After all that was written to this group by undersigned about topics
such as economics, the prosbul, failure to distribute the land and even
the breaking of the Shabbos, and all other efforts I tried to do also, everything typically is being met with total silence (the most potent
weapon, as a debate they will loose *immediately* (the Temple Institute
tried to debate me once, and it was such a catastrophe for them that
they deleted the whole debate quickly because they looked like fools and
also childish in my opinion, so very different from the image they try
to put out of themselves)).

The question then becomes: why exactly is humanity such a failure.
Personally I was thinking in this direction on this question: you have
to have a minimum of both intelligence and a social attitude, but one
can compensate for the other, or at least up to a point.

If you are still clean in your mind, less ruined by the world it's
failed culture, greed, the fight to survive, your brain and heart are
still more or less innocent. "Each must have an equal part of the land"
is probably something a child will understand and agree to quite easily, because it is obviously fair. Each a similar piece of the pie, the
presents of all the children are more or less of similar value, all
children want their share of the attention of their parents and will be
hurt badly if one child gets all the love. Each an equal part of the
land is natural. It is the adults who confuse themselves, likely in two
ways: confusion and greed, or in a worse form by stupidity and evil.

If you are very smart (intelligence), and very good hearted also, and
you understand a little about human misbehavior already (which goes to intelligence), you will understand why markets in land in perpetuity
will fail because people with more land than others will constantly have
the ability to get even more, while those who are poor will end up strengthening those with too much already as being their servants with
nowhere else to go. If you are good hearted, you will understand that
the poor need help, and therefore everyone needs their land equally, and
it must be kept so forever (for instance by the Jubilee on land, but
there are other methods which other Nations have been using and
sometimes are still using).

If you are very smart but not too good hearted but also not too bad, you
could possibly compensate with your intelligence, because while you
might not really care too much for the poor and landless serfs who get
abused by an increasingly sick and wicked ownership class, you might nevertheless see that you might also get hurt in the end by such a
system. You will be facing a choice eventually, as such a society tears
itself apart into a psychopathic Oligarchy of ruthless criminals on top,
or become part of the opressed masses. You have a choice between
becoming evil, or becoming oppressed.

If however you are just a little less smart but still reasonably smart,
all this might completely escape you and you just focus on your daily life. This is what most people do. Their combination of intelligence plus
morality is too low to remain functional as a human being after the age
where humans learned to settle the land and grow food themselves.

If you are very smart but your morality is inverted so that you are a
criminal, you will obviously favor a system like Capitalism over a
system of equal land free for all by inalienable individual right,
because you will want to become part of the ruling Oligarchy, or better
even to become the ruling Tyrant.

If you have a really big heart and care for everyone lots and lots, but
you are not smart, you cannot see much or at all into the future, you
don't understand how things work, you might also fail to understand how
to solve this problem, and then you are stuck with doing little more
than charity and complaining about the evil world. You would complain
about the greed of the bosses, etc.

If you have a big heart and you are a bit smarter, you might realize it
is unfair how the bosses own everything, and especially after a few
generations of bosses have left their greedy Empires to their children
or sold it off to someone to exploit, you might complain about this
heavily skewed ownership situation as the cause of much of the
suffering. You might not be able to solve the problem however, until you
get a bit smarter again, or spend a lot of time on the topic.

All of this is pretty obvious I suppose, but there is also a third
aspect: the will. You can know something needs to change for society to function for everyone and be stable (intellect, but a criminal can also
know this), and you can just have the feeling that you want it to change
for the better, but you can still get stuck behind not actually doing
anything about it. For example you might have fear, or the circumstances
are making it exceedingly difficult. To actually do something, that
would be a third element.

If you have a strong will so that you just get on with whatever you
believe in, you might try all sorts of things. The less bright
(intelligence) you are, the more random and less structured your
attempts might be, but you would potentially learn something from your
failures and get closer to the truth that way. This is similar to doing thinking work, which also takes time. You could say that this is just
being alive, and getting better in many ways (hopefully, typically it is
slow).

*

For example the failure of the prosbul and of not keeping the Jubilee in Israel, which it seems they will never undo, is potentially a failure of character on all, one or two of these aspects. (I wonder though if these aspects don't even really exist as separate issues, but that they appear separate because we communicate in words, and words create little boxes
around parts of reality, whether or not they are separate or not).

You can be dumb and pretend the prosbul is alligned with the Torah. This
is absolutely preposterous, but for someone who is exceedingly brainless
it can be a thought they hold in their minds and they believe it. Being
so dumb, you can actually engage in the prosbul, while thinking you are
being a good person (!), being loyal to the Torah and what your Rabbi
told you.

You can also be heartless and just don't care about any sort of social
good which the Torah is perhaps trying to establish. You don't even see
that the Torah is there for the benefit of all and especially those who
need help. Happy healthy people don't need help, but hurting people do.
However being heartless, you don't see that, and so you may understand
that the prosbul is a fraud and that it hurts people, that it makes the
greedy rich more rich and greedy and immoral, but you lack the sense
that this is even bad. You may just think more like: the rich are the
winners, they rule on top, and therefore it is their right to change the
law to their liking. This is close to a criminal morality by the way.

Then you could also just be someone without much of a will. You just
follow the herd. Others engage in the prosbul, and even though you worry
that some poor soul is forced to repay when they are already suffering
extreme poverty, and even though you have a regular intelligence which
is more than enough to know the prosbul is a total fraud and deeply
offensive, reprehensible and seriously just disgusting, dishonest and
........ you know and feel all that, but you still don't act. You want
to fit in, you ignore your own feelings and what you know is right. Hey,
you made a loan to the poor person and now you will ask for it back
after the 7th year, doesn't that make you fit in with your friends at
the Yeshiva just fine ! You got a story to tell now. You might not press
too hard on the poor soul who is the victim of this abuse, and if you
have a heart maybe you will just let it go anyway, but you aren't there
to stand up for the truth either - you are no Abraham, you are no Moshe Rabbeinu. You just fester in the herd, "going along to get along".

*

This is how humanity has failed. I heard a few things about how land for
all failed in the Netherlands, way back when there where still people
capable of a reasoned debate on serious and fundamental issues I guess.
Like someone commented: "the time of the big story is over"; but I
digress sorry. This was in the time the Labor Unions where rising in
power, probably somewhere between 1900 and 1940. There where initiatives
here also, to give people cheap land and a cow. What I have heard saying
is that doing this work from the labor union perspective was: like
herding cats.

I can imagine it like so, that the people who had only a little land,
obviously wanted more, but those who had more would be outraged at the
idea that they would have to give up some of their land, and they would
start to angrily scream and rage. The big land owners are of course
nowhere to be seen in all this, they don't come to labor union meetings,
but they would have an interest in destroying any sort of fairness
doctrine with the careful application of their wealth. They could do the
usual and pay organized crime to beat someone up, or go sophisticated
and get the newspaper to write the wrong stories, etc. In the end, they
where not "man enough" to come together and do what a child could do:
make sure everyone has a fair share.

There was no doubt a lack of will, simply the will to see such a project through. It isn't enough for a few people to have plenty of will. You
need a broader base than just a few people for such a massive culture
changing project (economy changing).

No doubt there was a lack of morality and caring. Those with too much
didn't care enough for those with too little, and in the end almost
everyone was probably merely raging for their own petty interests.

Then there was also a likely lack of intelligence, which is where you
get errors in thinking which can spread quickly as beliefs by the many,
such as the idea that you don't need land, or you can always buy more,
or (seriously off the rails) the idea that the land owners will care for
those without, and more of such long since disproven illusions.

*

Where does all this ignorance, heartlessness and failure to act come
from, could be the next question. I think, at least in accordance with
human evolution and times extremely long ago, that humans didn't need to
be as smart as they *need to be* right now, they didn't need to care as
much about each other as they *need to care* right now.

Life was in some sense quite complicated before farming, but on the
other hand there was also probably a more direct and instinctual nature
to it. Life in the stone age as hunter gatherers had been going on for a
long time, and certainly presents its own challenges. Perhaps it is
fairer to say that humanity needed to develop a bit of a different kind
of intelligence to deal with the new challenges of farming, so that they
would not destroy themselves with the toys they where going to develop.

We get further and further away from the hunter gatherer way of living,
and therefore the total amount of experience with farming, keeping
animals and everything involved in production methods which become
possible due to these innovations, is always increasing. Experience
breeds understanding. This is for example why everyone should already be
well aware of how failed the ideology of laissez fair Capitalism is
(markets is just about everything, historically also in humans,
certainly in soil also, and in money, all limitless and just let the
market figure it out). History also showed how a centrally planned
economy on a Nation scale of millions of people does not work out well.

We know that there is a problem at least, or should know. As life goes
on, people who thought they where amazing, strong and capable,
eventually their number comes up and life destroys everything they
where. The more people go through something like that, the more
understanding should build toward people who are hurting right now.

On the other hand, people who want to be evil also grow in their
direction of evil. They learn more tricks, they are happy when their
evil pays off. They could become ever more ruthless, although they also
can still become smarter. They could become smarter and more capable,
while their morality develops in the opposite direction, toward more
evil; unless they choose to come back from all that, which would be
quite the change and probably not so easy.

*

The whole subject matter is now a bit cooked, and perhaps it is time to
think of some solutions, or identify more precisely what is the problem.

Is stupidity the (main) problem ? Why, and if so, how can it be resolved.

Is greed and anti-social behavior, heartlessness or even evil the
(main) problem ?

is lack of action and will the problem, is fear to act the problem;
is a lack of an adventurous spirit or creativity the problem ?

Are they all the problem, in various or a specific combination ?

*

Going back to the prosbul, since it is such a specific and fairly simple
topic: are people so stupid that they don't know that the prosbul is the
same as burning down a Torah scroll ? You reject the Torah. This to the
truth element here. Are they so stupid that they don't realize that the
rich already where *forced* under law to make loans to the poor, and
therefore it is senseless and opposite the entire aim to help the poor,
to make it so that the rich can now exploit the poor with their loan
sharking games thanks to the prosbul ?

Are people this stupid ?! Very possible yes. Then again, the prosbul is
even known to be a fraudulent law, a "loop hole". This indicates that
they know they are lying, but they just don't care about being liars.

Not caring about being a liar indicatess a failure of heart, of
morality. This is probably a worse failure. Someone who honestly makes
an intellectual mistake, once shown the mistake they can be very strong
in trying to make up for it. They beat themselves up and do what they
can. "How could I have been so stupid?!". Intellectual mistakes are
relatively easily solved. Mistakes of the heart probably not, because
if you don't care, you just don't care (a slogan of the Italian
Fascists, shall remind you of that again, if you feel like you don't
even care).

This seems to be closer to the answer, and incidentally explain why
nobody basically dares to enter the debate here. They Just Don't Care.
It's fine with them to become liars and traitors to the Torah and their
whole culture. So what ? Why would you care ? The poor get hurt, so ?
What's your point ? It isn't the truth, or maybe it is ? So what ? "I
don't care."

Then we have the problem of initiative, of will of action. Are they too
afraid to act. I doubt that very much. The Jewish people are pretty rich
in initiative, and their history also taught this to them. They needed
to adapt a lot. They have many competent craftsmen, they are creative.
Relative to other people, they are relatively less apathetic. Their
Rabbis also have next to no real power because of the exile, although
this has now changed in the Zionist Rebel State. In this rebel State
(rebels against the Torah), they do have the power to repress, imprison
and murder people who care about the Torah. However I find it highly
doubtful you would get imprisoned even in the Zionist rebel state, for
doing no more than forgiving a loan to a poor person. Correct me if this
is wrong. I guess it is theoretically possible, but unlikely in a State
which still pretends to at least tolerate the existence of the Torah.
It can get that bad though, such as that in some American places you can
get punished for helping homeless people.

I therefore conclude that it is probably mainly a problem of the heart,
of the will to be good people, and of the will to care about the truth.
There is a heartlessness going on ?

Then again, the Jewish people are also known to give a lot of charity.
Compared to other people, they should score high on all three elements: intellect, heart and will. The opposite argument then seems to equally
make sense: they give so much charity, that to not make those loans to
the poor and forgive them must be an error in understanding. It must be
a stupidity issue. Often it seems to be the case that people who care
lack intelligence, and people with intelligence lack care.

In short: I cannot figure it out, based on just some generalized idea of
what these people are like. The Jewish people should be smart enough,
they should care enough, and they have enough initiative, not to make
these mistakes, yet here they are doing it and it seems they will keep
doing it forever (or until their God stops them, possibly with the
harshest punishments, which haven't happened yet but which are promised
to them in their own Torah if they behave the way they are behaving).

Result: null. I could not figure out why they do it. I guess I wasn't
smart enough to figure it out, or I didn't care enough, or lacked the
willpower to just go ask and do research.

I guess a conclusion could be: there is no obvious aspect of character
in the Jewish people, which has caused their failure to keep to the Torah
and in particular to destroy the Torah 7th year loan cancellation.

It isn't "ofcourse they are stupid, because ...", no they aren't that
stupid at all. It isn't "don't you notice how heartless they are to each other?" either. It is also not a clear case of apathy and just never
even doing anything regardless of what it is. It is also not a case of
just some peculiar set up of culture or accident, because there are all
these places the Jewish people lived in an isolated way, and then there
are schisms, and this whole chaos should make it easy for there to be an opinion that this lying called "the prosbul" will have to finally be
stopped. Many centuries went by in constantly changing conditions, and
still they kept doing with their service to the rich as opposed to their solidarity to each other.

I don't know the answer. There does not seem to be a satisfying reason
for why the Jewish people have ruined their Covenant with their God, the
Torah. It is probably some sort of mix of all factors.

*

Another way to look at it is: humanity is a failure at this point, they
are on the brink of self annihilation with their wars and their bombs,
for no reason whatsoever. Completely off the rails, sick, stupid and
insane. It doesn't look that way now, but just wait until the the world
war seriously start, then these angry words might seem too nice.
Although the Jewish people have more chances to do better, and no reason
to fail as they have, it was still too little in every facet of
character.

I also noticed this on a Chabad page:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3671017/jewish/Discover-the-Four-Exiles-of-the-Jewish-People.htm

When reading this I kept wondering: why are these people pretending they
where exiled for no reason, when it is clear how corrupt things always
get and how the prophets of Israel (etc) complain about it non stop.
Finally at the end, you get a reference to evil and corruption within
Israel itself, but only by way of quoting the Tanach. It is like Chabad
is afraid to point the finger to their own people, and just say
outright: "You / we had become corrupt, we where doing too much evil and
this ruined our Nation from the inside out first; and then ...".

Perhaps that is part of the problem then: people do not like being
rebuked. It hurts their pride, it causes them to have to think of
changing something in their lives which is of course a head ache, etc.
It is easier to just blame the enemy for everything, and then you won't
get angry looks from your own people either, because you aren't blaming
them / yourself (as a people).

Then again, even here the Jewish Nation is so much above all the other
Nations. Which Nation keeps around like literally their holy treasures,
the words of people who where almost non-stop outraged at them themselves ?
I don't know even one. Typically, Nations celebrcate themselves to no
end, and often repress anything critical. "The victor tells the story."

Still no answer to the question of why Israel ruined their own Nation,
their peace and freedom, their Justice, their Torah, and why they keep
doing it to this day and why they will probably keep doing this forever
(until their God forces them to stop).

- Should be smart enough.
- Should be caring enough.
- Should be creative enough.
- Should be humble enough.

Compared to other Nations at least, Israel scores well (I believe that
at least, but I don't think too many serious people even doubt it).

Perhaps then it is best to ask the Jewish people themselves, and the
answer they give is: "baseless hatred" is the cause of the exile. It is
then, after all, a failure of the heart, a failure to care enough for
other people, which also quickly can become a failure to care about the
truth, and a failure to act to make bad things better. In absolute terms
it wasn't enough, even if it was better than most if not all other
Nations.

*

Perhaps this is also an issue: there are *objective, absolute* goals to
achieve for humanity, in order to survive as a farmer on Earth, having
settled and thereby becoming capable of a vast increase in technological
power. It doesn't matter if you are the nicest, brightest and finest
Nation on Earth, if all that means you are still a species of violent
trolls who wash their hands more often. You would still wage war, you
would still have a bunch of sick wicked people ruling your Nation
living in extreme wealth, etc. and this would cause the technology to be
abused in such a way that this cannot continue (or should not). It isn't
good enough to just be better, you have to reach a certain objective
absolute standard. Beyond that standard, it doesn't matter anymore to be
the best.

Peace is clearly needed on Earth, and no more Tyranny. The wars with
modern tools, the Tyranny with modern toys, it becomes insane and
potentially goes toward extinction or permanent hell on Earth (I don't
know for sure but it looks difficult). Peace means: not killing other
people (for example), no offensive warfare at least, anywhere on Earth.
No chance to have a Tyranny, anywhere in the future - it just completely
became impossible due to the good behavior of mankind.

You can be better, but if you don't meet this absolute standard, you
will still fail. I guess that is more or less what is going on. All of
humanity is too much a failure on all these facets of character, and
even though Israel might score the best, it is still not good enough to
meet the bar for survival as a technological and farming species.

(I know that things can look tidy and nice for a while, but we are now
on the high just before the next big world war, so this what we are
seeing now is an illusion without fundamental support; it won't last, it
is a lie, and the cause of that is failures such as listed above.)

The key factor for Israel is apparently: baseless hatred.

Personally I also often think of this: stupidity breeds an endless
argument between many bad ideas, while intelligence unites everyone
around the truth. I think that on Earth this is a major factor, the
failure of intelligence.

This we also see in the books of Israel: "my people perish for lack of understanding" (Hosea 4:6). I guess that will then be the final word on
it, as it is from the Prophets of Israel. They lack intelligence. Not so
much compared to other Nations, but compared to what they need to
understand objectively about the world and society to make it work
correctly, regardless of what anyone else is doing or if anyone else
even exists.

You could argue that maybe it is intelligence than after all, because
when Rabbis sit in a classroom and might teach the prosbul with a
straight face as if they are not lying, how can they do that if they
have a measure of intelligence ? How can they fail on something this
simple ? Do they really not care about the Torah at all, is it just
going through the motions to make a buck and send the class home ?

"God will sort it out." -- It seems it will have to come to that.
Whatever is the cause: maybe they don't understand, maybe they don't
care, or maybe they just don't want to act, or all three, the mess the
humans are creating on Earth cannot continue.

*

I think the Jewish Nation will never come back to the Torah of Moshe
Rabbeinu. Their rejection which became especially bad with Hillel the
Elder and the Lamp of Helena it seems, seems to have been a choice for
forever. However, we are still supposed to get to the Redemption, and
Jeremiah 31:31 "a new Covenant", and that will then be the new thing.
The law would then be explained and written into their minds and on
their hearts, so that they will *understand* it. It seems to become
something from revelation and belief, into learning and understanding.

At that point they would also start understanding their Torah, the laws
of Moshe Rabbeinu (given through if you want -), and maybe that will
also more or less rejuvenate and resurect the Torah which they have
broken.

Here again we see the aspect of intelligence, of understanding, which
seems like it will be fixed upon them. Perhaps it is then mainly an intellectual mistake, which is hopeful because it is the easiest to fix
(in my opinion). Compare: you just don't care about people, or you have
bad habbits. A wrong opinion seems relatively easy to fix, right ?

(This time I truly wrote too many words with too little content. lol
It is probably best I just stop trying, there is no use to it. They
either don't care or don't understand, which is incomprehensible to me
but okay, I guess facts are facts and you don't keep lying about
something like the prosbul for 2 thousand years for no reason ?
Failure to distribute the land and keep the Jubilee is probably a much
worse mistake, but the prosbul is a handy technical issue which is
simpler, also active outside the land, easier to debate and just break
through this obstinacy. Once that has broken down, perhaps it is on to
bigger and better things, such as land free for all by right.)

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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