• Worthless replies on Rambam from Israel: you have lost your minds. (1/2

    From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 7 14:35:49 2024
    There seemed to be a slight opening for Teshuvah with this Rabbi, perhaps
    this motivated me to leave a reply on his youtube video. It is not him
    (the Rabbi) who then replied to that. It isn't the fault of the Rabbis
    that what are perhaps his followers, students or perhaps just random
    folk who saw his video, misbehave in subsequent replies. On the contrary,
    if he has to deal with this kind of people, I feel sorry for the Rabbi.

    Rabbis always keep silent, though. Perhaps they know that they don't
    have any arguments, and they rather not alert their people to that
    fact by mounting an absurd argument which is clearly fake. Silence is
    a potent weapon in such cases. It makes the followers believe that the
    reply was wrong for some "obvious" reason, which they just don't know
    about, because they are too humble to even think they know anything,
    or they are too mindless to care to find out what is going on, or both.

    This is of course merely a general complaint about most Rabbis that I
    have encountered (or all even), not this particular one. Perhaps he is
    studying in earnest, and will soon do Teshuvah, thus kicking off the
    final Redemption ! We shall see ... Just like Israel is not "holding
    their breath" or the Redemption, neither am I holding my breath on their Teshuvah anymore. They chose lies, and this is a strong and fundamental
    choice they made for themselves, a choice for death (in the parlance
    of Judaism).

    I post this here with the complete comments, because I want Israel to
    know how they are misbehaving, and also treating me personally. How they
    react to an obviously true rebuke on the Torah (Da'at Torah you call
    this, argued from the Torah itself ?). How you have misbehaved to me personally. You call me a "heretic", which I suspect is the death
    penalty in the Torah.

    To be honest on all the replies I have gotten, which seems to be well
    under 20 in total for 10+ years of many articles written on the same
    topic over and over again, always basically the same, they fall out into
    two categories

    Relatively friendly remark "this is interesting", and relatively rude
    reply "how dare you ... you are wrong ...". These replies both share a
    common characteristic: they are both useless. Nothing comes out of
    either of them in the end, nothing practical gets done. Secondly, they
    do never contain any meaningful argument. As far as I can recall, in all
    this time, i have never received any meaningful argument from Israel.

    I once heard something like, leave us alone with our books, we don't
    want outsiders commenting on our books. i heard perhaps twice (both
    woman) say it was interesting, but nothing further. I heard woman
    complain that what I was writing was not what they wanted their children
    to read (!). They literally condemned their children to a life against
    the Torah, which easily means consigning them over to death(!). That's
    what the Torah says, at least eventually. So deep is the indoctrination,
    the hard neck, and their idolatry to their "sages", this is how deeply
    they broke with their God. I heard (now) that what I wrote was
    "heretical in Judaism" (which is true if you define 'Judaism' as that
    ideology which is at odds with the Torah and itself heretical, but by
    then it already lost its real meaning). I heard once a complaint, even
    though I was only arguing the Torah on its economics, that I am not
    'moshiach'. Apparently the inference was made, that because I try to
    mend the "breaches in the Torah", that I therefore implied I was
    'moshiach' ? Was it merely because I arroused irritation for writing a
    long text ?

    Whatever the case, I am always grateful when a Rabbi does not remove my comment. If you leave it on, not sencor it out and hide it, destroy it,
    I am grateful to you. You are not ultimately hiding the argument, even
    if you do not reply and do not do Teshuvah. You give me a reason to see
    you as a friend, you provided that platform which allowed the argument
    to take place at all. Without your youtube, there would have been no
    platform, no way to reach Israel. You created that window in what
    perhaps would either be even the Redemption itself, or at least a return
    to the Torah on the economics of it (not exactly a minor topic, at
    all!).

    title: What makes Moshiach, Moshiach
    source: @RabbiIsserZWeisberg
    link: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/guWUaQwdbS4

    Reply:

    @josboersema1352

    Rambam describes the requirenments of 'moshiach', as if he is an
    outsider. He is merely looking at it, and not participating. However it
    is worse, he is actively trying to undermine the Torah and the Redemption
    in I guess at least 3 ways.

    1. He argues with Jewish people to not support this 'moshiach' or not
    support in full, until the whole process is already done. This would
    mean many Jewish people are going to read Radmab, and even though they
    should have known better already, they will not support who does end up
    being 'moshiach', until it is all over and they ended up doing nothing
    for it. This could also mean, these Jews will end up outside of the
    Redemption, and no longer being allowed to do Teshuvah, they will loose
    their place in the Redemption, potentially forever. That's your Rambam
    for you. The Redemption is also about 'Teshuvah'. If you postpone the 'Teshuvah' until everything has already been done, you could be accused
    of doing Teshuvah because you want to join the winning team, and not
    because you care about the truth (when it is hard).

    2. The second way Rambam destroys the Jewish people on the issue of
    Redemption, is because he accuses this 'moshiach' of tarrying. Moshiach
    is not tarrying, but rather the exact opposite (this is in the Torah:
    in its time, I will hurry him) Rambam however says '... I believe
    ... even though he might tarry ...' This is a lie. It looks like he
    made up this lie all by himself ? Who told him this lie, if he didn't
    make it up himself ? Because Rambam tells Jewish people that it in not
    their fault in tarrying with the Torah that the Redemption is every
    day delayed by another day, but rather it is the 'moshiach's fault,
    therefore Jewish people are coaxed into blaming the fact that there
    is no Redemption on 'moshiach'. Moshiach is just hanging out on the
    beach doing some 'tarrying' for unknown reasons, while Jewish people
    are suffering another massive attack. I already saw Jews joking about
    this. It is also Loshon Hara, it is hate talk behind someone their back.

    3. This is the worst of how Rambam destroys the Redemption, because he
    codified the lies of the Rabbis about various topics of law, by which
    they have overthrown the Torah and are causing the exile: prozbul, not
    doing the Jubilee (absurd reading of the Torah), breaking the Shabbos
    with absurd day change moment, and he added the 'heter iska, to these fraudulest economic laws (its all about serving the rich, rather than
    Justice, if you notice).

    Rambam also went back to Egypt, and was part of an expulsion from Spain,
    both of which indicate that he was rejected. He was also rejected in this
    time, but the Rabbis caved in and became even more corrupt because of
    him. There will not likely be a Redemption ever, unless you do Teshuvah
    for following the so-called 'Sages', such as Hillel the Elder and Rambam / Maimonides. You have made up your own phony Torah, to serve the rich and
    get money out of them. The rich and criminal are probably funding all
    this, because they like it when they can keep their money. It doesn't
    matter to them if you spend your money on Charity, but it matters to
    them if you force them to pay for easy loans, nullify them, and not be
    allowed to play debt games for profit with others, or if they have to
    return the land which they are buying in perpetuity or outright stealing
    it, or if they cannot work their slaves and animals one day in the week
    (so now at least they can work their slaves/employees in the evening
    already, that is progress for these criminals and they will probably
    end up supporting those who spread those lies, or some will - and that
    could be enough). You see the point ?

    Keep in mind also that Israel has a hard neck, and this is not
    (necessarily) a good thing, it is not noted in the Torah as a good thing,
    but as a bad thing. This obstinacy of Israel, this ultra over the top conservatism on the one hand, but then paired with these betrayals which
    you sadly did allow to occur, it means your obstinacy is set the wrong
    way. The obstinacy is protecting people like Rambam now, because they
    are thought to be part of a tradition - a tradition of crime that is, Rabbinical crimes.

    You think the truth won't come out in the end ? Rabbis have everything
    to fear from going on like this. The Torah says the Redemption will
    happen. Rabbis are not going to be able to stop it. You can only affect
    your own position relative to it, and that is all. Rabbinical Judaism
    has to fall. Your ordination papers are likely going to work against you, because they mean you should have known better, Rabbis should have known better, but they included lies in teaching Torah to Israel. This is not acceptable. The level of these lies is horrible, brazen, and insane.

    How can Israel even think heaven will even consider them for Redemption,
    when they are lying about the Torah this way ? It is so easy to correct,
    but they don't. They don't do Teshuvah, then hheaven will block your Redemption, if need be forever or until almost all have died.

    This isn't a debate anymore. This is an order to do Teshuvah. If you
    do not (as a people, and as Rabbis), the consequences will be yours. I
    cannot see how someone promoting these lies can live in 'a world of
    truth', or the Redemption which is build on the same (the truth, justice,
    and peace). People need to stop listening to these Rabbis, stop joining
    them in their classes, until they have verified that the Rabbis are not teaching (these) lies anymore, or even forever. You just cannot trust
    someone to tell you the Torah, you cannot place your trust in humans -
    this is what the Torah itself says. You can only put trust in your God,
    hence you must always verify what someone says about the Torah (including
    what I am saying here). Look it up ! It is that simple, especially now
    with the Internet. If you need pointers, just ask, I can give a list.

    -------o-------

    @[anomymized, person []
    1 day ago (edited)
    This, the statement that Jews only make Aliyah when the final conditions
    are met, is simply not true because The Rambam lists specifications to
    reach a lower bar where the leader is only Chezkat Mashiach.

    +1

    -------o-------

    @josboersema1352

    @[anonymized, person 1] Hello, thank you for your reply. You reply
    to my comment, but I did not mention 'Aliyah' (returning to the land
    of Israel). You made a statement on your own, and then said it was not
    true. On the other hand, it could be a reasonable consequence of what
    Rambam is doing, as per the argument I gave (and perhaps the Rabbi did
    the same, but he seemed to perhaps pander to it to a degree.)

    This is what Rambam seems to write:

    4. If a king arises from the House of David23 who meditates on the
    Torah and occupies himself with the commandments like his ancestor
    David, in accordance with the written and oral Torah,24 and he will
    prevail upon all of Israel to walk in [the ways of the Torah] and
    strengthen its breaches,25 and he will fight the battles of G‑d26
    it may be assumed that he is Mashiach.27

    Hence, you are only going to assume someone is moshiach, when he basically already succeeded completely. He even has all of Israel walk in the
    ways of the Torah, already fought the battles of Hashem, strengthen
    the breaches of the Torah. The whole thing is done. Only then you are
    to assume he is 'Moshiach' ? Hence the point: you end up sitting on the sidelines doing nothing, when the Redemption is in full swing. Not unlike
    the Jewish people in Egypt perhaps, who stayed in Egypt (sources say,
    many stayed in Egypt, the vast majority even).

    Rambam treats this title 'moshiach' as if it is something for a
    history lesson, or some determination or title after someone has done something. While you can look at it that way, it is not actionable (so
    to say). You want to jump on with 'moshiach' and the Torah and the truth
    as soon as you can, as soon as you know that there is more truth with 'moshiach' then without (so to say), or to listen to his voice (what he
    is saying).

    I now read this Rambam again, and it's just even worse: not only is
    'moshiach' supposed to pretty much do the whole job already before you
    may 'assume' he is 'moshiach', he already needs to be a King as well
    (at least in these statements). The bar to meet here is just wild, and
    it is also not in the Torah, because the prophets say: riding lowly on a
    donkey and also comes on the wings of an eagle by which we can assume,
    was not already there (is not a King already). We see all kinds of
    suggestions everywhere, that 'moshiach' is hated, is scorned, is ignored,
    is thought to be a banished person, afflicted by the will fo God, and so
    on. Not a King in his palace parading around being powerful and wealthy,
    who then on top of all that behaves like King David.

    Hence the idea (but there may be other parts of Rambam which are different
    - I don't read the works of known liars such as Rambam / Maimonides so
    ... and I can't be asked to either), that Rambam delays the Redemption,
    by making it more difficult for someone to do the job succesfully, because people might think: "This one matches everything so far, the job seems
    to be on, we see the progress, we see the truth, we see that this is
    a correction of the Torah ... but alas, he's not declared King yet or
    alas ... he hasn't made all of Israel come back to the Torah (because
    I am resisting what he says, because Rambam told me to be cautious to
    the end until the full proof was in), so we just wait and see. Rambam
    creates that 'moshiach' cannot do the job, because people might think:
    we may not assume yet, because he did not convince me yet ! Why not
    convince you (that person) yet: because that person is waiting until
    everyone returns to the Torah, only then he can assume this is 'moshiach'
    and we should listen ! lol .. isn't it funny ? Well, maybe not.

    Have a guten Shabbos. Counter arguments always welcomed, of course.

    -------o-------

    @[anonymized, person 2]

    Quite the rant. Let me start with saying, nobody should listen to what
    you're saying because it's heretical to Judaism. If people were following
    every person claiming to be moshiach, and more than one had fulfilled
    one sign only but none had fulfilled them all, this would mean "I guess"
    a few things:

    A) you guessed so you obviously aren't even learned yet and you'd
    like to teach; try getting a job in public schools somewhere in a blue
    state. Better suits your experience.

    B) all the people would be divided over who to believe at a time when the
    REAL moshiach will likely need all of the people behind him to accomplish
    his overwhelming task.

    C) anyone who "guesses" that he can outsmart Rambam at halakha is not
    worth hearing from. You may as well try to one on one with Michael Jordan
    in his prime.

    D) if you can't outsmart Rambam, but you think you can, you surely can't
    hang with moshiach. He will be there to speak up for himself in ways
    Rambam can't, and leave you embarrassed like you belong.

    @josboersema1352
    3 hours ago
    @EmetSheker Thank you for your reply. Your reply was rude, I tell
    you that so that you can work on that. I did not suggest people should
    run after anyone who looks like he could be moshiach (like the Rabbis
    sometimes are doing, and now again some are doing that with Rebbe
    Schneerson of Chabad), unless perhaps it is only to the extend it matches
    the Torah. The point has been made, and you have not added any arguments, besides this attempt at going to the other extreme of the argument.

    Since there is nobody who can make any meaningful argument on the
    important topics it seems (I have been on this since 2008), and with
    important i do not mean what Rambam writes but rather what Moshe
    Rabbeinu (The Torah) writes about money (loans) and land (Jubilee)
    and rest (Shabbos), I guess it has to be taken as proven than, what
    I have written above: prozbul, heter iska, no Jubilee and working
    on Shabbos evening, these are frauds of the Rabbis. Rambam pretends
    these frauds are law. They are in the Shulchan Aruch. Israel, you are
    in rebellion. You are an idolatrous nation, who worships authority
    rather than to be honest with the truth and what the Torah says. You
    have written that my arguments are not worth listening to, but they are
    from the Torah. In the 7th year the debt to the poor Jew is cancelled,
    in the 50th the land returns to the family, the 7th day is for rest,
    you shall not ask interest from your fellow Jew on a loan.

    The Torah is clear, it is not is heaven. You do not need to ask someone
    living in Egypt what it means. You are causing your own exile with your
    hard neck. Do not expect a Redemption when you go on with these treasonous
    laws and phony sages. Rambam is a heretic who changes the law, Rambam
    is not moshiach either. Every round of punishment is 7 times worse,
    until you return or almost none are left. The last punishment was the
    Nazis. Return to the law, lower your head for your God, who is your King,
    and for the truth as all reasonable and kind people have to.

    [Paragraph division and s/meat/mean/ added/corrected.]

    -------o-------

    I was wondering if there was suddenly a reply, because this might be
    the last time I try to help you, Israel. I am further strengthened in
    my decision that I will *never* join your Nation of hard necked people,
    who take 10+ years to admit an obvious lie about the Torah, and just all
    around avoid even the civil behavior of a debate on a communication /
    debating platform (including this, Usenet). You reject the rebuke, like
    you have always rejected the rebuke.

    You are an idolatrous Nation, with a hard neck. Stubborn. Nevertheless,
    the true Jew has a heart of gold (so to say), a kind heart, and a witty
    mind. Somehow I can never really get to find any of those, but I know
    they exist and are even common.

    You should know I merely compute the Torah for you (as I call it),
    *your* Torah. In terms of *your* Torah, there is no way you can be
    Redeemed, and if you get banished from Eretz Yisroel after the
    Redemption for following Rambam, you would be lucky (!). It is outright treason, and this carries heavy penalties in the Torah. Perhaps several
    years in prison at the minimum, and then worsening on repeat offenses ?
    I am talking about carrying out the treasons of Rambam of course, not
    merely to have his book or say it is true, because it probably falls
    short of outright idolatry. You would be guilty over such things as
    ...well there we go: breaking the Shabbos (which I assume is in there in
    the Rabbinical sense, which implies breaking the Shabbos in the
    evening). You would be guilty over asking interest from another Jew,
    you would be guilty over not nullifying or making loans to the poor, if
    it is determined that you should have. You would be guilty, perhaps
    worst of all, of not returning the land in the 50th year, or being part
    of a movement which prevents the Jubilee on land to occur at all (!).
    You would be guilty over serious offenses, and then you come up for law enforcement, court case, and possible punishment. This is how I compute
    the Torah, your Torah, because it is a clear law, easy to understand.

    Then of course I have my own proposal to the entire world, not
    necessarily Israel (see signature). In that case, things are probably a
    lot more relaxed. Anyone who wants to support that, I'm happy of course.
    Anyone who tries, I'm happy, anyone who even bothers to understand, I'm
    happy. It doesn't matter if I'm happy or not, either, but just saying.
    There are no such things as death penalties for idolatry or working on
    the 7th day in this system, not even close. The death penalty is also
    not even part of this system, it is rather specifically outlawed. I do
    not trust human justice enough, to be able to make irreversible
    punishments. Therefore all severely degrading (torture, maiming) and irreversible punishments (death) are against this law system.

    You could however still speak of 'requirenments' of making a success out
    of this legal system, even though it is made to accomodate as dumb and
    bad a people as possible. Why would dumb and bad people want this legal
    system at all ? Good question, they probably don't. Nevertheless, if
    they wheren't so dumb or had a flash of insight and care, perhaps they
    would realize it is better for them to all hold on to a piece of the
    power and make that a formality, so that they can prevent and curb the
    worst of the tyrannical abuses which may be coming in the future, or
    even much of it. It would not surprise me if we end up with a situation,
    where both the hardened and older street gangsters who have been through
    a lot and seen it all, that they if they study this system, end up
    liking it, because they know basically what is going on more than the
    average street fool who never put a thought into anything, believing
    everything that is on TV. In case people don't know, hardened higher
    ranking criminals are studying history, war, philosophy, of course
    things like war tactics and so on. You can't be a complete fool if you
    want to operate in the higher ranks of the criminal underworld - it is
    its own thing. Some of these people end up realizing how ultimately
    damaging and fraudulent the whole thing of course is, but then they
    shrugg their shoulders saying: we never had a fair chance in this life,
    and that is basically true. They didn't have their land, society was
    bogged down under organized crime already (psychopathic bankers,
    financiers and evil ultra-rich people, a lying mass media, etc). The
    jump to support the Torah from there, is very great. The Torah requires
    top level morality, in the face of any adversity, whatsoever. If the
    whole world is against you, you still persist. My legal system however,
    argues: give everyone a fair chance and keep it so, and if we see people abusing others, we have tools and protocols and a position of power to
    do something about that. If you cannot make a fair living in this
    system, that become more or less your own fault, in ways that this is
    not true in Capitalism. You don't have your land in Capitalism, and you
    will *never* be part of anything if you end up being a burger flipper,
    or a magazine box pusher, or a road worker. You'll just be someone
    else's tool, until they discard you. This viciousness also helps people
    ratify their choice for crime: if the top is criminals (which they are),
    then why don't we do the same but for ourselves ? The system as I
    propose it, can make it easy for some of the top criminals who are kind
    of tired of the whole thing, to see the logic of it all, and then
    perhaps end up being motivated to suppor it. I think this will be a
    strong force in the end, if this happens, because the criminals have a
    lot of initiative, and at least the top guys, they are not that stupid. Ordinary criminal, probably still quite stupid, although somewhat
    cunning. It is a bit like an army thing, where the ordinary criminal is
    like a trooper, but the high ranking criminals are more like the
    officers and/or the special forces in the criminal underworld. They
    understand things a lot faster. It would be very good to have this force
    on our side. It is a possibility that this can happen, although it
    should also happen with the Torah - until the Jubilee was ruined, and
    that probably made it all collapse. Without your land, you don't have a
    real chance anymore. They took your freedom, they took away your life.

    Then of course we have good people, who should without fail support what
    I propose at least above the Capitalist-Parliament system we have now,
    which is simply a failed economic system and a tenuous system of State
    which invites corruption (too long mandates for a people who lack the
    honesty and a conscience to handle it). Compared to some other systems,
    on the other hand: it can be a bit of a tossup. The only real argument
    against what I am proposing is that people may lack the civilization to
    deal with it, the motivation, or they even just *want* to be slaves
    (well paid slaves, of course ... but how long will that last ?).

    Then there is a third possibility: Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, plus this
    system as I propose it on top of it, or mixed in with it somehow. This
    is a possibility, and perhaps less unlikely than it might look at first. Example: if my proposal was done in the Netherlands, do you think we
    will stop making cheese and eating herring ? I certainly hope not. In
    the case of Israel, should Israel stop with the Shabbos once they gain
    an interest in what I propose (if ever) ? I think, absolutely not ! (A
    7th day rest is not presscribed as a Constitutional law in my model, but
    I do promote the idea that a people will decide by themselves to make
    such a law, to have a rest day and rest days).

    It remains to be seen how this is supposed to work out, however. It is a
    good debate I suppose. Even a good test, if they are able to have that
    kind of debate and come out with something good. In terms of practical requirenments: heart and mind need to be at a minimum, I suppose. Understanding, and care for others (and yourself as if you are another,
    I guess). Intelligence and care for the common good, for people who are suffering in particular. If you behave perfectly under the Torah of
    Moshe Rabbeinu, but you are really a fool and don't understand anything,
    this may not be good enough to operate in the system as I propose it.
    You should not be a fool if you are a Jew, because you should have had
    your land, and your land is a challenge in life, and that makes you
    wiser (or should), I think. Sadly however, you ruined that for
    yourselves. On the other hand, if your heart is wide and all of Israel
    fits in your heart, even if you are a fool for now, the mind is easier
    to fix than the heart (my opinion). Perhaps you can still make it, if
    you really care for people; no better: you *should* make it, you should
    force yourself to make it, and you will make it.

    The mind of a fool, believes stupidity to be true.

    Compare this though:

    The heart of the evil man, enjoys it when he sees someone suffer.

    The fool hurts himself, and with enough time and experience, he will
    eventually be wiser than the wisest man on Earth.

    The evil man on the other hand, how can he turn his heart around so that
    he will have pain when he sees another in pain, and be glad when he sees another be happy ? How can he turn his hysterical evil laughter when he
    sees pain in others, to have the irrepressable urge to cry when he sees
    another suffer terribly ?

    All the fool has to do, is gain experiences with things in life, even
    technical things, making things, learning about crafts, and so on.

    How does the evil man turn his heart around, though. I don't even know
    the answer to that. Through intense will power, through suffering badly
    himself ? Perhaps that is the way. It doesn't sound so easy, and who is
    going to administer this suffering, if the whole Nation has become good ?
    I guess he will suffer though, because if the whole world is at peace
    and happy, but he - the evil man - gains his happiness from seeing
    others suffer and also abusing others for self gain, this person is more
    or less lost. He will suffer, because he cannot enjoy a real peace,
    cannot manipulate the truth with his lies anymore, can't get away with
    abusing people, and may feel a terrible and overwhelming fear because
    "the good guys" finally did win and did win forever. There is no escape
    for those who want to do evil, there is on chance anymore for them, and
    they might not enjoy working for an honest trade. They are more or less
    alone with their own evil and warped nature, in a world where there is
    no place for that anymore, no joy to be extracted from being that way.

    Therefore, if you are merely a fool, but a "good fool", (such as Jewish
    people who believe in Rambam, which is being a fool), you shouldn't
    loose all hope because of this herecy and this betrayal of the Torah.
    So long as you care for your brothers and sisters, but you just got
    confused, it shouldn't be extremely difficult to get corrected, and
    live. You could just admit you have been confused, try to do better,
    support what is right, and hope that next time a Rambam or an Hillel the
    Elder comes along, that you will be wise enough by then to resist them.

    If, on the other hand, Jewish people do not wish to repent from
    supporting Rambam / Maimonides, with all the betrayals he has listed
    (which I think is enough to ruin Israel as a sovereignty, especially the
    loss of the Jubilee is a catastrophy) ... then perhaps you have dropped
    down to such a level of foolishness, that there is no immediate hope for
    that. If there are not enough wiser Jewish people, to drag the fools
    along with them on the hope that they will still learn and in the merrit
    of their caring hearts, then there may be no alternative than another
    round of punishment, 7 times worse each round, until this condition has
    been met, and Israel can finally be Redeemed.

    (Of course I can make up something about how to mix the Torah with what
    I am proposing, there is all kinds of possibilites with either this or
    the other system having the precedence; I could do that, but I would
    rather that you did that if you wanted that, and for now if you are
    Jewish and religious you should just stop lying about your Torah
    already, and stop dishonering Moshe Rabbeinu and the Prophets and King
    David with your fallen Sages such as Hillel and Rambam. The truth is the
    truth, and this is possibly the easiest step for you to take. If you are
    not religious even, then I guess you could just investigate what I am
    proposing in the signature, and do that. Both groups can also come
    together, which is actually a natural consequence of the State election
    system as proposed. I however, do not understand why you want to be
    liars, I just do not comprehend it. Why are you lying about the Torah.
    Who do *you* think you are, to be lying about the Torah ? Prozbul is a
    lie, there is no discussion possible on that. Selling land in perpetuity
    and pretending that this is the Torah, is a lie. How can you function in
    any sort of culture, if you are into lying ?! I just don't see it, I
    don't understand it, and I will never be part of it.)

    At least I made right on one thing you did: indeed, this is "quite the
    rant" now ;-).

    You did it all to yourselves, Israel. Your God was there for you, with outstretched arms, to take you back, because you still have your written
    Torah, your Tanach, and it seems to be in fine condition, quite unlike
    the mess you have created around it.

    I understand that you may be fearfull of me in person (well, it can
    happen), or fearfull of making a mistake. Your focus is off. You should
    be afraid of not doing your Torah, and you should be afraid of your God,
    not of me. I ask you just this: do your Torah. Do I try to force you to
    do my legal system ? Never, I always say: you can study it, and if you understand and agree, then do it. That's all ! You also don't even have
    to acknowledge me in any way, but I just want you to stop lying about
    your own Torah. I want you, Israel, to be the Lamp to the Nations, so
    that the world has a chance, a chance to life.

    I don't want all these people to die and suffer. There is so much
    foolishness and stupidity, and this causes people to suffer badly, but
    this time it might take on a whole new dimension thanks to modern
    technology, warfare & Tyranny with it. I just want people to life and
    have a chance, but they are fools. If you don't give them the example,
    and they already murdered out the Native Indians of north America almost entirely (many who also have good ideas, and they understand it unlike

    [continued in next message]

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  • From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 7 18:03:36 2024
    Subject: Re: Worthless replies on Rambam from Israel: you have lost your minds.

    Someone continued making snidey remarks about undersigned, rather than
    engage the argument on the Torah. This is how you behave, Israel ? Do
    you stand for this, is this guy even Jewish at all ?!

    @EmetSheker

    @josboersema1352 it is very common in Judaism for the unlearned to make
    a face-value assessment before they even understand the Kabbalah. If
    they stay the course they later realize how foolish they'd been; if
    they don't stay the course, they are still wrong but they just don't
    know it. I place you in this second category of folks who persist in
    delusion rather than embracing reality.

    End quote.


    @EmetSheker

    Hello, thanks for you reply again. Since you seem to draw into
    question my knowledge or lack thereof, all I can tell you is that I
    have attempted to understand economics for a long time, and that I
    have written a 673 page book about it as well, which runs out into a
    series of Constitutions. Since this world is such a mess, I will admit
    I basically just tried to think for myself, rather than waste my time
    with more nonsense books from (pseudo) Academics.

    Lo and behold however, I ended up investigating the Torah, and I saw
    that it is good and true. The Jubilee on land (especially that, it is absolutely critical in an economy to distribute the land by right)
    the restrictions upon greed games with money, the Torah of Moshe
    Rabbeinu is good. It is not _identical_ to what I wrote, but the same
    on principle. Distributing the land to all is not completely unique
    of course. Native Indians of America also understand this, or many at
    least did and probably do. Even the Russians originally gave land to all
    in the so-called Mir (village, or 'whole' I guess). Hence I was quite enthusiastic over the Jewish people.

    Until I discovered what was written in the Shulchan Aruch about this
    topic, and eventually i tracked down who where the cause of the lies:
    previous generations before Hillel the Elder ruined the Jubilee with lies
    which possibly are still on the books today, pretending all of Israel
    nedes to be in the land before there is a Jubilee, based on an absurd
    reading of the text where it says the Jubilee shall be proclaimed to all
    the inhabitants. Shameful, ridiculous, and criminal, is all I have to
    say about these Rabbinical crimes. If Moshe Rabbeinu was alive when these rebbellions where happening, I suspect not one Rabbi would have made it
    out alive. They would have been destroyed. Sorry, but that's how the Torah reads, when you already have a death penalty for working on the Shabbos.

    Lies which can be tracked to the purpetrators seem to be: Hillel the
    Elder created the prozbul, and Rambam / Maimonides created the heter
    iska. Both are wrong, and against the Torah. I don't know if it's a
    death penalty in the Torah, however. Flogging maybe ? A few years in a
    cell ? Banishment ? Who knows. Death penalty after all ?

    Also I don't know who is guilty over the fake day change moment
    in Judaism, when they pretend it is the next day because it got
    dark. One supposed Rabbi (Internet) said that it was done for ritualistic purposes. It is not based on Bereshieth, as I have read somewhere, because
    that doesn't seem to make any sense. It's just another fraud. It is the
    next day after that night its sleep, everyone knows that. It's a trick,
    to facilitate breaking the Shabbos.

    Incidentally, you might think my book is garbage and that's fine with
    me. Since it isn't selling, it proofs nothing about me. Keep note,
    you make me the topic, so that's why I write about me, when I prefer to
    write about the Torah. I just say, that I did a fair amount of thinking
    on economics. At one time I met someone who studied it, and I told him
    about the importance of land ownership by right, and he was surprised
    that I knew of this, while I was surprised that he knew of this. Hence,
    again, it shows that it is kind of a known thing, even though this wold pretends not to notice - just like the Rabbis pretend not to notice
    certain laws in the Torah, especially economic ones which take down
    wealth from the rich (who I guess, are more often their masters than
    they should be ... Yeshivah finance, grants, and the like ...).

    I did at least program a computer program for Linux (Unix), written
    in C and Zshell script. It is a lot of lines of code, 25 000 if I
    recall (including comments, of which I usually write many, as you can
    imagine by now). It is a voting system, to facilitate secure voting
    with some anonimity and verification qualities. It was published about internationally in 2003.

    However, none of this really matters. You seem to think this is about
    "who to listen to", and in my world, that is when you already lost, even
    before you began. In the Torah, there is the law of prophets. Those are
    the ones you may listen to with authority, and nobody else. Not sages,
    not nobody. Only prophets, which includes Moshe Rabbeinu. You are
    out of order if you make Rambam an authority. He may be someone whose
    opinions you value, but it must always be based on the Torah. Rambam has
    ZERO authority. Everything MUST come from the Torah, because he is no
    prophet. Hillel, the same. If you make these people authorities in their
    own right, you have broken the Torah law, also on this account. I should complain about this more often, I realize now. It is another Rabbinical
    fraud, to put Rambam up as an authority on its own. I saw their little
    games with how one generation is not allowed to question the previous one,
    and all that. It's not in the Torah, yet they put it out as law. Thanks
    for making me realize this further infraction by the Rabbis.

    Have a good day.

    End quote. Nuff' said. ;-)
    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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  • From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to @[...] on Sun Sep 8 09:46:07 2024
    Rabbinical excuses to avoid Torah never end: no Jubilee because ...
    (excuse number 2) <insert whiney voice> "We don't know when to do it
    exactly ...". Pathetic, shameful, and destructive. In the below we see
    that this is happening: someone who seems to follow "the Rabbis",
    pretends that the Jubilee does not have to be followed, because they
    don't know when, even though claiming the Jubilee should be instated.

    Presumable Youtube sencorship games prevented me to read all the replies
    a person had written (multiple replies now appeared to have been written already, but remained hidden until now).

    I wrote:
    @[...] Thank you for your reply. Your reply was rude, I tell you
    that so that you can work on that. (...)

    @[...] wrote:
    @josboersema1352 when do we start and end the Yoval? Hmmm? We need
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    moshiach to say. So that's why the rabbonim -- much wiser than you -- suspended it so that we didn't accidentally do it in the wrong time. I'm
    all for the Yoval being reinstituted. It's not ready yet. So we need
    to study to figure out when the first known Yoval to be observed took
    place. From there we may POSSIBLY be able to figure it out, otherwise
    it can ONLY come from נבוה
    @[...] wrote:
    @josboersema1352 this isn't our sin, this is the sin of the first
    generation not to take it seriously which led us to forget.

    @[...] wrote:
    @josboersema1352 it is very common in Judaism for the unlearned to make
    a face-value assessment before they even understand the Kabbalah.
    (...)

    @[...] wrote:
    @josboersema1352 to forego a blessing is much better than to receive
    a curse...any Jew would know that. You're not a Jew so...why aren't
    you busy learning your own religion? Oh that's right...your soul
    craves truth.

    @josboersema1352 wrote:
    @[...] Hello, thanks for you reply again. Since you seem to draw into
    question my knowledge or lack thereof, all I can tell you is that
    (...)

    Reply to this absurd argument of pretending they need a date for the
    Jubilee. The point of the Jubilee is to make sure people have their
    right to land honored. If it has been more than 50 years since the last Jubilee, then the obvious solution is to do it right away, so as not to
    make it even worse than it already is.

    Does Jehoshua ben Nun wait for a specific constellation of the stars,
    the moon and the planets, to then kick off the first Jubilee at a
    special moment after they conquered the land ? This is not what I read
    in the Torah. They just do it, when they are done with conquering the
    land.

    It is like talking to children. "I don't want to do the dishes!" Parent:
    "But you are 16 years old now and you need to learn to do your own
    household, and you haven't done anything in the house all week." Child:
    "No I don't want to do the dishes! I couldn't find my socks this morning either, and now we are out of crisps too!". Does it even need to make
    sense ? No, it's just trash talk, so they can ruin the Nation and serve
    the rich, greedy and immoral. "You said I should do the dishes at 7
    O'clock, and now it is 7:10 O'clock, therefore I can't do the dishes
    anymore, it is too late!". Ridilous. Poor Moshe Rabbeinu, having had to
    deal with this kind of people.

    No Redemption is possible with this kind of foolishness.

    *

    @[...] 54 replies now ? Never seen this before. I also did not see two
    of your replies, the first starting with: _"when do we start and end
    the Yoval? Hmmm?"_ Youtube censorship is a serious problem. How can I
    debate someone, if I don't see half of their replies.

    In any case: I do not accept your reason, whatsoever. It is just another
    trick in the box of lies by the Rabbis, to overthrow the economic Torah. I suspect the Rabbis are being funded by the rich greedy and immoral to
    such a degree, the Rabbis throw out the Torah to keep the money coming
    in. That is the only reasonable explanation I see for these lies. If
    you don't know a good date for a new Jubilee, then make a best guess,
    or even better: do it immediately, do it *today.*

    The Rabbis have no fear of God, and no respect for the Torah. I think
    nobody should listen to them anymore. When the next round of punishment happens, 7 times worse than the Nazis, then you will know how bad and unacceptable it is. If 'moshiach' finally comes to the few who survive,
    and the Rabbis where blocking the truth like they are blocking the
    Jubilee, then perhaps Israel will perhaps finally free themselves of
    the Rabbinical traitors to the Torah. The Rabbis are a diverse group of
    course, some might have fought against these lies for what they are worth, although it seems doubtful you could do that and remain within any sort
    of mainstream Rabbinical authority as recognized by that system. You
    would be calling Rambam what he is: a liar, a fraud, a traitor and a
    deceiver. This will not go well with the other fakers of the Torah.

    I use strong language, so that maybe a Jew here or there knows it is
    serious, and that another round of punishment is coming. It should be 7
    times worse than the Nazis, because time is up. Look at the technology
    today, it is no longer the same kinds of wars, the same kinds of Tyranny,
    or even the same kinds of pogroms and anti-semitism. Tools make action
    more effective, also to the negative. The Empire is now not merely
    Germany and what they conquered, it is a global Empire (see for example
    the United Nations, a USA vassal control system). Remember: "Germany,
    home away from home", remember that. Then you thought you where safe
    in the USA. You are not. You are not safe anywhere, if you are a law
    breaking Jew - or at least this is what the Torah says. I merely compute
    your own Torah to you (you, Israel).

    Come back to the Torah, stop lying about it, also stop lying about it
    so that the few who want to "do and hear" are not confused by you, and
    who knows what will happen. For the gentiles, it is the same, but they
    are so much more confused. Israel has to give the example, but they do
    not. You have been warned, and shown a way out. If you do not listen,
    what will happen is on your own account. There is nothing more to say.

    Stop finding excuses not to do the Torah. Find reasons to come to the
    truth, Peace and Justice.

    *

    End quote reply (I don't see it back on youtube, they may have deleted
    it). There is nothing more to say. There is nothing more to say. The
    message has been delivered. I feel well and good about that. No Teshuva
    before the great suffering is likely going to come, exactly what I
    expected from both Jews and gentiles.

    (I apologize for moving this discussion here, but I want Israel to know
    how they where behaving before the next round of punishment, so that
    they know they are guilty and that everything had been done to save them
    by having them realize what they needed to or could do. Youtube/Google
    cannot be trusted for anything. Have a good life. Bye Bye.)
    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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