves for their worst enemy (their
own bosses), there was also something else happening at the time: unrest
in the exploited, poor and suffering labor masses.
At the time of World War 1 already there was severe labor masses
pressure against the ruling class, which in 1917 led to Revolutions in
both Russia and Germany. After World War 1, a war which was impacted by
these Revolutions which shows that these Revolutions where not minor
events, and before World War 2, the German economy suffered hyper
inflation in 1924 and the Great Depression hit the western world in 1929 (IIRC).
Now look at the strength and impact of these types of events:
Event 1. A massive mobilaziot and war effort called World War 1, with
its long lasting hellish trench warfare between France and
Germany.
Event 2. Communist Revolutions in both Germany and Russia.
Event 3. The massive central European Empire called Germany, which for a
human already is an incomprehensible amount of land and people,
suffered hyper inflation. This affects every single person in
that Empire, deeply.
Event 4. Great Depression, we all still heard a lot about that, didn't
we (perhaps because it hit the heartland of the global Empire
USA).
Event 5. The rise of the Nazis.
Event 6. World War 2, that this was a major event doesn't need to be
discussed.
The way I personally at least try to understand human history and
events, is that the major events are extremely complex because of the
amount of people involved (and for every single person you could make a
movie of how their life went), and because of this complexity there can
and likely are many causes of major events, because often different
people will support an event for different reasons. Once enough people
with enough power have their interests lined up for something major to
happen, then it is more likely to happen.
A serious war between Germany and Russia is an absolutely major event
in Europe, because of the sizes of these Empires, the people involved,
etc.
A succesful or even near succesful Revolution in either of these Empires
is likewise a major event, if the shift in politics in power is worthy
of the word Revolution, which at the time of the Communist versus
Capitalist ideologies was indeed the case. In Russia, the feudal age old
regime of their Tyrants came to an end. In Germany, after the war there
was an attempt at a Left Revolution, but it was destroyed by the center
left "social democratic" forces allied with what later became the Nazis,
and afterwards the Nazis took power and started World War 2.
How many people involved in a Revolution, how many in a war ? Serious
amounts.
Then we compare these events to a bunch of Government people having an
argument with each other ? The Polish Government wasn't nice to the
Germans, and the Brittish Government people where a bit scammy in their promises to the Polish ? Some illusions where created ? How many people
does this involve ? 100 people maybe ? On the scale of the Nation, even
though these may be some of the most powerful people, it is small to the
point of not even existing.
So this would be my argument: it doesn't matter what the Polish or
German or Brittish or whatever Governments where doing with each other,
if other powers in these Nations where not interested in making a war
happen, they have the power to stop it. Example: does the French
Government right now have the power to order an attack on Italy ?
Answer: no, because other powers will stop it. There first needs to be a buildup of anger and reasons for war, of various groups who want the war
to happen for their own reasons, and then the whole thing can be pushed
over the edge by their combined effort. Who is more powerful than the Government ? The newspaper. The people don't listen to the Parliament,
the Parliament is far too longwinded. The people read the headlines in
the papers, or today listen to the TV, so that is where much of the
power is. Who owns the newspapers ? The super rich do. They are in turn connected to the economy, they own the biggest companies, banks and hold
the most land. If this Oligarchy doesn't want war, the Government might
be tripped and sacked by their effort in a week or two. They can
organize a scandal or whatever, and tell the masses what to do using
their propaganda.
The way this plays out then, is that this labor unrest is a major factor
for the actual powers in society. The actual power is not the
Government. The Government is mostly influenced by this actual power,
which is the super rich, who own the mass media and so on. The super
rich create the politicians and their parties, or at least have a major influence upon it. They don't have total control, but they probably have
the most influence. They probably have more influence than the entire Parliament put together. It seems to me like the super rich are the gas
pedal and the steering wheel, while the population can only control the
brakes.
The point is: if major events as described above are like super tanker
freight ships on the sea, then minor events like the Brittish Government writing some words on paper is barely a duck in the water, and the
Polish Government being mean to some other politicians is little more
than a seagul in the air or a drifting branch in the water.
The interests of the ruling class, the super rich, are to maintain their control and money, and for them there can be no greater worry and event
than a labor uprising against their evil regime upon their wage slaves.
The control over their wage slaves is their whole life. This is their
source of money and power. To maximize this exploitation is what they
live for, from generation to generation.
A serious Revolution such as 1917 Germany and Russia is one massive
freight ship of an event, while World War 1 and 2 are similarly massive
freight ships on the sea, as it where. You can calculate the size of
these virtual ships, for example, by calculating how many people where
involved in either operation, for how many hours and for how much money
(etc). If you calculate this for Russia, you end up with something like "everything", because that Revolution took over and the previous regime
was ended forever. World War 2 likewise was "everything" in Russia, or
almost, because it probably impacted everything, as even in the villages
the young men where torn from their families, while other villages where annihilated in the war itself.
The siege of Leningrad impacted that city in a major way obviously. That
was war. The capture of Paris by the Communists earlier, likewise
impacted that city a lot. These are events which play on a similar
level.
A piece of paper by the Brittish Government doesn't hold a candle by the severity of any of this, unless it is part of something different which
is major.
It now happens to be the case, that war helps the ruling class maintain
their control over their labor masses. If the labor masses are restless,
a war will calm them down. Unemployed people are send to the front to
die. Harsh laws become acceptable to the people, so that strikes can be
broken with ease. This is just the general of it. War controls people.
War with another Country stops an internal Rebellion or Revolution. The
fear for the foreign enemy drives the people to unity with their abusive
ruling class, which they formerly where criticizing and threatening.
If we look closer at World War 2, we see how in this case there is a
strong link between the Nazis, who where also funded by the American
ruling class (including grandfather Bush of the notorious Bush crime
family), and the effort to control the unrest in the German labor
masses. I think it is fair to say that the ruling class of Germany,
funded and allowed the Nazis to take over, so that they would destroy
this unrest in their wage slaves. The Nazis set about to literally
*kill* everyone part of this unrest, which included many Jewish people
and also Socialists and Communists. If the second world war had not
happened, the Nazis would have been known for these domestic attrocitis
of laying Tyranny down upon the German labor masses and their
organizations, outright murdering them.
We then have the Nazis also attacking Russia. By the time it is all
over after World War 2, the labor organizations have been defeated, and
the USA has conquered western Europe, while Russia conquered eastern
Europe. This conquest by America then in turn gives a clue to the
American need to have this war between Germany and Russia, because that
would deplete the European Nations and make it easier for USA to conquer
them. That would explain some of their hand in it, but compared to the
labor unrest, this was probably still a more minor event than the need
of the German and other ruling classes to support something Fascistic to destroy domestic labor unrest.
Therefore I propose: the second world war was a war between the ruling
class of the western world, against their own people. The rest was mere
details to make it happen. You see it in the lead up to the events, you
see it in the makeup of the actors involved, and you see it in the
results achieved. USA exploits the situation, and conquers half of
Europe in the process.
All kinds of seemingly strange details start falling into place if you
want to deal with reality this way, such as why the so-called European
Union happened after the second world war, and why this is so much the
same as the Nazis their plans (!). People and their illusions, it is
sometimes so tiring. Yes, the Nazi 3rd Reich and the European Union are
very similar, if not the exact same thing.
How does the ruling class make money ? By extracting the difference
between the market value of what people do by working for them, and the
wages they get. Where do these products go ? Into a market. How big is
the market ? There is a National and international component to the
market. Certainly back then you would face the obstacle of marketing
your product through a border, and sometimes a Nation would block a lot
of foreign trade for some reason.
If you are the super rich ruling class of for example Germany, and you
are nearing or at the maximum of control over your people, then what is
the logical next step ? Conquering another Nation and subjugating their
lands and people to you. Then you have even more money and power, and in
the case of the Capitalist system, a larger domestic market. All kinds
of companies in the enemy territory which can be replaced by your
operations, if you managed to destroy them somehow. While this is not
be more important than keeping your local wage slaves under control, it nevertheless remains a natural goal of the super rich greed obsessed
mindset, which many of these ruling class characters suffer from (they
are basically apes, they always want more dominance, even if they might
not fully understand why they even need that; just rudimentary ape
instincts at work).
It doesn't matter that much who or what the Government is, because it
will be under the control of the propaganda system owned by the ruling
class. The Government center could be in Berlin and be a vicious
Dictatorship, or it could be in Brussels and be an easily corruptable
bunch of spineless bureaucrats with an insanely large and far away
and therefore easily ignored voter base ... on it's way to the eventual Dictatorial takedown just as happened to the Weimar Republic or ancient
Rome (etc). The market is now much larger, and that is the point.
One difference however is that while the German Ruling class was a major
power in Germany with the Nazis under their wings, due to the Americans conquering western Europe and Russia conquering eastern Europe, the
American super rich where now going to benefit from this super large
domestic market in Europe. They made new Vassals, who pay them tribute
and send their men to die for them, and can then set about to infiltrate profitable elements of the conquered States. Because these States had
forms of democracy, it made sense to unite them, so that these
democracies could be destroyed all at once. It is the same mindset and
the same goals to have this large market and larger domestic Empire. It
was even in both cases people who helped finance the Nazis, which where
the German ruling class (Fritz Thyssen, steel, IIRC), and the American
ruling class (also involving probably as mere agents the aforementioned
Bush crime family).
On principle, the E.U. and the 3rd Reich function in similar ways, for
the Capitalist ruling class. There are some differences and also some
shocking similarities. One shocking similarity is that many actual Nazis
took part in setting up the European Union, including (according to some reports) the first President of the then widely unknown E.U. was a top
Nazi Lawyer Walter Hallstein, aide to Hitler himself (FWIK). Do people
even know that the E.U. was basically unknown to the populations within
Europe, and later mostly ignored, even up to the year 2000 ? We also
have Prince Bernhard. It cannot be surprising therefore that there is
this continuity, because of the similar Capitalist / greed goals of the
Nazi financiers and the Nazis themselves, remained the same.
There are also some differences. As mentioned, now the USA is the main
power in western Europe and Russia in eastern Europe. Because of USA propaganda, they needed to do enough for Democracy and so on, to remain credible. THe USA also faced the problem of having conquered an area and peoples who by culture and size are more powerful than them. I think
this dictated how the American ruling class had to tread carefully and
mind being seen as the good guys in the second world war, rather than
what they had actually done: finance the Nazis to get Europe into a
devastating war, destroy the labor unrest to the degree possible, and
then conquer these weakened Nation. This reading of events would have to
remain secret, as well as the Nazi roots of the European Union and its
goals (or say, real effects rather than the fake propaganda about unity
and friendship).
The E.U. was mostly invisible up to about the year 2000 or so because
at least Dutch newspapers and media ignored the E.U. as they knew the population did not want the E.U. to exist or influence our Parliamentary politics. The Dutch Government famously refused to have a Referendum on
the E.U. taking over our country, because they knew it would be
rejected. They once eventually tried with a E.U. Constitution, and where rebuffed. Later they enacted this Constitution anyway, under a new name:
Treaty of Lisbon (FWIK, at least it was claimed IIRC that this extremely complicated treaty was nothing more than a obtuse rewriting of said Constitution). This shows how unwanted the international Domination of
the E.U. was, also at a time that NATO was widely hated as the war
machine that it is, and these operations comprise important parts of the American post war stabilization of their western European conquests. The Americans had to be careful, they had to seep in the poison of their
control slowly. It seems that they have dealt with the trouble of labor
unrest in Europe, by making the labor masses a lot richer, which perhaps
also became easier due to modern production methods.
Now that the European Union is entrenched, the current generations are sufficiently propagandized and don't have much of a clue about what
really happened, the European Union Vassal system of America, American
economic infiltration in Europe and perhaps a sort of uniting of these Oligarchies, the screws can be put back on to the labor class. The poor
can be made poorer again, rights can be stripped away, because the
US Empire has entrenched itself sufficiently to not be dislodged so
easily. The ruling classes of all these European Nations are now
subservient to the greater western ruling class with its center weight
in the USA. The USA also did this by making some of these people rich,
at least the politicians in this so-called European Parliament. These
people are simply bribed, and this money corrupts all political parties
in all European Nation States - which is a simple but genious system
of insidious control. It allows a carreer path from a Nation political
party earning such and so, to work for the Evil Empire more directly in Brussels and then see a huge gain in your personal income. These people
are still part of national political parties, whom they then infiltrate
with the poison of E.U. control.
Current young people are so ignorant about the past, because they
weren't alive and may not care enough or have enough time to make up the difference, that they accept the Empire as a given. They see
increasingly corrupt and hopeless National politics, which now become
backwater Provincial politics with reduced powers and increased
corruption from the top end of the Empire, that they see no way out, as
the ruling class prepares for a new round of worsening exploitation of
the labor masses.
With that, the circle is going back to where it began. Entrenched
Empires, wars and the threat of a World War for Empire and to keep labor
under control, increasing poverty and disillusion with the ruling class
by the people. Mad money printing is going full swing, which probably
will end in hyper inflation. Russia is again the enemy. People who want
rights and democracy are already branded crazy, when they stood against
the eventually absurd and potentially Tyrannical (forced injections)
Corona virus policies. USA prepared it's Tyranny with the PATRIOT act
and recently ratifying torture (while Hollywood movies are full of
torture these days as well), and even on the global level a Tyranny is
prepared in law (UDHR art. 29 section 3).
Is there anything we should have learned ? Yes, good people should have
learned a lot of things. However, they did not.
Personal note, or maybe not: I did try to learn from the mistakes of the
labor rebellions which culminated in 1917, and propose our renewed
initiative below (signature). This time it will not be an ad-hoc effort
on a radical and radically simplistic model or ideology full of
grandioze but unrealistic ideas lacking almost all detail and only the
most rudimentary time path (from "Socialism" to "Communism" ?), which
quickly boiled down to "Whatever Lenin said", and then unfortunately to
... "Whatever Stalin said". In Germany the whole effort was destroyed,
even though it seemed to be a more sophisticated event, with less
radicalism but perhaps therefore also less direction and less
discipline.
In broad terms, what I am proposing 1. is a functioning economy rather
than the over simplified Stone Age clan thinking of Communism over far
too many people. The economy has to be market based, however land has to
be distributed to all by right in equal amount, while larger companies
should function under the control of those who work there (if possible),
and extreme wealth needs to be outlawed. Being rich still has to be ok,
because some people work better than others and this has to be rewarded.
So long as the differences do not become extreme, the unity of the people should not break down. A lazy drunk who never wants to learn a thing,
simply isn't worth as much as a prudent hard working man who makes his costumers satisfied. Sorry, but the lazy good-for-nothing brainless twit
even needs the poverty he created for himself, so that he will realize
he could do better if he tried.
2. While I do propose a high end democratic State, it is not clear if
the populations are capable of sitting with each other peacefully and so
on. At least the model is now worked out in all necessary detail, which
makes it have discipline, have predictability and become at least in
theory doable. Because too many people seem to be ill behaved, I propose
a slow time path for this and even all these things. Not a grandioze mad
dash for power using open warfare, but rather just the opposite: try to
be good first on your own time, perhaps in small minority and not even
claiming to aim yet for Sovereign power. Start an organization to clean
the streets, or something positive nobody can oppose, and organize it on proposed State democratic model. If you cannot make that happen, forget
about anything else. If you can, then be positive and maybe the
organization will grow. If it grows enough, eventually you will enter
politics by the nature of it, hopefully in a peaceful and good way. It
can indeed be a velvet Revolution, a slow gradual cultural event, even
taking centuries to happen.
I also notice that, while politicians are often assumed to be corrupt,
there are also a lot of them who simply try to do a good job in all
these various local and National Parliaments. There is a lot of work and debating involved, and it is not clear at all if the average citizen
will do better than them (I think, probably not even close). Still,
there is corruption and greed, but this is also endemic in the
population, and therefore having a better democracy will not necessarily
help as much as people might hope. Having a corrected economy could be
more important.
All the other details are also described, with reasons given. The whole
thing is a Nation ready to go, with all the usual fittings. There will
be houses with families like before, children go to schools, there will
be businesses, a public sector, courts of Justice, taxation and a public budget, local and National Governments, and so on and so on, much is
really exactly the same as it is now. There are some differences, but it
is almost like a black and white picture is changed to a picture with
color, and a few monsters in the background brushed out.
This is how I think things happened with World War 2, a story so much
more dark and evil than people seem to want to know because of what it
means for our current State and ruling class. This is what I propose we
learn from these events, which more or less started around 1850 with the
labor unrest.
In summary: World War 2 was (probably) fought as a war against the labor
class in the whole world, with also a goal of Empire for the various
cliques. The strategy took a new turn but continued after the war. The
labor unrest of 1917 was eventually defeated, and later smothered in
wealth in the west. This wealth is now taken away step by step, as the
new Empire has entrenched itself and feels powerful enough to do it.
Insane money printing has already started in the year 2008. We are
therefore faced with a new round of wars, World War, economic
instability, crisis and even collapse leading to labor unrest and the
need for action to remedy the situation. Not much has still been learned
by the people in general, but I do propose something here right now and
more or less since 2007. It is hard to get through to a now decadent
people, but we will see what happens when the chains of poverty weigh
ever more and the wars spread. The chances for improvement are for the
taking, but it won't be easy and require lots of hard work, and also to
work on personal character (to be nice to people, to listen carefully,
and generally to care).
--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan.
http://market.socialism.nl
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