title: Who Will Crown King Messiah? The King of Edom
source: Rav Avraham Shira
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S-elju9ar8&t=272s

Someone wrote a reply under this, along the lines of "if you
'moshiach' are reading this, then I support you and you will succeed".
Exact text below in quotes.

Reply ...

Look dudes, you are talking about your private psychology & life. You
are talking about idols and fantasy. What is the root of the Torah
? It was given through none other than Moshe Rabbeinu, and there was
nobody else to do that job. What was so special about him ? Blah blah Rabbinical gobblygook ? Cabballistic stories about sparks and "klippah"
and Sefiroth ? Look at the story, and then my point is: look at yourselves
/ ourselves, okay ? What _actually happened._ The Torah is about what
really happens. Not about fantasy like the idolatry craziness. It's not
about "wars of the gods". Physical and real.

Moshe Rabbeinu grows up at the court. Is that special ? Yes, but many
people grew up at the court, did the Torah come from them ? No. Moshe
Rabbeinu probably had a comfortable life at the court, I imagine. Then
he saw two 'Israelites' being abused by guards and ... *he kills those
guards.* How many people do that. Very few do that. He had to run to
the desert, and I imagine he would be killed if found. It gets even more heroic, however.

He returns to his people. I doubt the Egyptian ruling class is eager
to see someone who murdered some of their guards, while they took care
of this person at their court, and now even wants to organize a slave
rebellion ? How many slave rebellions where there, anyway, in Earth
history. Where the Israelites slaves ? Apparently so, they where at
least gravely oppressed, as far as I understood the story. He returns
! Is this guy suicidal, is this guy nuts ?

This guy is literally the greatest hero who ever lived on Earth, okay
? Let's get that acknowledged right here. From what this guy did, with
the help of heaven I guess, we get this Torah, the prophets, and then
there is a thing in there about this 'moshiach'. This 'moshiach' would
do something kind of similar as to Moshe Rabbeinu.

What did Moshe Rabbeinu do ? Through him came a lot of laws, and that is
the main thing, and he led a people out of slavery - an entire people,
through again great dangers. Dudes, when are you going to get to it,
ok ? When are you going to act like Moshe Rabbeinu ? Laws for entire
Nations ? Did you write down _anything,_ and when I try to debate the
Torah with you, nothing ! Not only is there no laws for Nations, not
only is there no saving of slaves personally at what is pretty much a
suicide mission, even when the topic goes to the already existing Torah
and mistakes by the Rabbis are pointed out, you don't even care !

Did you kill some criminals who where abusing someone, or at least saved
the day for the victims ? in which case, wow! and can you please tell the
story right now ? I'll be the first to admit that I also never murdered
any criminals with my own hands.

See, you are focussed on your own inner world, your own fantasy and
psychology, and _perhaps_ you think you could be a decent Minister in
a Parliament because you care ? A prime-minister, a King ? Why you, and
who cares ? There have been many Kings, there have been many ministers,
some corrupt, some not too bad, some did their best, others filled
their own pockets, but this level of activity has yet to establish a
real peace. You guys don't know even the topic at hand: 1. reality,
2. freedom and a life for slaves who otherwise could be good people,
which means: 3. laws for an entire Nation, 4. actually doing it.

These days it seems people think this matters: Kabalahblabla "the klippah
the klippah!", Sefiroth and the sparks. Uhhh ???? What ?! Then it is
about _hell_ or it is about giving charity (at least that is good). Oh goodness, their Temple, non stop their Temple. Didn't Egypt have temples
? At least there is some morality sprinkled in, but what do we read in
the Torah and what is it all about ? First thing is that the land gets distributed to all as a right _forever._ First thing they do ! Massively important. Do you hear anyone about it these days ? Nope, nothing. You
talk about it, they ignore it. The Torah is about how can these people
live, without making each other into slaves. It is literally about
freeing slaves, it is about being honest in businest, not to murder,
it is about safety in the home and a safe home for children with their
own mother and their own father, all of them. It is about being good
to each other by providing financial help, easy loans, it is about not
working ourselves into slavery by having a rest day every 7 days; and
many more rest days over that. It is about not gossiping. It is about
a true and honest, fair and balanced civilization, and how to do that.

It's not about your personal depression as such, sorry. It is about
serious topics, which should be solved on a National level. Such as the
right to land, which has been ruined by the Rabbis, and that's potentially
part of why we see this disaster now in the Zionist State. No right to
land. They messed up other important aspects as well.

Anyway; I was reading these books of the Jesus system and Islam, and I
didn't like them much (although Islam has some good in it, and may be fit
for Arabs), and then I bought a Tanach, and I read these books from an
enemy perspective. I study the enemy, because they are going to want to
kill us all when we get anywhere near a peace, and they pull out their 'messiah' mania, so we need to be prepared against these people. I read
this Tanach and I discover how great it is, and I literally am reading
about my own life all of a sudden, because it matches. While it may be
true that all lives match to some extend, there is a lot that matches
here, and not much that doesn't. I won't go into the details, but there
is enough matching to say: _it could be._

This is the difference perhaps between you and me: I don't like it,
and I am here to _destroy_ this throne that you seem to want. There can
be no _throne_ over humanity. It is too big, and it is also a disgrace
of dictatorship - it is wrong. Anyway, suddenly I discover, the Tanach
is on my side, because if my program is going to succeed, they will
likely make statues of me like they did of Marx and Stalin, and that
is wrong. Marx thought he could end the idolatry by just outlawing,
but it didn't work. He himself became the god.

My goal it pretty simple: to spread power to all people in an effective
and functioning way, basically based on whatever works already, and
then tweaked kind of to optimize it a bit, and that's it. A King is
the opposite of that. However the enemy is the opposite, they want to centralize all control, and they finally did it. The position 'secratary general' at the UN is a prototype for what will likely become the World Dictator, the King over the entire world. You think that is fantasy
? If you do, it is because you don't think about these topics. The
U.N. is the American global Empire, and it is already a Government and
a State. This kind of thing tends to end with one head at the top, one
way or the other even. Anyway, I could go on like this for another page
or 10, and maybe that is also the point. That is the topic: Government,
people, laws, principles and methods of economics, life in general.

But see, I though okay this guy want to talk to me, so let's have a
little fun here and reply. Nothing comes out of that, see ? I point out
the problems in the Torah ? Nobody even cares ! Humanity is incredibly
stupid, I'm sorry to say, and of course I'm part of that. I unfortunately cannot just download what I think into your brains directly, you must
want to learn about some of these important topics on your own, such as
the right to land. People talk about this "hiding" of 'moshiach'. This is nonsense, because the Torah is there, in your hand ! You don't need any 'moshiach' you just need to stop lying about it !

Then when once in a while you drop a clue, nobody also investigates
anything. They merely shoot from random and their emotions, typically
rejection of course - to which I totally agree ! I hate this idolatry,
so I hate this too, this 'moshiach' garbage, and then these lying Rabbis everywhere, unbelievable. Why not then argue the case secularly, isn't
that superior ? Of course it is, what do you think I have been doing and continue to do ? It is not about this one person, goodness sakes. It is
about Tyranny, war, stupidity, injustice in all the streets, stupidity
ruling the Nation(s).

Anyway, my goal is to end all this madness once and for all, break the
throne you all want to put this 'moshiach' on, and then relax and play a
game of Go or two (Baduk). I am getting a bit better at it, it's fun. Have
a great day ;-).

P.S. Prepare your houses for hard times. They are going to have World
War 3, although by now probably most people realize it

*

End reply. Continuing on Usenet.

So you see that this is the program, at least the one I am proposing:
basically the destruction of all craziness, the end of the idolatry I
guess. No throne over the world. Not your 'moshiach' sitting on a throne
over the whole world.

This throne that you want: shattered on the ground, ripped to shreds,
burned and already forgotten (so to say). No throne over the world.

Ha ha ha - Gotcha ;-).

It's too big, is that really the essential answer. That is a big part of
it, but the other is that a throne is a dictatorship, and that is a
disgrace. It's monkey behavior. We are humans, we should be able to talk
and find a solution together, and then do it because we care. That is
'the ultimate', meaning that it may not yet be possible to reach that at
some point (like perhaps, today), but it is the goal.

So many idolators want a throne over the whole world, and their idol on
it, forever. You have that now already, and you have that on a smaller
scale in all kinds of dictatorial Nations. To a degree it doesn't matter
if the Tyrannical Empire is 10 million persons big, or 10 Billion. You
already have lived that dictatorship, even if it usually wasn't global.
It becoming global, is only a lot worse, because of the absolutism
inherent in it. There are no other cultures anymore, and beyond the
Earth there is not a lot of human culture going on, or nothing at all.

We are right now in this One Throne over the world condition, and the
person sitting on it is essentially the Secretary General of the UN.
Happy now ? Is it working out for you ? No, it is not working out at
all.

You could hence say, that my goal is to destroy that throne, the chair
this UN 'secretary general' is sitting on. It is more or less, a sort of
final throne where all the wars and evil on the Earth have led to (at
this point), and in some way it could be argued that it is an end point, because when before was there ever a State, a Government, on this level
on the Earth ? The entire world is more or less encompassed by it, even
though it hasn't reached true dictatorial or tyrannical powers (yet).
It exists as an entity, and it is intrenched. It's power can now grow in
depth, and become worse and worse.

I already see signs of this United Nations power in the country where
I ride my bicycle. It already reached that level. They claim power over
this or that part of our natural lands (typically). Then there is the
European Union flag all over as well, which is another impossible
Empire, a level of control just one step below the United Nations. So
you see that not only do they have the United Nations which is already
huge, they also have the middle level management systems in place, such
as the USA, the E.U., China, India, other huge and crazy large places.
It's all one system already.

A big war, another roll over of the generations and the necessary
propaganda, and they could have so much more control than they have now
that it really starts to feel that these global criminal groups are the Government you are ultimately dealing with.

See, it's not like merely a concept that needs to be overturned. It is a reality already. It's not merely and only a fantastical thing in the
minds of idolators, this 'throne of the world'. In the olden days of
some centuries past, this throne was for example Vatican city and the
pope, the Chinese Emperor in China, and so on. It was smaller, but the
same: too big, and dictatorial if not Tyrannical.

This is what needs to be overturned, and the way to do it is: to listen
to each other, be capable and willing to have decent conversations with
each other, solve problems reasonable, get to it.

The whole thing is basically just totally reasonable, and if you think
'where is the catch' well, there kind of isn't a catch. That is just
what it is essentially: an attempt to be reasonable. That's all. It's
kind of simple in that way. In that void you feel left behind perhaps,
in that anti-climax, I hope you will find yourself.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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title: Who Will Crown King Messiah? The King of Edom
source: Rav Avraham Shira
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S-elju9ar8&t=272s

Someone wrote a reply under this, along the lines of "if you
'moshiach' are reading this, then I support you and you will succeed".
Exact text below in quotes.

Someone suggested they are 'moshiach' and they are in contact with
Hashem or something like that.

Reply ...

@mashiachEvanbenDavid Ah ok. This is not a program, but your personal
feelings about what you think is 'god' or something. You want the ... you wrote: _"I hope to get the attitude of servitude from the ones that claim
to know God."_ Aha ok, so you want good people to serve you ? That will
fix things in the world you think ? You should be regarded a ... you
wrote: _"I am a big brother."_ which says the same.

I asked you about your program, you did not give a program, there is no
plan of action or anything. You wrote to someone that you want unity of
the family. Ok fine (who doesn't). How will you accomplish this lofty
goal ? You think that giving the order will make it happen, with you as
the "big brother" (your words) ?

Just so you know, you do _not_ get my servitude, sorry. I'm against that
sort of thing, it's primitive in my opinion. I think people should talk together and decide on common issues, or start learning how to do it. Away
with dictatorship, and more democracy please - the more the better. We see
also in real life, that the more there is democracy, the less the people suffer. When autocracy, dictatorship, power centralization in general
increase, then the suffering increases. When Republics fall, the suffering increases. When Dictators take over, suffering increases. Unfortunately,
things are not always as simple as they may seem. Nazi coups may be
rebranded "democracy" (USA is great with that, see Ukraine), and so on,
and so on.

We also see flavors of this in the Torah, although not that much I
shall admit. I think the problem with Israel is that they are an unruly
people, who are not well behaved enough to have a real democracy (I
mean a _serious_ democracy, more serious than the Roman Rebublic, who incidentally had initially a friendship bond with the Maccabean Dynasty,
if I am not mistaken; something to think about I guess). Shamuel also
rejected the Kingship, and HKB'H said that by choosing a King they
rejected him as their King (which I think is correct, but hey it's
easy ... the Torah is so often correct I start to think it is *always* correct). Notably, there are a lot of restraints on the Kings of
Israel. They are not as Sovereign as some dictators have been. So long
as there where real prophets, they could at least be overthrown by them,
but Israel just went down and down so much, it all became one big pile
of nonsense.

Power spreading to all is part of the Torah though, in my opinion at
least. Right to land (a big one). Freeing of the slaves. A Government
which has restrictions on its power, due to the Torah being an
unchangeable law. Forced loan making by the rich. Forced rest days for everyone. The Rabbis have ruined a lot of this already, and hence the
exile started ...

Dude you know, in the end, all this is extremely serious. It's not about someone their personal house gods and their private emotions (as I already claimed before). It is about laws for Nations, how messed up they have
become, and so ond and so on. What is the law, is the question. The Torah
is law ? Fine, but it isn't, because it was overthrown partially by the
corrupt Rabbis, who are criminals under the Torah now. This is how bad
it is already. When the next round of punishment happens, that will be
7 times worse than the Nazis.

DO YOU READ ME ? 10+ Million Jews are about to die. UNtold numbers of
gentiles will die. Can someone please start to take things seriously
before these fools these Rabbinical fools destroy all of Israel and
themselves with it. oy oy oy Israel ... where is your brain. If all
you did was stop your lies about the Torah and absolutely nothing else,
perhaps that will be enough to save yourselves and get out of exile. Throw
this whole 'moshiach' garbage on the trash heap, but stop lying about the
Torah from now on. Yes, you are lying, and you know you are lying. You
don't ? You should have known by now. Your lies are set to destroy you,
95% or more may be dead within 10-20 years, literally dead, massacred
in various ways by the crazy gentiles.

You heard about a bank failure yet ? It's coming. Remember the Weimar
Republic ? Find your brain and use it. Harden your position, it's
coming. USA, Zionist State, anywhere, nowhere is safe. Stop lying about
the Torah, harden your position, help your brother Jew any way you
possibly can, keep the whole Shabbos to the night until you sleep as
well as you can, be of a nice voice to your people, be nice and humble
and helpful and also of course ... what's the word ... loyal to your
marriage to the maximum you can. Modesty is the word. Listen to your
brother and sister Jew carefully so you understand them and can help
them. I think if you did all this, even if you die, hopefully you will be
found to be a good person worthy of life. I get it that you are scared
of a full scale Revolution or to overthrow your lying Rabbis (which you
pretend are not lying because your brain is lost apparently), but there
are lesser things you could be doing anyway, one way or the other.

If you are in USA though ... the autists said: RUN, run for your lives
! It's very similar to Germany, the assimilation. IT seems, heaven
will not have it. It will be entirely wiped out, it seems (what I can
peace together, and the logic of it). You are Jews you must be Jews,
not gentiles, you must give the example. That is apparently your job,
then do it, and live. Please it's coming. It already started now.

End reply.

Youtube / Google deleted this it seems, so I post it here. I know this
topic is kind of crazy. I apologize for that. Can I help it that this
thing exists in the world, and is at the forefront of the minds of
perhaps 2 Billion people, and the people where we live (3 complete
religions with hundreds of millions of followers) ?

I wish we could just have a reasoned debate about how to organize
elections, and how to deal with land ownership correctly, and then get
to it and do it. But no ... even the labor union is investing their time
in the mad idea of Basic Income. It's the population their own fault
though. They don't even want it. They don't even want to be free.
Unfortunately for them, the consequence is going to be a level of
slavery they are not going to be happy about, eventually at least.
Then you have more rebellions and civil wars and Revolutions ...

Unless the ruling class can explode your brain with one push of a
button, or set the robots on you. You think that's a crazy idea ? The
people with all the money *are* crazy. They are crazy, criminal, and
have all the money in the world to finance their hobby. Which is;
enslaving you, enslaving the world, and then the Cosmos (lol)

Anyway (what a great day of ranting this is, eh ?), just wanted to add
this personal remark ...

Continuing above mentioned comment debate ... (first referring to
this above quoted reply which youtube has deleted - I keep a copy of
everything here).

My reply here seems to have been deleted, or at least I don't see it. I
often re-post on Usenet on soc.culture.jewish to get around the evil
of the USA. Since I went full nutcase here already (but I have to if it
is true, I'm forced into it because of what will likely later happen),
I might as well continue with what I was thinking about. The question
is non-stop asked "when will 'moshiach' come", and this can be taken
literally: when will 'that person' go up to Yerushalayim, the city itself, physically. Although I already said I'm not your King and I'm against
monarchy even, and you would bring out someone else to do that for you
under my program, if it concerns my person I have already decided to not convert to be a Jewish person, because 1. liars cannot convert anyone
to the Torah (and the Rabbis are liars), which was always my original
reason, but now I have decided that I will never convert to being Jewish
or part of the Nation of Israel, because I do not want to be part of a
people who have shown such a hard neck to the obvious truth.

I know, it is nutcasery, who the flip cares, right ? Spot on. Even so,
if it ends up being all correct what I write, then it may matter more to
you in the end, than to me. So this you already achieved Israel, and now
I am also concidering never to visit your country. That would be the next
step, but I am not 100% sure yet, but I'm going to that direction slowly
but surely. This is because your continual lying about the Torah. This
does not mean I'm against Israel or will ever be. Israel is still the
best Nation in the world, with the most caring and smart people, and
pretty much the only hope for mankind. If you don't give the example,
probably nobody will. So there is your answer then: if it concerns this particular nutcase, the answer to 'when will moshiach come' would be:
probably never, thanks to your lying about the Torah and your rebellion
against the truth. Never is the answer. Also if it concerns the King you
may want to put in under proposed program, that person may already be
there and even born there. He is already there, is the other answer. Have
a good day, nutcase here out ;-).

End reply.

Cya, until never I guess. You are waiting on nothing, you are waiting on yourself and your will to be good. Literally, you are waiting on
yourself to do something serious for the Torah, the truth, the peace,
Justice. I have no intention whatsoever to talk or visit a people who
have lied about the Torah for so long, and who kept going with it point
blank against all the arguments, and usually just ignoring them of
course (a potent weapon in the eyes of the mindless).

P.S. (Previous I said the Jewish people don't have a plan, but they sort
of do have a plan: 1. waiting for 'moshiach' whom they think will be a
liar about the Torah (Hillel, Rambam) like them and lead them with the
IDF, or a new rebellion against the Zionist State (depending on what side
you are on), to some sort of military victory against some sort of
attacks, and then they will just build a building on the mount in
Yerushalayim, and whatever society they can cobble together at that
point will be it and they will call it 'the Redemption' no matter how
wretched it might be, or how much fraud and bad behavior it might still contain. Their 'moshiach' will be a liar like Hillel and Rambam (Rambam
Shemita 10:8, prozbul, heter iska, Shabbos breaking with candle lighting fakery, Lamp of Helena Sun idolatry, tying boxes to your head), because
they clearly reject the 'rebuking' of these lies, and so they must be
united with them. If they 'want moshiach' and reject the rebuke of their
lies, still continue to 'want moshiach' (so they claim), then that means
they think this 'moshiach' is united with the lies of Hillel and Rambam.

This is basically their plan: military victory through the IDF, or
miraculously being saved somehow. Magically they will also do Teshuvah
at some point, some day, but it is just never this day, never *today*.
It's always the next day. In reality, the Zionist State is small, its neighboring enemy Empires have an enormous amount of people (Egypt,
Turkey, Iran, each about 80 Million if I recall ?), the Zionist State
has not even 10 Million Jewish people in total ? The practical life line
for the Zionist State is the Empire USA, who is now under the control of
a Revolutionary Fascist. Hence, they are hoping on a miracle.

Hoping on a miracle from the God who has a death penalty for breaking
the Shabbos, which they are breaking by fake law (a few still keep it
to the end though, so I was told; perhaps they will receive a miracle in
the end, I hope so for them), who ordered them to nullify the loans
in the 7th year which they broke by fake law, who told them to honor the Jubilee and the right to land for all which they also broke by fake law interpretation (Rambam Shemita 10:8) and which they clearly are not doing
in the Zionist State where they now have control over large amounts of land. The Jubilee should already have happened in the Zionist State. Did they
do it yet ? I never heard a thing about it.

There are a lot more laws they break, but I'll focus on the economy.
From this God, who already has a death penalty over the Shabbos breaking
let alone making phony laws which breaks *all* Shabbos for everyone who
listens to that (which is pretty much all of them now ?), from this God
they expect a miracle to survive. They are under a death sentence from
this God and His laws, yet they expect a military miracle to survive as
a Nation and Sovereignty. That's the plan.

Their plan is a miracle.

Will it come ? Maybe, since they are still Israel, the love of heaven,
the hope for humanity. I hope they will all live, happy ever after, and
want to see the truth; speedily in our days ...


(P.P.S. I wonder if they will crash the banks before Trump takes over officially, so that he gets shielded from the political consequences ?
I don't know, it seems possible. If they crash the banks later, they
will have to explain how it wasn't the Dictator's fault, right ? If they
can succeed with that, perhaps they will do it later, who knows.

Well told you so, Trump would win. You see how the Democrats don't even
fight it ? At least not to my knowlebge. They wanted Trump as well. It's
all one big criminal clique. Can you afford a watch like the one Harris
has, supposedly the voice of the common people, the "workers" ? It's all
a show. They gave it to Trump: Biden the fall guy the zombie, and then a
woman who was probably also never going to be elected because that just
never happened before. They all want Trump, because he is fit to be the
madman who bloodies his hands when the economy goes wrong thanks to the
looting of the criminal ruling class; bloody domestically and bloody internationally ... That is at least how it looks. Harden your position.)


P.P.P.S. (What a great day of ranting indeed ! ;-) lol

This MBD reminds me, that in a Jewish traditional naming convention my
personal name would be: Jos ben Douwe, with Douwe ben Jo being the
father. Funny. Birthday: Nissan 22. Sorry if you don't like the truth
and can't cope with it. That's your problem, or your prophets problem,
not my problem. 14 April 1974 = 22 Nissan 5734, or 5954 in 'Egypt 430
years' year count, which is also Easter in both western & eastern
Yoshke the Bastard idolatry churches (those dates jump around). This is
at least what I could piece together.

Don't like it ? Excellent, maybe you are not an idolator then ! You
don't care about this silly stuff. Awesome. Let's talk about the economy ? Finally a real person. Let's do something serious, about this mess on
Earth. The idolators, maybe we can influence them later using all this
crazy stuff, and at least get them out of the way to a degree.

Aww you don't like it that I don't talk in mystical voice, wear weird
clothes and get the support from your power structure, so that you can
safely worship me as your King ? You wanted so badly to worship someone,
your super hero. Awww well, I have an idea for you. You go look up a toy
store nearby, and buy a spider man suit. Wear it and play spiderman and
super man with your friends ! It's so much fun !!! You can also buy
little bat man and super man statues for in the house, and then when you
have problems you just hope super man will come help you. It happens in
the movies ! Why not in real life, right ? Pray hard and keep the hope
alive.

(That's it for today I think ... sorry about this.)
--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)