link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kITZOnUWA-Y
title: Yemot Hamashiach (16) - Does Mashiach Know he is Mashiach? -
Rav Shlomo Katz
source: Shlomo Katz

Reply ...

You betrayed the Torah a long time ago, with your overthrow of the
Jubilee, your Rambam Shemita 10:8, your Hillel the elder with his prozbul,
your phony Shabbos which you cut in half by pretending the day ends in
the early evening, and then you tie boxes to your head. There is nothing
more to say. The next round of punishment will be 7 times worse. Last
time was the Nazis. If you still go on with Rabbinical Judaism (which
opposes the Torah) after the next round of punishment, then you will
not survive as something that can be called a Nation anymore. I'm not
saying that, the Torah is saying that (punishment section). So the
answer to the posed questions is: you are asleep, and regarding the
'moshiach': it doesn't matter what the answer to that question is (in
my opinion). Since you are asleep (refusing to see the obvious, flat out
going on with your betrayal, just like Roman idolators and their absurd beliefs), it doesn't matter if moshiach is awake or not anymore.

This refusal to see the obvious is probably rooted in several vices,
among which may be: pride, money, cowardice, hard neck (obstinacy for the
sake of obstinacy), and for some it is likely even an life of organized
crime (such as for the Rothshild crime family, and others). Basically,
you don't care. It doesn't concern you. Someone else will figure it
out. You're doing your job, you think. Right ? This is how the Rabbis
behave, and they will become guilty of creating the second holocaust
because of it. After that, they probably still will have to be overthrown, because it doesn't look like anything will ever stop them from their
opposition to Moshe Rabbeinu and the great rebellion against the Torah
which they have organized and are keeping alive.

There is no way you can be Redeemed under Rabbinical law. It just doesn't
work. Your phony economy doesn't work, no matter how good you do, you are
not an example to the Nations this way, with your phony laws regarding
land and money. You Israel don't even have a system of Government
which can be taken serious, but you saved yourself by listening to your prophets. You are not like the Swiss or some Native Indians in America,
who managed to listen to each other. You don't listen to each other,
you just yell through each other and then you part ways. The only
time you agree is when you read your words in the Minyan, because you
don't put your own opinions into it for once. So this is your score:
you don't have an economy because Rabbinical Judaism has ruined it,
you don't have a Government system worth mentioning or knowing about,
because you stopped listening to your prophets. No Government system
worth having (Kingship is not worthwhile, even the Torah says that),
no economy either thanks to the Rabbis. What does Israel still have to
offer then ? Family values ? It is not enough.

You cannot be Redeemed, but you can be shocked to the core by the second holocaust, and given another chance afterwards to rethink all your long
lasting betrayals. That's it, there is nothing more to say. It is shocking
to see how obstinate Israel is, how dishonest the Rabbis are. You are such
a dishonest people, I cannot even believe I write this to an adult and
they just flat out are going to ignore it and not even look up the lies of Rambam and Hillel, or if they do they will just stick to these lies. It
is absolutely ... incomprehensible and shameful. These are adults, they
have children, and they dare behave this way, they dare to behave like
a 3 year old child with the Torah and the future of their people and
even humanity at large. How dare you create this mess, Rabbis of Israel,
how dare you play with the lives of your people and your own life.

I am wrong, you are going to be the first Rabbi who is honest about
the torah ? Excellent, I'm sorry and you may have just started the
Redemption. The way I see it though, is that all these Jewish people and including a large majority of the most Orthodox (who are not Orthodox,
they are reformers), who all think so strongly that there will be
'moshiach' and 'Redemption' for them soon ... it isn't even that there
won't be a Redemption, but they won't even survive. This is also thanks
to the Rabbis and also these Rebbes of yours, who should have known
better and stopped the lying already thousands of years ago. Nobody
is so silly that they don't comprehend the prozbul is a lie, or how
Rambam reads the Torah about Jubilee isn't a lie. Everyone knows these
are lies. You have to be an official nutcase IQ 85 to not understand
it. Therefore I don't call it mistakes, these are not mistakes anymore,
this is fraud and lying what Hillel and Rambam are doing. The shame
which is attached to these lies is drenched in the blood of thousands
and thousands of people, and soon it may even become Billions of people.

What you are waiting for is not 'moshiach' but your own honesty. You
say "the world needs Redemption", but that isn't necessarily true. The
people needs to start being honest and care, and then they would Redeem themselves. If they do _not_ want to do that (and they do not, including
the Rabbis), then the world doesn't need Redemption, because it _cannot be Redeemed_ it is a technical impossibility (unless you change the laws of
nature as well, and humans are to be pets). Then the world doesn't need Redemption, the world needs *destruction.* It needs to be destroyed,
to prevent things to happen which are even worse. Destruction can be
back to the Stone age, or even human extinction. You have let it come
to this. Sorry about being angry, it is upsetting how long all this has
to last and that a people like the Jewish people are this obstinate and fraudulent and deceptive and dismissive of the obvious. It is hard to
deal with it, that this people have become such a fraud and such a lie,
and on such childishly easy topics. They threw it all away, for nothing.

* End reply.

21:59 Video stopped there somehow, after reloading to see if the comment appeared. The comment was deleted immediately, therefore likely by the
Google censorship system. It shows a picture of the Rabbi smiling and
giving a thumbs up, which was rather funny to see. lol

By the way, the Rabbi goes on at length about how great 'moshiach' is
supposed to be. The way I see it: Adam & Eve became criminals, they
decided to loot from the tree. Then they where ashamed, so the Creator
didn't destroy them, but hoped they would use that shame to return to
being real people again, normal people who can live together with a
minimum of normal behavior. If you see someone having a nice watch, do
you beat them to the ground and take that watch ? Hopefully not, and
that's not a big achievement. This is I think the issue with humanity:
they sank so low and into such bad behavior, that simply being a normal
average person with a minimum of respect for what is not theirs, already
puts you above Adam & Eve, and that's not a great accomplishment but an absolute minimum to even have any sort of hope that you can exist as a
human being on Earth.

When we see how terrible the Rabbis are acting with the Torah, to act
normal with the Torah isn't great and awesome, it is just normal and
fair, anyone can do it. From the position of hardened crime, someone who
wants to do some normal work may be perceived as some kind of super
human moral hero whom they can never match up to, but that isn't because
such a person is really so great compared to what humans should be and
can be, it is more caused by how absurd and childish the behavior of
these criminals have become over time. They then substitute that a
person who doesn't want to steal (following Hillel and Rambam is being
part of the great thieving on Earth, and worse even) is very great, but
it could be more accurate to say that they are very bad, and the person
who doesn't want to steal is just average and normal. Naturally though,
they don't want to really say or believe that about themselves, how bad
they are, because that would imply they could do better and should. It
would be a "call to action", and they don't want that. So they exalt
this supposed 'moshiach', so they can remain apathetic and put the onus
on 'moshiach' to figure it out, and this then rolls over into using the mechanism for idolatry and apathy in the people in general, so they can
keep their positions and nothing wlil change for the better. The
idolatry leads to the mindlessness, and the mindless are easy to
control.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kITZOnUWA-Y
title: Yemot Hamashiach (16) - Does Mashiach Know he is Mashiach? -
Rav Shlomo Katz
source: Shlomo Katz

Reply ...

Rabbinical Judaism is wrong. There won't be a Redemption possible until
you stop following Hillel and Rambam, for obvious reasons. There are two reasons for it basically: one is the dishonesty as a character quality
which makes Redemption impossible, and the other is the consequences of
the phony laws you made up, which will also ruin any Redemption under
those phony laws. You have destroyed yourselves, and you keep yourself
into sleep, if you want to put it that way. Whether moshiach is sleeping
or not, is irrelevant and not your problem, is it. Are you trying to
put blame on moshiach, for your own betrayals of the Torah, and how you
have kept the exile going ? It looks that way, doesn't it. Why are you suggesting 'moshiach' is sleeping, why do you put this idea out, following
the Rambam with his phony inventions suggesting 'moshiach' is tarrying
(there is no source for that, it's a lie, the Tanach says the opposite).

* End reply.

This one does not (yet) seem to be deleted by Google.

I tried watching 10 minutes of the video, but it is hard no concentrate
on videos from people who you know are this dishonest and disingeneous
about essential topics, such as "The Rabbis of Israel". What a lost
people. I think more and more about staying a long way away from them,
and to make true on this idea that I will ignore them for as long as
they have ignored me calling them out on their lies, which was since
2008. This would mean if they start asking me to explain it to them
again or whatever, that I would say something like: excellent idea,
first I will let you wait for as long as you made me wait.

How long is that going to be ... 2008 minus 2025 is 17 years at this
point. You can contact me again in 17 years, bye. I'll show them how sad
and what kind of a looser behavior they have with their hard neck. Not
that they may want to ask me anything of course, but let's say that they
do want to do that for some reason. I'll just let them take their own
obstinacy in the face. Measure for measure as they call it. Thank
goodness sakes I'm not Jewish or anywhere near Eretz Yisroel. It would
be so painful to be even more confronted with these lying Rabbis and
their mindless following. I hope I will never have to go to their land,
but it is good for the world if they finally stop lying and give the
example. I'll aplaud them for it from afar, and keep my distance from
this lying mess that they are.

Unfortunately, it doesn't cut it if they get hammered like never before,
and a mere half million survive, because if that's the pressure you need
to stop being liars, then how serious can you be taken even after that ?
Then again, I'm also human and also can have the same problem, which is
why I knew or thought I had to suffer to keep the focus. This way also, everything is kind of perfect, because they will have to do everything themselves and I won't even give them any help whatsoever, if they
decide they should do the program in the signature. That way, the danger
of idolatry is also reduced, and if they fail, well deserved. It is well deserved that this mess that they are fails. They caused it for
themselves, and can suffer the fitting consequences.

Not that the other Nations are any better, on the contrary, that's still
10 times more hopeless than Israel even in its current state. They will
always be these people who have been given the Torah, and all these
bizarre lies of the western idolators about it are just that, more lies.
It's the people with the big noses (I guess) and their little hats, and
they have Synagogues and Shulls all over the western world. It is the
Jewish people, in the conventional sense. None other. Not Africans, not Europeans either, not weird cults either. Despite everything, it is
those people, with their Rabbis and their Tanach and also with their
Rambam and Hillel which is their betrayal of Moshe Rabbeinu and the
Creator - except the Karaim, who may be the best of them, but quite
small (most live in Egypt). Those are also Jewish. The rest is not
Jewish, and then there are many who are mixed, and there are also Jewish
people who switched to the western idol, which is really sad for them I
guess, and it shows how mindless and disinterested in reality they can get. They spoke Yiddish, and Hebrew nowadays again, and have been accused by
some of being Khazars or whatever, which I do not believe is true.

These people, despite evertyhing, are supposed to make the Redemption
happen, either freely or forced by heaven. It's them and them alone.
They will do it, or ... I guess, they will do it. The word is, they do
not have a choice (say the autists), or to put it differently: those who already chose the good at Sinaii, will not be allowed to rescind on
their choice, also for their own benefit. They will not be allowed to
ruin themselves in the end, even if they currently seem to want to do
just that - well, because that's what they are doing. The word is also,
that they will suffer very badly, for their own benefit in the end.
Apparently also, many of them will not make it, and they will be lost.

This is the scheme of things. I do not believe whatsoever that this will
ever change. It will not be the Mulems doing it, and it will also not be
the western idolators or others doing it; that is to say, to rebuild a
Nation of Justice around Yerushalayim, with a truth and a culture which
is the Torah or exceedingly close to the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu (who
... is such a great hero ... there is no words for that).

I thought I make it very explicit what I think about this, because we
have seen the craziness that has happened in the past and all the crazy
claims that happen. Perhaps I should also add, that while I make up
these angry ideas of not even talking back, when I saw the Rabbi in the
video I just thought, why don't you come over for a cup of tea and we
can discuss some Torah face to face if you like. Like friends I mean. lol
It's hard to not be upset, but it is also hard to stay upset when there
is a chance and a hope.

Oy oy oy Israel ... oy oy oy oy oy ... what an obstinacy. Have you
looked into the mirror lately. On and on you g owith these obvious and
blatant lies, and you do it without seemingly a shred of shame. No
worse, you are proud of it. I cannot believe I am seeing adults, people
who clearly are older than 10 or 15, and they just keep peddling their
Rambam and Hillel with a straight face. I cannot believe it, what a
planet of insanity, what a species of mindlessness this humanity is.
I'm not even half smart, and I can see it completely clearly, and so can
you. You can see this perfectly fine. You don't have to lie about it,
because it is just that obvious. You don't *want* to have a basic
honesty. You do not want to be at the most simple level an honest
person. That is the only conclusion I can draw, and that is very bad for
you if that is true (which it seems to be true), so that if you think
you can survive into the Redemption and that heaven will be okay with
you being so dishonest, that's just redicilous if you think this can be accepted. You're just animals at that point, mindless and without any capability to form understanding on even the simple things in life. Then
you think that heaven is going to give you the power of life on Earth,
where humanity is a high technological species and the only one. You are
insane if you can think that, lost. A basic honesty you are against, you support criminal activity and you want to be a thieve and a liar and
live in a Nation who is into that kind of a life, and then you think
that the God of the Torah - whom you know hates thieves - will give you
eternal life. You are insane at that point, lost and insane and
mindless.

This leads me to think that you are of the same bend as the western
idolators. It's a betting game for you. You live however you think is
right without putting much or any thought to it, and when it breaks the
Torah you just think: maybe it's fine and we will win anyway, let's see
where it ends up first. You already saw where it ends up: in the exile,
and all the pogroms, and the Nazi holocaust, but still you keep pushing
it; let's see where the mess that we wanted to be will end up, will be
be pushed even harder or will we suddenly be accepted. Will be be pushed
into extinction or will our crimes become accepted as good soon. Maybe
our crimes will be accepted as good, and then we would have done
Teshuvah for no reason, what a bore ! Then let's rage on to the end and
see if we end up dead or alive, and then we wlil decide if the ruth is worthwhile.

You see where this will end up ? You don't make any decisions anymore
when you are dead, or at least not as a human being on Earth. Once youe
are wiped out or cast out as a traitor and a liar and a thieve and a
mindless fool who cannot be relied upon, once that is thoroughly proven
and you get the message that you will be out forever, only *then* you
will think of changing into basic simple honesty ? Isn't that richly too
late ? I guess I'm too simple for all these mindless designs which you
are into, Israel, which you probably aren't even thinking about and I am
merely overthinking it. I try to see reasons, where there are no
reasons.

There is just this with Israel: the great void of mindlessness. The
great void of obstinacy and a hard neck. Point. Nothing to it. No logic,
no goal, no design. Just this: the void of an empty mind, the mind of a
fool. You want to be dishonest ? Not even that. You want to be honest
but you fail ? Not even that. Just this: nothing. Mindlessness. No
decision to one end, and no decision to the other either, because the
question didn't even occur to you, that's how mindless and lost you are
as a people.

How can you have a 'Rebbe' and he doesn't fight tooth and nail against
Hillel and Rambam, how can you ?! The lies of Hillel and Rambam are
blatant and obvious.

What a lost people, what a dishonesty, what an obstinacy, and what a
bore really (just like me, I'm also turning into an old bore and an old
sore, going over the same over and over forever). I seriously start
thinking that even if Israel turned to the truth right today, it is too
late for it to be accepted anymore. Their crimes and obstinacy are too
great and will have to have their consequences. They can do Teshuvah if
they want, under conditions of being destroyed. They let it come to
this. I told them well in advance, many years ago, what they where lying
about (as if they didn't know), but they ignored it. You let it come to
this Israel.

But ... everything is fine, the pizza is coming out of the oven just
fine ? Even common people start to understand things are going wrong
now, and how about you ? What is supposed to be the medicine against
this basic dishonesty of Israel as a people ? I can only see an answer
in the form of suffering. Even for many, it might make them even worse,
but for others, perhaps it will help them get better. We shall see ...

You blocked the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, you blocked your own Redemption
for some 84 generations now. Today we face high technology, which is a
great power which needs to be handled wisely. Who can handle this power,
and forever because it will only become more powerful over time ? You
Israel, you can handle it ? (That's a rethorical question, obviously you cannot. No Nation can handle it right now, and if a few individuals can
then that is not good enough.)

The consequences for humanity are baked in that reality, and they imply
death or worse.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kITZOnUWA-Y
title: Yemot Hamashiach (16) - Does Mashiach Know he is Mashiach? -
Rav Shlomo Katz
source: Shlomo Katz

Someone replied to my recent comment here, writing some things which I
did not understand. Something about the 5th layers of the Torah ? I do
not know what that should mean.

Reply ...

Hello. Thanks to your reply. I have to say though, it doesn't make sense
to me what you are writing, sorry.

Perhaps I should have made it more clear what I meant when writing that
Rambam and Hillel are obviously wrong. I am referring to the following technicalities of law, if you will: the overthrow of the Torah by
Israel 21+ centuries ago, which is a horrible and (near) irredeemable corruption of Rabbinical Judaism, written down in the book Shemita
10:8. It writes there that all of Israel needs to be in the land, but
this is obviously not what the Torah writes there in the quote Rambam is citing. The Torah says that the Jubilee will have to be proclaimed to
all the inhabitants of the land. Israel does not set law by precedent,
although it may _interpret_ law by precedent I guess to a degree (but by
the then living high priest, so even that is by the living people). This
is also in the Torah, IIRC.

To say that the Jubilee is not needed is absurd and criminal. Apparently
they are not thinking about anything anymore, because it is completely
obvious to see that what they are doing is unacceptable. One moment the
land is lend out to the next 50th year, and so an amount of land is in
that state. Then some shenanigans happen with some tribes leaving the
one Sovereignty, all the way somewhere else from where you are living,
and suddenly some rich criminal won't give you back your land in the next
50th year ? Who are those rich criminals ? I suspect, they are the ones
who gave the money to what eventually became the Rabbis, to put these fraudulent concepts out as laws and verdicts in court, and this became Rabbinical Judaism as it exists now.

To pretend the Torah requires everyone to be in the land, is not an _interpretation_ of a law in the Torah anymore. There is no possible
way this is a reading of the Torah. This is crime and this is fraud,
and also why they where exiled. This is what I refer to with the two
problems, the dishonesty to pretend that this is in any way reasonable
(Rambam Shemita 10:8), and then also the actual concequences of the phony
laws they made up, which implies people do no longer have their right to
land honored. This means they will be landless or more and more landless,
and the few criminals will be more and more rich. This will end in a
Tyranny such as in ancient Egypt and many other places in the world.

Other horrible treasons of the Torah include the _prozbul_ which was made
up by Hillel the Elder. It is described in the Shulchan Aruch. This is
again not interpretation of the Torah or precedents refining law in any
way whatsoever. This is burning down the Torah and declaring yourselves Sovereign over it. The prozbul is a particularly laughable device of
phony law, since it pretends a loan is the same as a court verdict,
while the courts have been set up to make sure this kind of loan does
never happen. The loans are supposed to be nullified in the 7th year
for the poor. Again you see how the rich ruined the whole structure
of the Torah economy. This is the Plutocracy which has ruined Israel,
and indirectly is ruining the world, because Israel failed to give the
example, and now we are here: landlessness is the norm, and the debts
are choking the world to death (you will soon blow that up into global
nuclear war, believe it or not, but it is another debt crisis, just like
with World War 2). State debt, an absurd and criminal device currently conducted by all Governments.

The world is a mad house. I suggest you buy some rice and get ready
for anything.

'Moshiach' is a person, this is how I understand it at least. Moshe
Rabbeinu was also a person, and this is how things go. Marx was a person,
even if you don't agree with him (I do not agree with him). Montesque
was a person (I do agree with his concept of separation), and so on,
and so forth. If laws are ideas and principles, then you may just need
one person to do that job. If it is true and good, then that is all you
need really. Given the simplicity of these issues, anyone can do it, and
it is an incomprehensible shame upon modern man and all these supposed
adults running around in the world, that they cannot figure out these
simple problems for themselves already, and live the truth. For this,
many of them will soon lay dead on the ground, in the coming wars and
the consequences thereof, and all the misery and death which has already happened because of these kinds of issues, particularly economic issues.

The Rabbis don't care whatsoever what I write above, even though it is obviously true. For this reason and for how long they have kept Israel
in a state of corruption (some 84 generations ?!), I think it may at this
point be better that all the Rabbis will be banished from the Redemption,
and asked to leave to Egypt or wherever. This especially if they keep
their necks hard until even the second holocaust has happened, which at
7 times worse than the Nazis would be killing 95% to 99% of all Jewish
people in the world. After this catastrophy, I wonder what right the
Rabbis still have to even be on the territory of what may become the
Redemption of Israel. We will see how it goes, but this is what I am at
least thinking about. Their corrupting influence cannot be sustained,
and if they keep going with their obstinacy, then they made their choices against the truth and for the criminals to the bitter end, and shown
who they are: enemies of Israel, enemies of peace, enemies of Justice,
enemies of the Creator if you will.

Perhaps they are indeed, these fabled 'mixed multitude' which HKB'H
already warned against, not to allow them in with Israel. Also, HKB'H said
all of Israel needed to die, but Moshe Rabbeinu prevented it, and now we
have this mess. I therefore think that this death penalty upon the entire Nation of Israel is still hanging above their head, and it may soon be
executed at least to a great extend. (This if you want to go 'religious'
about it, but it is also all natural consequences of their phony laws).

It seems to me you are quite confused. This is about reality. Money,
land, economics, poverty, greed, war, and so on, politics, ideology, etc.

* End reply.

Again I see here, that when I do not give precise quotes about the
issues of laws Israel is betraying, then some people hook into it with
a reply. When I am precise (as I should be of course), then it gets
ignored.

The reason I see for this, is that when it is precise, it is serious,
and when it is not precise, it may just end up being read as more
gobblygook on the Internet, and people can read it in any way they feel
like, not comprehending that there is something serious and technical
behind it (technicalities of law if you will).

By the way, if we include in what to expect for the future, that which
'the autists' have said on dani18.com (which is not generally accepted
by Israel, but some do seem to agree with it), then there will be a
large amount of death of Jewish people happening due to the passing by
of this additional planet (or sister star) of the Sun, and the impact of certain relatively large stones on the Earth which are orbitting this
body. The point being, that a large amount of the death rate of the
Jewish people, may not come only from World War 3 or any Tyranny done by
the ruling criminals. It may also come in the form of a more generalized catastrophe on the Earth, which wipes out large amounts of people from
large areas of land, even to the extend of areas so large as entire
Nations (as far as I understood it).

It is probably quite hard to get to a death rate of 95% to 99% by human activity, although it may be possible. If this is part of the whole
program of punishment on humanity and Israel as well, then it will get
closer to these kinds of numbers more easily.

I realize all this is extremely far out, and until we see hard proof of
this, it is hard to really take it too serious from a Scientific
perspective at least. It is also an event which is more or less beyond
human capacity to deal with, although you could do a few things to
survive it (the autists say: move to Eretz Israel, immediately, and
especially leave the USA and also leave Brittain, and that much of
Europe would be under water).

Since it is clear that humanity wants to ultimately be evil and go to
war on the cosmos (idiotic as that may sound, but they are already
weaponizing space so to say), this may be the answer already from 'the
cosmos'. Humans declared war on the cosmos. Cosmos replies: you are
hereby nearly wiped out. What a joke humans are. What a shame and what a
joke. Up and down the food chain, it's a joke what is going on on Earth.

Still, also so much good and hard work is happening, and that makes it
so sad it will probably all end up destroyed. Why the great idiocy, why
the violence ? How can you be so idiotic as to think the way of violence
and lying will produce a world worth living in. The greed, the
selfishness, the obsession with cars and their own petty lives. All for themselves, and together to hell. Not all, but far too many, and that is
how this world is getting itself in trouble.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kITZOnUWA-Y
title: Yemot Hamashiach (16) - Does Mashiach Know he is Mashiach? -
Rav Shlomo Katz
source: Shlomo Katz

Replies continuing ...

Well, I'm also sorry, but I like to be precise and logical. What does
_"all those laws regarding land had to be made up because by a certain
point, no one knew who was the descendant of each tribe"_ mean ? 1. What
laws exactly, the ones written in the Torah, such as the Jubilee on land
and the price for which this land could be rented out until the next 50th
year (the expected value of the harvests) ? The phony laws made up by the Rabbis when Israel became so corrupt they no longer cared about what is
right and what is a lie, which is the state we are still in today thanks
to people like Hillel and Rambam and the Rabbis who follow them ? Since
you add that "laws had to be made up" when "it was no longer certain
who was what tribe", then this has to mean the latter. You are ratifying
the lies of the Rabbis, and even claiming that it matters who is of what
tribe regarding the Jubilee on the land. The Jubilee is bigger than that.

You talk about "science" (logical, proven mechanisms, facts, etc),
but you do not do or refer to any Science or objective scholarship
(I'm not sure how this works in the English language, we just have one
word for both things like physics and history). Law to a degree can be
both a matter of objective truth, while on the other hand it is more of
a craft or an art form. What works for one people doesn't necessarily
work for another. Some laws could be argued quite successfully as being objectively good, while others may be arbitrary. Most laws become
more arbitrary when it concerns more fine details of them and their implementation in the courts. It so happens that Israel has its own
system to make sure everyone has the right to land. The _right to land_
(for free and forever) is one of these higher level concepts, which are
more objectively good and necessary.

Land is not made by people, it is a given. A market, an economy, functions
on putting a price on effort. Products and services have their value,
depending upon the work put in. A glass worth of sea water on the
beach (excluding the glass), has a value of near zero, or to be exact,
an equivalent value of someone walking 50 steps or less. A work value
of perhaps a minute, which could work out for a wage of 10 $ / hour to something like 16 cents. The exact same sea water in an inland city, for example at a fish aquarium shop, could be worth a ten or hundred fold
of this amount. The price is not in the water itself (which you could
argue has an infinite value), the price is simply in the total work done
(time and effort) up to presenting the product to the costumer at the
point of sale.

Why do markets work ? Because prices converge towards fair & equal to all,
if everyone gets the same chances to work and reach costumers. If the
price of sea water in some city becomes high, for example because some
rich people start living there who want big aquariums, then the aquarium
shops become more profitable. For the same amount of work, suddenly they
earn double. This may be good for them, but it becomes unfair relative to
other people who put in more effort and time to earn _their_ money. The aquarium business has easy money, others work harder, for the same goods
they all want to buy (such as bread). This fundamental unfairness is
solved in a market economy, when others enter the unusually profitable
business sector. This enlarges the supply in that sector, increases the competition. Since the aquarium shops made so much easy money, other
businesses have an easy time to start in that sector by offering a lower
price. They will still be able to make a good earnings. The prices will
now go down. Eventually things start to dynamically converge to this
(somewhat illusive) fairness point again. It isn't that everything is necessarily perfectly fair at all times, but it converges naturally
toward fairness. This is critical in an economy and for the long term.

Raw land is not produced by humans, it is a given. It is critical for
people to be able to enter the market on their own and free, so that this mechanism of price convergence toward fair is operational. If you (all)
do not understand this, I would have to say that you (all) do basically
not have a clue about how this world and society (economy) is supposed
to function correctly. Without this understanding and practice, we are
monkeys playing with nukes now already.

If you understand all this, then you now understand also that you and
the Rabbis are incorrect about laws regarding land. It does not matter
what tribe you are, it does not matter what DNA you have. It does matter
if you are a human (as opposed to an animal like a cow or a fish), but
other than that and certainly within a Nation, all adults or _at least_
all families need their right to land honored. I can go on with explaining
what happens if you do not honor these principles, but a little effort
of your own should show you what a disaster it will be. The land will centralize, and the owners will become abusers of people.

The Torah is completely and beautifully correct. The beauty of the Torah
is also that it is not even this dogma that people sometimes make it
out to be. When one tribe came to ask if also the woman could own land
in that tribe, it was good. Why was it good: because they knew what they
where doing. They understood that it could be both, only men so families
had land, or both men and woman, which leads to the same. You now see how Rambam is a fraudulent teacher. It does not matter if Israel knows who is
what tribe, to honor the Jubilee. It does not matter if 12 tribes live
under Yerushalayim as the centre, or they split into two Nations. Both
need to perform the Jubilee, if that is their system of the right to land.

Also all the other Nations, all of them who are doing agriculture to such
an extend that the land is broadly covered or competition for the best
areas has come about, need to conduct a system of land distribution for
their people, or they will not make it as a Nation for long on Earth,
and they will likely become a failure. The move into agriculture is a
great shift of living for humanity, and this shift has still not been accomplished. A farmer gives everything their place: vines here, fig
trees there, potatoes there, carrots there, etc (I'm describing my own
garden now). It is both natural and necessary to also conduct ourselves
as farmers with each other, rather than as hunter gatherers and wild
animals. The new son of a family gets their place here, and the children
of another family will get their share of the land over there.

Farming in little, and farming in large. This has also been natural for
many tribes, but they forgot about it, and succumbed to ignorance and
evil over time, just like Israel. The Jubilee is certainly not the only
system for land distribution. It just so happens to be the historical way
in which Israel has done it. If this is their system, then they can do it
again and they have to. Whatever they do, just like all other Nations,
they need to honor the right to land for all, or they will not make it
as a people on Earth.

*

I will continue here, because I am never certain what google will delete
behind my back, as they often do (my original comment was a much shorter
one, from the original I wrote here, which Google deleted).

Your talk about DNA seems to have no substance to it. If I recall,
but I don't know exactly where and what prophet, wasn't there a prophet
who said Israel will be united, showing two pieces of wood ? Found it: https://www.sefaria.org/Ezekiel.37.23?lang=bi This is going to happen,
and is already happening it seems. The Jewish people usually do not
even know what tribe they are from, although some seem to know if they
are Levites (which is a special tribe with greater honor, because they
didn't fall into the idolatry).

They will be one people, and after their punishment, which I think at
this point is going to be 7 Nazi holocausts in one bigger event, because
they refused to do Teshuvah after the Nazis and we are now at the end
with nukes and high technology. Humanity needs to make peace, because
things are going too far. How are people going to deal with the next great Tyranny, where the weapons will be so much more extreme ? What about all
this horrible activity of modifying the human body with technology, and
just the wealth and technology being available to start growing people
in factories and so many terrible things that become possible and that
given the breath of time will happen if humanity continues to want to
be evil & ignorant.

Humans have tried absolutely terrible things in the past already,
indescribable torture and evil. This will continue the way it is going
now, but it will be coupled with all the technology we have now and
will have, which is constantly accelerating. If humanity does not choose
peace soon, it will have to be destroyed, or it will have to be accepted
that the most horrifying things are still to come, and that humanity may
design for itself a world that can be called hell, and even forever. It
is an interesting thought however, that the entire Earth can potentially
be controlled simply by deciding who will get born. If too many evil
people get born, it will become a hell, and if good people get born,
it will be a paradise. I suppose the issue is, that a lot of people
could still be either. Just like the Rabbis, they have some good points,
but they also serve ignorance and crime.

The truth and doing good is what would save humanity, and also in the
case of Israel this is so. In the case of Israel, they are asked to
do the Torah, a high standard of morality and law, although it seems
to be lacking in the dimension of the State. They had prophets, but
then they stopped listening to them and reverted to the worst form of Government: Kings. At least these where still Constitutional Monarchies,
rather than Absolute Monarchies, which for the time might have been
reasonable. Anyway, the point is that a people save themselves by being
good. The Torah is in their hand, they can read it and understand it,
and this way their God would have saved them, and they save themselves,
making that their own adventure and life's achievement, their honor and
their way. They would secure life for themselves.

Besides this, we see in the referenced prophet, that God says he will
save Israel. I think Israel and the Rabbis are making one mistake often,
and that is to think that as they are now that they will be saved, but
this is of course very much not what the Tanach is saying. Only a "remnant
will return" ? We see how lawless Israel is in general right now. By the standards of the Torah, almost all of them will die. If you consider that breaking the Shabbos is a death penalty, then what does it mean that the
Rabbis have broken the Shabbat in two, allowing work on all days ? It's
worse than a death penalty. A day is a day, a child understands it, but
Israel pretends it is a new day when you see 3 stars, and work starts
again in the evening. The whole of that Nation is under a death penalty,
and the Rabbis first because they spread and have created these laws.

This is the delusion I guess, of so many of these religious people. They
all seem to think they are the chosen few who will make it, yet are
they keeping to the laws which have been given to them ? This may
be the idolatry, that they think they will be saved _from themselves
and in spite of themselves,_ regardless of who is supposed to do that ('moshiach' or God). I see it more like so, that you need to be good,
and then you work to save others. You just stop caring too much about
being saved yourself, what ever that even means. By saving someone else,
it becomes worthwhile for that which is good to also save you, since
through you yet others are being helped; but if not, then so be it. Did
Moshe Rabbeinu think of himself when he killed those Egyptian guards
? He sacrificed his whole life, and what did he become ? He became the
greatest hero to have lived on Earth.

"The Torah will be unlocked." you write, but what does that mean ? It
just reads to me like word filler. Unlock by God, how ? Writing in the
sky ? The Torah is in their hand, they can read it and it takes basically nothing for them to see and know they have overthrown it. It takes nothing
for them to return to it, and benefit from its promises. They _choose_
with full knowledge to oppose the Torah. The Rabbis _know_ they oppose
the Torah. They cannot be this ignorant in the end. They _know_ they
are in this rebellion, Israel _knows_ they are opposing the Torah. This
also implies that they _know_ that the way they are now, they are not
going to survive it and may forever be lost, never see the Redemption,
never see this "ressurection of the dead" either, or perhaps in the
most horrible way. I hope at least, the good of them are confused and
can still save themselves. If not, they made their choices, they will
have to live the consequences.

I don't know what "riding a donkey" should mean exactly. I find the
phraze in total oddly specific, and have wondered if the first letters
of those words are referring to an army. Not a lot of people ride
on donkeys anymore, but who knows. It's not my problem. The prophets
said it, making it their and heaven's problem. I care about economics,
poverty and war, sorry.

*

My second reply seems to have been deleted by Google, without telling me
of course, as is their wicked way I suppose. I always copy my comments
over to Usenet (SCJ), which is a lost group full of trolls so it doesn't
matter if I write there.

* End reply.
--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)