https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.9.6-7

The great Prophet Isaiah wrote:

(...)

In token of abundant authority And of peace without limit Upon David’s
throne and kingdom, That it may be firmly established In justice and
in equity Now and evermore. The zeal of GOD of Hosts Shall bring this
to pass.
The Sovereign Let loose a word against Jacob And it fell upon Israel.
But all the people noted — Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—
In arrogance and haughtiness:
“Bricks have fallen— We’ll rebuild with dressed stone; Sycamores
have been felled— We’ll grow cedars instead!”
So GOD let the enemies of Rezin Triumph over it And stirred up its
foes—
Aram from the east And Philistia from the west— Who devoured Israel
With greedy mouths. Yet God’s anger has not turned back, And the
divine arm is outstretched still.
For this people has not turned back To the One who struck it; They have
not sought GOD of Hosts.

So GOD will cut off from Israel Head and tail, Palm branch and reed,
In a single day.

Elders and magnates — Such are the heads; Prophets who give false
instruction, Such are the tails

That people’s leaders have been misleaders, So those who are led have
been confused.

That is why the Sovereign Will not spare their youths, Nor show compassion
To their orphans and widows; For all are ungodly and wicked, And every
mouth speaks impiety.

Already wickedness has blazed forth like a fire Devouring thorn and
thistle. It has kindled the thickets of the wood, Which have turned
into billowing smoke. Yet God’s anger has not turned back, And the
divine arm is outstretched still.

By the fury of GOD of Hosts, The earth was shaken. Next, the people
became like devouring fire: Not one of them spared the others.

They snatched on the right, but remained hungry, And consumed on the
left without being sated. Each devoured the flesh of its own kindred —

Manasseh Ephraim’s, and Ephraim Manasseh’s, And both of them against
Judah! Yet God’s anger has not turned back, And the divine arm is
outstretched still.

Ha! Those who write out evil writs And compose iniquitous documents,

To subvert the cause of the poor, To rob of their rights the needy
of My people; That widows may be their spoil, And fatherless children
their booty!

What will you do on the day of punishment, When the calamity comes
from afar? To whom will you flee for help, And how will you save your
carcasses

From collapsing under [fellow] prisoners, From falling beneath the slain?
Yet God’s anger has not turned back, And the divine arm is outstretched
still.

Ha! Assyria, rod of My anger, In whose hand, as a staff, is My fury!

I send him against an ungodly nation, I charge him against a people that
provokes Me, To take its spoil and to seize its booty And to make it a
thing trampled Like the mire of the streets.

But he has evil plans, His mind harbors evil designs; For he means to
destroy, To wipe out nations, not a few.

For he thinks, “After all, I have kings as my captains!

Was Calno any different from Carchemish? Or Hamath from Arpad?
Or Samaria from Damascus?

Since I was able to seize The insignificant kingdoms, Whose images
exceeded Jerusalem’s and Samaria’s,

Shall I not do to Jerusalem and her images What I did to Samaria and
her idols?”

But when all of my Sovereign’s purpose has been carried out on Mount
Zion and in Jerusalem, the majestic pride and overbearing arrogance of
the king of Assyria will be punished.

For he thought, “By the might of my hand have I wrought it, By my skill,
for I am clever: I have erased the borders of peoples; I have plundered
their treasures, And exiled their vast populations.

I was able to seize, like a nest, The wealth of peoples; As one gathers
abandoned eggs, So I gathered all the earth: Nothing so much as flapped
a wing Or opened a mouth to peep.”

Does an ax boast over one who hews with it, Or a saw magnify itself
above one who wields it? As though the rod raised one who lifts it,
As though the staff lifted the person!

Assuredly,
The Sovereign GOD of Hosts will send A wasting away in its fatness;
And under its body shall burn A burning like that of fire, Destroying
frame and flesh. It shall be like an invalid who pines away.
וְ
The Light of Israel will be fire And its Holy One flame. It will burn
and consume its thorns And its thistles in a single day,

And the mass of its scrub and its farmland.

What trees remain of its scrub Shall be so few that a child may record
them.

And in that day, The remnant of Israel And the escaped of the House of
Jacob Shall lean no more upon him that beats it, But shall lean sincerely
On GOD, the Holy One of Israel.

Only a remnant shall return, Only a remnant of Jacob, To Mighty God.

Even if your people, O Israel, Should be as the sands of the sea, Only
a remnant of it shall return. Destruction is decreed; Retribution comes
like a flood!

For my Sovereign GOD of Hosts is carrying out A decree of destruction
upon all the land.

Assuredly, thus said my Sovereign GOD of Hosts: “O My people that
dwells in Zion, have no fear of Assyria, who beats you with a rod and
wields his staff over you as did the Egyptians.

For very soon My wrath will have spent itself, and My anger that was
bent on wasting them.”

GOD of Hosts will brandish a scourge over Assyria as when Midian was
beaten at the Rock of Oreb, and will wield a staff [over him] as was
done to the Egyptians by the sea.

And in that day, His burden shall drop from your back, And his yoke from
your neck; The yoke shall be destroyed because of fatness.

He advanced upon Aiath, He proceeded to Migron, At Michmas he deposited
his baggage.

They made the crossing; “Geba is to be our night quarters!” Ramah
was alarmed; Gibeah of Saul took to flight.

“Give a shrill cry, O Bath-gallim! Hearken, Laishah! Take up the
cry, Anathoth!”

Madmenah ran away; The dwellers of Gebim sought refuge.

This same day at Nob He shall stand and wave his hand. O mount of
Fair Zion! O hill of Jerusalem!

Lo! The Sovereign GOD of Hosts Will hew off the tree-crowns with an ax:
The tall ones shall be felled, The lofty ones cut down:

The thickets of the forest shall be hacked away with iron, And the
Lebanon trees shall fall in their majesty.

But a shoot shall grow out of the stump of Jesse, A twig shall sprout
from his stock.

The spirit of GOD shall alight upon him: A spirit of wisdom and insight,
A spirit of counsel and valor, A spirit of devotion and reverence
for GOD.

He shall sense the truth by his reverence for GOD: He shall not judge
by what his eyes behold, Nor decide by what his ears perceive.

Thus he shall judge the poor with equity And decide with justice for
the lowly of the land. He shall strike down a land with the rod of his
mouth And slay the wicked with the breath of his lips.

Justice shall be the girdle of his loins, And faithfulness the girdle
of his waist.

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard lie down with the kid;
The calf, the beast of prey, and the fatling together, With a little
boy to herd them.

The cow and the bear shall graze, Their young shall lie down together;
And the lion, like the ox, shall eat straw.

A babe shall play Over a viper’s hole, And an infant pass its hand
Over an adder’s den.

In all of My sacred mount Nothing evil or vile shall be done; For the
land shall be filled with devotion to GOD As water covers the sea.

In that day, The stock of Jesse that has remained standing Shall become
a standard to peoples— Nations shall seek his counsel And his abode
shall be honored.

In that day, my Sovereign will apply a divine hand again to redeeming
the other part of this people from Assyria—as also from Egypt, Pathros,
Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and the coastlands.

[God] will hold up a signal to the nations And assemble the banished
of Israel, And gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of
the earth.

Then Ephraim’s envy shall cease And Judah’s harassment shall end;
Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not harass Ephraim.

(...)

End quote.

This ends with what seems to be the future Redemption of Israel, and
thus what comes before it seems to refer to the events that come before
it (that makes sense, doesn't it? ;-).

So GOD will cut off from Israel Head and tail, Palm branch and reed,
In a single day.
Elders and magnates — Such are the heads; Prophets who give false
instruction, Such are the tails
That people’s leaders have been misleaders, So those who are led have
been confused.

(End quote.)

It seems that what is translated as "Head and tail", Elders and
Magnates, and false prophets, that this includes ... the Rabbis of
Israel. Are they not the leaders of the people, are they not their
elders and magnates ? Isn't their leader called Hillel the Elder, is he
not one of your Elders ? Aren't they prophets, trying to predict the
future for you ?

They have misled Israel, and caused the exile. I tried to rebuke them,
and they played deaf.

To subvert the cause of the poor, To rob of their rights the needy
of My people; That widows may be their spoil, And fatherless children

(...)

Thus he shall judge the poor with equity And decide with justice for
the lowly of the land. He shall strike down a land with the rod of his

(End quote.)

They broke the 7th year debt nullification, which is there for the poor.
For this they invented the "prosbul". They pretend that a court decision
in a case of speaking Justice is not nullified in the 7th year, and
therefdore a loan can be a court decision ! As if the court is making
any loans, or that if it did, it would be allowed to ask the money back
after the 7th year, even though the law is the opposite. They serve the
rich, the Rabbis do, they do not serve the Torah. Israel in general
pretends not to notice. Are these the children of the brave Abraham, and
the followers of their brave teacher Moshe ? After this they added more
money games and frauds, one is called the "heter iska", invented by
Rambam - Maimonides. Another one of their "Sages" whom they put above
the Torah and its Prophets, another deceiver it seems.

They broke the Shabbos, by making the most absurd day counting system.
No Nation I know about has gone this crazy. A child knows what the next
day is: one night sleep. By this device of theirs, which they claim is
based on Bereshieth in a way I could never figure out how that makes any
sense, it is "the next day" suddenly when the sun goes down. "I will see
you tomorrow!" can mean in their world to see you in 5 minutes, just
after sundown if the sun is already going down. Who talks like this ?
who thinks like this. By this they have legislated that it is allowed to
work on Shabbos, on the evening of that day. I strongly suggest to never
do that, do not listen to them.

Why are the Rabbis not demanding the land in Israel is distributed and
the law of Jubilee kept on it, now under supposed Sovereignty of Israel ?
Why do they not ask their own land to be restored to them, as is their
right and possession, so that they may give the right example ? I'm sure
they have "their reasons". Moshe Rabbeinu did not take the easy way out
when he saw his people abused. I see no result on the issue of land, the
matter is not even raised it seems. Do they even care ? I guess not. The
entire economy hangs on especially this matter. The economy is not a small thing for a Nation.

Idolatry, can you believe it ? The Rabbis are idolators, who worship the
Sun. I hope it isn't true for most of them, and perhaps it is not, but
why is this so-called Temple Institute allowed to make a Sun idol, and
plan to put it on a 3rd Temple, on the inner building its gate ?
Everything about this device is wrong. It is an open rebellion against
the God who told you: do not bow down to the Sun. They made it to honor
a foreign Queen. They traded their God away, the Creator of everything,
for some food. Wheren't they supposed to thank their God for sending
them this woman ?

They also invented that "moshiach" of the final redemption, was going to
be late. That he was going to be lazy, even though it says that he would
be "hurried" in its time. By putting the blame on him rather than on the
people of Israel who tarry since forever with the Torah, they are
putting the blame where it doesn't belong. "I believe ... even though he
may tarry ..." Who invented that, and why ? Did you think of the effect ?

Israel is also guilty of quickly reading through the punishment section
of the Torah, so I have heard, even though this is just as important, especially during the exile. Do you want more blood in the streets
before you learn ? Maybe hearing the horrors that may occur will be
enough for some, so let that be and let them hear. You could save a few
people, who knows.

So, now speaking of what may happen, the punishments ...

And in that day, The remnant of Israel And the escaped of the House of
Jacob Shall lean no more upon him that beats it, But shall lean sincerely
On GOD, the Holy One of Israel.
Only a remnant shall return, Only a remnant of Jacob, To Mighty God.
Even if your people, O Israel, Should be as the sands of the sea, Only
a remnant of it shall return. Destruction is decreed; Retribution comes
like a flood!

The Nazi holocaust killed about ¹/₃ of the Jewish total population, it
left around ²/₃ (66%) alive. Two thirds is not a remnant. A speculative computation on the severety of the next round of punishment, which is
going to be 7 times worse (which all Jewish people would know of course,
if they carefuly and loudly read through the punishment section in the
Torah): take 7 times one third out of a total, and you end up with about
1 in 20 surviving. In math you write this like so: (²/₃)⁷, which equals ²/₃ × ²/₃ × ²/₃ × ²/₃ × ²/₃ × ²/₃ × ²/₃, this fraction survives.

About 5% surviving, which works out to closely to 600 000, is reasonably
"a remnant". If you have 100 people in a boat and it sinks, 5 survive
it, you can say "a few survived". This is what you are facing, for
breaking with the Torah.

Your Rabbis are blocking the Redemption. Isaiah already said they where
a problem. They will loose their power it seems, and it may come true
this way that there will be no more teachers in Israel, but HKB'H will
teach His people Himself.

*

It is interesting to see how it says "as a flood" you will be punished,
when at the same time dani18.com who seems to base itself on the Zohar
also, says that there will literally be an Asteroid strike in the not
too distant future, which would cause a massive amount of death is USA
and Europe. In USA this would kill many Jewish people, who can not be
part of the Redemption.

Although you might not care, but I find it interesting that in Nordic
Mythology it says that at the end of this world, the great sea snake
will come unto the land. Everyone dies. After this there is nothing
anymore. In some version, two persons might survive it all, just two.
In the native indians of North America, we see similar predictions.
Everything is the same.

*

I think that for most people, this is merely fantasy. They don't take it serious. Most people look maybe ahead a few weeks, and we seen that in
the ignorance of the Governments of the Nations. Not that they do
everything wrong, but things are not going as they should have. They
have not taken enough care of their people, have not thought about the
future seriously enough. Most people are like children, more or less
living in a magical reality. If you confront them with reality, with the
mess they are creating for the future, they think reality is a magical
fantasy and it won't happen, or they have some other satisfying reason
for themselves not to care. Whatever gets them through the day without
too much trouble. It is the mindlessness of humanity, which is one of
its worst problems.

It is quite sad when you think about it, that so many people are going
to die, just because they don't want to be good enough people who can
live in peace with each other, and help each other. It isn't even that
hard to do. They are too selfish, I guess, and therefore cannot live in
peace and help each other.

Israel sometimes seems to think she has a choice in the matter. Up to a
point, she does have a choice. In the end, what must happen will happen.
What has been decided, will happen. You will not be able to change a
thing about the overall outcome. What you can influence, is where *you*
end up in the whole thing. Outside, or inside.

Are you brave like Abraham and Moshe Rabbeinu, standing for Justice and
the truth against *everyone* including your own family, your entire
people and the masters of your people if any ? Would you risk a death
sentence from the Government, if you knew you had to act to protect
someone, like Moshe Rabbeinu did ? Would you attack the idols of your
people, because your God is against them and you know that to be right ?

You Rabbis it looks like, will not help you. They are guilty of creating
the exile with their Lamp of Helena idol and their money games which
break the Torah. Was the land still distributed and the Jubilee honored
at the end of the 2nd Temple ? It seems they want to learn nothing. It
is still the same, after thousands of years. They seem to lack the
courage to stand alone for the truth, and go against their own. Is there
no money in it ? Is it risky ? This mess would continue forever it
seems, if heaven would not intervene and force it to a stop.

There is no hope with people, as the Prophets already say. Just look:
you can tell the truth all you want, it doesn't make an impact on them.
They don't care (which incidentally is an Italian Fascist slogan).

Power, position in the heap, following the herd, safety by worshipping
the Establishment, going along, being mindless, stupidity as a survival strategy ... such seems to be the way of the many. They want justice, if
there is money in it for them, and the peace of being left alone if
someone needs their help. Hopefully and seemingly it is not this bad for
many, it sometimes seems this is the way of the average person on Earth.
Some are a bit better, others are much worse. It isn't going anywhere
good.

P.S. Laughable if you see the ruling class creating World War 3. China now supposedly on the side with the Arabs against Israel, over something as
tiny as Gaza. Like these criminals care for a bunch of Palestinians. Get
real please. USA propaganda (google) claims that "China and Russia"
are ganging up against the USA. What an laughable joke. They do exactly
what their Vassal master the USA wants, to get a war out of it. People, mindless as usual, lap it up like a thirsty dog laps up water.

I was wondering where all this stupidity in humanity comes from, and
perhaps one reason is: everything is automatic and instinctual, based on
the distant past. It makes no sense for anyone to fight for Kiev or
Moscow. Who cares what criminals will exploit them ? These two Nations
are among the most corrupt in Europe. What does any regular person
benefit from this nonsense: nothing, but misery and death. That is what
this American created war is causing.

Why do they fight then ? I wondered that the reason is: back in the
distant past, tens of thousands and millions of years ago, the fighting
was about territory close by, and could be quite important for all their
daily lives. Who controlled the well ? Who could hunt in those woods,
etc. Many animals maintain territories against their own species. I
figure that this is part of it. They act out ancient behaviors, also of
group loyalty by being mindless, not to question the top dogs because
they could be killed by them. They don't seem to realize that this is a
"new world", since farming started. Everything changed with that. Now we
seem to be at a climal of this development, with nuclear bombs pointing everywhere and toys in space, etc.

The ways of the animal are beyond obsolete. They are extremely dangerous
for survival. Something has to urgently change. The adaptation of humans
to this new situation is going far too slow, unacceptably slow. People
think they can do whatever they want. Sure, go ahead, so long as you
accept that your death and extinction will be part of the potential consequences. It can always get even worse, didn't you know ?

They read the truth, and it doesn't do anything to them. It is amazing.
Who are these creatures, are they alive at all ? I don't even mean on
big things, but what about something as obvious as a technicality of
law: the prosbul. A loophole ?! GTFO (Sorry about that, but seriously
now; utterly unacceptable and you know it.)

Your deaths will be on your own heads. You think someone will magically
save you from it ? That is right now. You can save yourself by stopping
your absurd ignorance. If you don't, the consequences will have to be.
If you do, at least you bettered yourself and improved your chances.

Funny how they will mostly roll the dice like this: "I will go with the
herd, tomorrow will be the same as yesterday, I will play it safe, I
don't care, I'm a good person so long as I don't commit grievous crimes
which are currently outlawed and have a few friends at least, it's not
up to me, it will last our time, when the day comes I will see what to
do then, I would support something good if the rest also does the same
and yaddayaddayadda whatever to remain mindless and directionless."

You have been warned against this behavior and choice, I can't do
anything else for you. I guess it took courage to leave Egypt, and now
it takes courage to leave Edom (the western world), and also the
misleading teachers and leaders of currently existing Israel and
Rabbinical Judaism with all its schisms; or at least to correct it on
some of it's blatant failures. I wouldn't want to do even away with much
of it, because it seems to be quite an interesting thing, but it has to
stop lying about some obvious issues.

Honor the 7th year debt cancellation.
Stop messing with the Shabbos ? Never saw a believable argument on this
yet.
Distribute the land to all, keep it so.
Stop the heter iska. If it was needed, Moshe Rabbeinu would have added
it. It is a fraud. You have excess money ? Excellent, go make an easy
loan to the poor for example. Problem solved. A business needs money ?
They can save it up. Other businesses also need room in the market.
Don't blame moshiach for tarrying, when you are the ones tarrying with
the Torah, and have broken it, causing the exile.

Whatever else I forgot ;-).

Unbelievable that it has to come to this. Literally every step of the
way it seems, the prophets of Israel get it right. I can also not change
that. I try to basically get you to save yoruselves, but you refuse, and
that means you will probably die soon at a rate of 19 out of 20. It is
sad, don't blame me for it.

There you go. Your own prophets told you that your Rabbis are wrong, and
even explicitly mention the issue of the poor. Did you think of that ?
You are following the people, to explain the Torah for you (even though
the Torah says you don't need that), and in this Tanach itself is says,
these people you follow, they are wrong and misleading. Funny, isn't it.
Am I misleading you ? Well you see, I lead exactly nothing ;-).

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-11-21, Jos Boersema <Josjoha@market.socialism.nl> wrote:

https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.9.6-7

The great Prophet Isaiah wrote:

(...)

Ha! Those who write out evil writs And compose iniquitous documents,

To subvert the cause of the poor, To rob of their rights the needy
of My people; That widows may be their spoil, And fatherless children
their booty!

Prosbul and heter iska, created by Hillel the Elder and Rambam /
Maimonides. They said "to make the world beautiful", that was their
reason, or the reason they gave.

Is it beautiful for you, when you are widowed and your children needs a
new sweater, if he and she go hungry to school on old and too small
shoes, that you hear the story of the wealthy family living near you
around the corner of the street (say) ...

"That wealthy man, this family which lives in the big house around the
corner, with the gate around their front yard, you know this house ?
You nod, yes of course you know that house. The story continues: he
struck a deal with the car repair shop not far from here. He is now the
partial owner, so that he can increase his wealth without lifting a
finger."

Does that sound beautiful to you ? When you are the Klal Yisroel, all of
you are Jewish and supposed to care for each other as one people under
the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu ? Oh I see, you don't care about that
anymore, because of these "beautiful documents" you have crafted ? The
Torah no longer counts ? Solidarity may not be assumed ? This woman has
her own life to blame for her trouble ? The children should learn from
their poverty to work harder when they grow up ? Do you believe this is
a "beautiful Nation" in the eyes of its Creator, the One who made all ?
Isn't that supposed to be your God, the One who made all ? Not one god
made this family, and another the other, so that they may be at war with
each other, or determine who is the richest and may rule the others for
their own benefit - but One Nation, helping each other. The rich helping
the poor with money, and the poor helping the rich with work, so that
the rich don't become too rich, and the poor don't become too poor.

Here is another fantasy story, and you can tell me if you think it is beautiful, or rather the opposite.

"That wealthy man, this family which lives in the big house around the
corner, with the gate around their front yard, you know this house ?
You nod, yes of course you know that house. The story continues: he
struck a deal with the court to give your neighbor a loan. He loaned
money your neighbors, who are poor like you as you know. The court put a
stamp on a document, saying that the loan was now a verdict of the
court. They say, the loan will have to be repaid, even when the 7th year
comes around and goes by, and the next year after that comes. The loan
has to be repaid, because it is not a loan like any other normal loan,
it is a Court Verdict now. Your poor neighbors, they now have to sell
their house, if that is even their house. They are already working in
the garden and the big house for free, to try to pay off the loan, but
they can't pay it off. Be careful, don't take any loans from this
wealthy family, it's a trap. Fortunately there are no other families
being targeted by the rich family right now, because he claimed that he
has no more money left over. I guess that most of it he stuck in the
bank, and the rest he invested with the car repair shop, so that he
could claim he had nothing left."

Is this "beautiful" to you ? The first iniquitous document is called a
heter iska, which translates as "good investment". The second document
is called a "prosbul".

If you don't believe me, that this is actually what the Jewish people
are doing ? The religious ones, the ones who have their mouths full
about their "Rebbes", who pray to Hashem all the time, who light candles
on the Shabbos, and so on and so on. They are doing it, these are their
self invented laws. If you don't believe me, I can understand that, but
you see: they are exiled for a reason. You can look up their false law
in their law book called the "Shulchan Aruch". It is typically a
beautiful book, and quite thick. You will find these laws there.

You will not find these laws in the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, and
certainly neither in the Prophets or the writings of King David. They
seem to be unanimously opposed to these money games.

*

You go on with it, as if you don't have a clue. You pretend not to
notice and not to hear the complaint. It is like someone made a doll,
dressed it out to look just right, and someone is pleading to this doll
not knowing that this is just a doll and not a human. He pleads and
pleads but there is no reaction. Finally he gets angry, walks out, comes
back and apologizes, starts pleading again, but no reaction. Mute, deaf, nothing. He gives up, thinking the silence must mean he missed something obvious, so obvious that he didn't deserve an answer. He goes home and
thinks, rethinks and rethinks, but only sees more arguments, more
reasons to talk to the thing he thinks is a person. He goes back and
puts forth all his new arguments. He makes up stories to illustrate his arguments, once, twice, twenty times. Tirelessly he works. No reaction.

This is how Israel reacts. They seem to think they have the right to
ignore a debate on the Torah. Does a criminal have the right to loot the
bank or rob someone in the street, just because he can do it ? Because
he has the power to do it, what he does is not fit for punishment ? The criminal is punished, once caught and guilt is proven. The repenting
criminal, which is rare but can exist, is typically punished less,
sometimes not at all if hes regret is believed and he makes up for his
crimes. Indeed, such a man can be praised and become great. The criminal
who to the bitter end wants to break the law, and even in prison keeps
on breaking the rules, as if he was deaf and didn't know or as if he
knew but didn't care, they get punished worse because in prison itself
he gains more punishments. Sometimes, these people never get out of
prison at all.

You know the crime, Israel. You pretend not to notice, and you go on
with it, as if it is your right. How do you expect to get punished by
the one who can, which is your God ? You seem to think you can get away
with it, and that you will soon be Redeemed, everyone dancing full of
joy. You think the wealthy man and the poor people who where not helped
by the wealthy man in the above story, you think they will dance hand in
hand in the streets because Israel is redeemed and wants to keep the
Torah again ?

I see one way that can happen: the wealthy man gets regrets from his
mistakes, and he makes up for it. The other possibility is, the Rabbis
regret their mistakes, and they force the wealthy man to obay the law or
leave the land. Either he leaves and after the Redemption he is not
there to spoil the party, or he obays and by his actions makes the poor
happy with him, because that is what the Torah says is beautiful. It all depends on returning to the Torah, to your law. I don't see how your
fantasy reality can become true, that you can continue to hurt the poor
and engage in your "iniquitous documents", but still expect this all to
end well in unity and lasting peace. I think, this cannot happen.

What can happen, is catastrophe and death. You saw a little bit of that
already in Israel, but that is nothing compared to a real war. A real
full out war means for example: Tel Aviv has been ended like Soddom and Gemorrah have been ended. Even if it ends like Dresden, or the old
cities completely destroyed and murdered out in the ancient times with
nothing more than hand carried weapons, it still means almost everyone
is dead and the city does not exist anymore. That's just one city, many
more may fall like this, or even the entire land. This is certainly
something that can happen. Peace and Justice forever, while you engage
in "iniquitous documents" to rob the poor, to break the unity, to break
the friendship between all the people, and still be a happy people, it
seems to be to be impossible. One excludes the other, like the murder of
a child can go together with the happiness of the mother, if we assume a
normal mother and not some terrible creature of evil. One excludes the
other, like having a nice evening at home with the family does not go
together with your house burning down at the same time.

Why are you so scared for the truth. It often feels to me like you think
"and who do you think you are ?!". This is exactly your problem, your
idolatry. The issue is an issue of law. When I want to compute the long
edge of a triangle with one straight angle, do I care if Pythagoras was
a nice guy, or do I care to remember: a² = b² + c² ➡ a = √(b²+c²). Do I
need to build a statue of Pythagoras first and make offerings before it,
and then I can compute the answer ? I don't care at all about the person
who is called Pythagoras, I just use the formala and that's it. I go for
my calculator, and that's it. If someone told me a² = b³ + c² is the
correct formula, am I going to debate if this guy has given enough
charity last year, and how that stacks up to how nice Phytagoras has
been to his wife, if any ? No, I am not going to talk about the idols
involved, the personalities involved. I don't care if Pythagoras thought
he was god on Earth, or if he thought of himself as a worm, one of the
worst, and the same for the person coming along with the alternative
formula. I don't care about their personalities, I care about getting
the formula right by looking into the topic itself. I might draw a large triangle, and measure all the sides, so that we have an example where
all variables are known. While it is true that I might ask a
mathematician to give me the right answer, which is especially useful if
it gets very complicated, in the end it is up to me to find the right
answer, and make sure it is right.

Is the prosbul or the heter iska, is the 7th year loan nullification and
the prohibition on rent seeking from within the Nation it's people, is
this complicated ? Is this such a difficult matter that only the few can understand it ? Do you need to go "over the sea" or "into heaven" to
find the answer ? Do you travel to Greece and find perhaps the crack in
the rocks where the Oracle of Delphi was located, so that you may have a
vision ? No, and even the Torah itself says: the Torah is not that
difficult, you can do it, and you don't even need help to understand the
law.

Then there is the issue of Judges. Cases need to be heard by Judges.
Sometimes cases can be difficult, for example if many circumstances and
laws interfere with each other, and so on. The evidence may be
uncertain, or there can be boundary issues at play. What is considered
house work on the Shabbos ? Can you walk at all ? Yes. Can you make a
long trip and deviler a parcel ? Probably not. Where is the limit ?

This is nothing of the sort. This is about the law itself: will the loan
be nullified in the 7th year for the poor, for the one who can not
reasonably repay the loan shortly before the nullification, yes or no.
Is rent seeking on loans allowed, or not. The prosbul here is the
clearest one, and also the oldest one. It is absolutely unacceptable
compared to what the Torah law says. The loans are nullified. Pretending
a loan is a court verdict, is absurd, shameful, and also breaks the law.
If someone says that the prosbul is fine, then they are opposing the
Torah. It is that simple and obvious.

The Rabbis are opposing the Torah, already since Hillel the Elder,
*before* the current exile began. Fittingly, the establishment at the
end of the 2nd Temple era also put a Sun disk idol on the 2nd Temple
inner building it's gate (!), and so it is completely clear that this
group is corrupt and opposes the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu and their God.
The modern Rabbis have inherited all this corruption, and they go on
with it, as if they are deaf and blind like a doll.

The last guess is going to have to be: the Rabbis are obstinate, because
of arrogance. They think they may have the right to all kinds of honors,
to be treated with the utmost respect. Therefore they can make up this
knot in their head: if someone gives us a rebuke on the Torah, we can
only hear it if it is done with the UTMOST of respect to us, so that our feelings don't get hurt. If we don't see an almost worshipful attitude
towards ourselves when we hear that we may have made a mistake, then we
have the right to dismiss the complaint, because you should always be
friendly to everyone. Is this a rightful demand and complaint the Rabbis
may have, if someone came to them and in no uncertain terms and in harsh
words said how wrong they where ? Should complaints always be made with
the utmost care, so as not to offend more than necessary ?

While I guess that it is better to start out as friendly as possible, it
is not absolutely necessary to the matter at hand if the complaint was
done in a friendly manner, or in a more neutral manner, or in an angry
or even dismissive manner. The first element of interest is: what is the
Torah. Is it A, B or C. If there is a mistake, then this is so important
to get corrected, that everything else becomes point 2. You could then
always make a second case on how the matter was brought, and that it
should have been more friendly. That would then be a second case, but it
cannot detract from something as important as: what should the law be.
Too much depends on it. The shoes of the children of the widow depend on
it, and if that takes taking some hurt because you where wrong and now
have to admit it, you take that hurt like a man.

More endless talk to the rebellious Nation of Israel, as if talking to a
doll. It seems Isaiah says, these "dolls" will burn, the rebels will
disappear. It looks like: only God the Creator can still fix this mess,
but I warn you: don't wait for that, don't wait for anything, we have to
be good people and you cannot wait with that. Fine then, sleep over it
for one night, and then make it right. Stop with your prosbul and stop
with your heter iska, and regret your Lamp of Helena Sundisk idol,
destroy it in Yerushalayim, destroy it.

*

Speaking of being nice. Wheren't you supposed to be welcoming to your
so-called "moshiach" ? If the way you treat me and my corrections to
your corrupt establishment, if this is any guide to what you will do to
your "moshiach", then a bucket with ice in the face would be better.
But, it's fine, don't worry about it; I understand you are afraid and
worried as usual, and hard necked to the bone, indoctrinated also which
is notoriously hard to break.

You should make a loan to a poor person, and make certain they
understand full well they are not even allowed to pay it back after the
next 7th year, and there will also certainly be no interest on it. Also,
forget about inflation correction. Too many games with money have been
played, you cannot afford any more greed. I suppose, even if you are
poor, you can still miss a tiny bit of money like the value of one
bread, unless you truly can't and then don't. You would then establish
the principle again: the loan is cancelled in the 7th year. If the loan
is attempted to be repaid by the poor person, if they come with you with
the money, you have to reject it and tell them: find someone else who
needs this money. If they want to be your friend however, I think that
is exactly what it is all about. Everyone should be friends.

Once good things have happened, then let the good times roll (so to say),
and don't overthink everything too much after that point, that will just
mess with your mind. If however it doesn't sit right with you after,
if the poor person gives you something and you feel it is still to repay
the loan, then make sure you equalize that again. I think this is a bit
of a known problem with Israel, but it is primarely up to the person
receiving the loan, to also respect the Torah and REFUSE to pay back
the loan. They know what they are thinking, and are the first ones who
need to refuse to break the law by paying it back. Paying back the loan
after the 7th year is a crime, a misdeed. Also, you see that this is the opposite rule as the Rabbis are pushing, who pretend it is a good thing.
No it is not a good thing, because it spreads the practice that the loan
in the 7th year may not actually be cancelled still.

You have to get rid of your treasonous Rabbis, who serve the rich.
Stop listening to these liars, please.

Once a loan is paid back by the poor, even if he didn't have to but he
chose to, he thinks to himself that he neutralized the gift again. The situation became neutral. There is no reason to be thankful anymore.
He repaid his debt. Therefore he has no reason to be thankful for the
Torah, thankful to his brother or sister who gave him the law, he has
another reason less to fight for Israel if fighting is necessary, and he
has no reason to thank his God, the Creator of everything, to provide
these laws for Israel to the poor, and perhaps worst of all: he might
hold it against a poor person if he gave a loan to them, for not paying
them back after the 7th year, "because that is what he did". It creates
hatred between people. The Rabbis are creating hatred. It is just not
allowed, why is it so difficult for you to read a few words of law, when
I can even read them in Engsish (and no, there is no mistranslation at
work here, don't worry about that).

Un-be-lievable ... like saw dust in the brain, like a doll. It upsets
you I don't worship the Rabbis, I'm not in awe of their great libraries
and cool looking Yeshiva's ? I'm not in awe of "the great Sages", whose
words they teach ? Think of it this way: compare my words here, to the
raping and plundering of the Nazi hordes against your houses, shops and
work places, the hell these people have created. If my words hurt you,
I'm sorry about that, but if they can get you back to the truth so you
can avoid hell like that, I think it's a good deal to take, don't you
think ? "Don't you think" - I guess those are the key words.

"But the majority of Sages" ... Who told you that ?! Who told you that.
Where is it in the Torah, the Pentateuch. It's not even in there. You
are trying to confuse a ruling on a case, versus what is the law. What
the law is, is crystal clear. The loan is nullified, end of story.
What does that mean is some kind of complicated case, where some boy
took a loan but he might not be Jewish, but maybe he is ? This is a
complicated case, and you could bring all the Judges in the country
together to rule on it. That's totally fine with me, and if they rule by majority, then that is also fine by me. This sets a precedent, and this precedent could be tested by later cases. You should notice however,
that it is a Precedent and may give guidance on future rulings, but it
is not itself the immutable law of the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu. It is
possible that a future ruling of all the Judges in the country, would
find differently. I would also be fine with that, perhaps understanding progressed, perhaps the case was just a little bit different, who knows. However *what is the law*, that is a different matter. Under the rules
of the Torah: Israel may not change it, and no condition under which it
might change has been met, and cannot be met. Even under the conditions
of the final Redemption, it is still unclear if anything can change, but
it is clear that this final Redemption has not happened yet, and so the
law is the law.

The loan is cancelled in the 7th year.

I'm fine with an attempt to get the loan repaid within reason *before*
the 7th year, because after all someone might not be poor anymore. They
might have found a pot of gold, good employ, luck in harvest, luck in
the market, got an inheritance, who knows. The repayment is within
reason, that means also it is in the Torah: don't be a harsh creditor,
don't take the clothes of the back of your people. When the 7th year
comes: the loan has evaporated. This also means you cannot have the poor
put to work for you for less or for free, after the 7th year, to pay
back that loan.

Lol, I guess this topic was again beaten into an absolute pulp for the
day. Have a nice day then, and a guten Shabbos.

P.S.

How amazing, isn't it, that the few sins mentioned by Isaiah, are
specifically: iniquitous documents to rob the poor, and a Sun disk idol
being worshipped. Precisely some of the seemingly major betrayels of the
modern Rabbis against the Torah and their God. Prosbul, heter iska, and
the Lamp of Helena. Then, the exile started. They have not repented from
any of it since (!). About 2 thousand years or rebellion, and pretending
not to notice ! Astonishing. You would think that during all these
hardships, and all this reading and study, someone would have noticed it eventually. No, not at all, happily they go on with their treason as
if nothing is amiss.

You know: I'm merely a person. I sit here and write behind a keyboard.
I have a broadly positive attitude toward a people who keep the Torah
alive in the world, or at least in written form. Who at least got things
right for once in their history, unlike most / all of the goyim. You
don't have to be afraid of me. I'm nothing. Two of you would put me in
the ground no problem (although you know, Dutch people are taller than
most and so your people seem like a bit small, but that doesn't mean
anything.) It isn't me you need to be afraid off, me who can't do
anything much, and I'm not against you either. I'm not here to foment
any sort of rage or Pogroms against you. That little strength what I
have, I wouldn't use it against you. I use it to warn you and try to
correct you, and of course I'm not in favor of people who hurt Israel
even if they are Jewish, but that's about it. What you should be afraid
off, is your God, when your God says: "It's about time to deal with this rebellious bunch, one way or the other, they will be good and they will
be happy." That is when your people could start dying by the millions.
If you are good, you don't even have to be afraid of that I suppose, but
I leave that up to you.

Seriously, I don't know what more I can do for you and your current
state. It should be enough to write words. The Torah is also words, and
these are electronic, they go fast. A ruling of a court is also
something in words, often written down. It is all plenty clear enough,
and more than enough Jewish people know English. Besides this, I'm sure
there are plenty of people who already complained to you about these
laws such as the prosbul. This is even written somewhere, that you have
been warned in no uncertain terms already, against this greed and
disobedience to your law.

It doesn't matter, it's just a detail ? Is this what the widowed mother
thinks, seeing her children go hungry to school on too small shoes ?
Oh, I didn't think so either.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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