• Jewish law (Torah) is about reality, not make belief.

    From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 4 15:07:11 2025
    Someone responded to some recent comment with that people need a
    "personal relationship with g/God". What is that always about with so
    many people, this new fad. Was this always already existing ? I think
    the Americans invented this ?

    Personally: I don't get it (even though 'the autists' even seem to be
    talking about it in a positive way), and I don't even want to get it
    (sorry).

    Reply ...

    Hello. Why do you respond like this, with a very personalized and
    potentially complete fantasy "relationship with g/God", when it is
    explicit and precise what the Jewish God wants from his people, such
    as to perform the right to land for all (Jubilee), to nullify the loans
    in the 7th year, and so on. Where does the Tanach say anything about a "personal relationship with g/God" ? (small caps for idols, caps for
    the Creator of everything)

    The only mention I know about a personal relationship, is for Moshe
    Rabbeinu himself, and nobody else. Only prophets are talking or listening
    to this God, which needs to be further verified by their behavior,
    their support for the Torah, and the truth of their predictions (not
    "tomorrow the sun comes up" but "The Pharao will put his throne on
    this rock"). Where do we know this "personal relationship with god"
    from ? Idolatrous cults all around and everywhere.

    The God of Israel said quite specific when and how Israel is supposed
    to show their fielty, but that is just one aspect of that law. Maybe
    you all - who are of this "personal relationship with God" mindset -
    should keep in mind that even Moshe Rabbeinu couldn't "see God" (as he
    would die, if I understand it). Even he would die.

    This is the relationship you can have with this God of Israel: keep to
    his laws, be a good person, be honest and not a scammer (unless in war
    of course, but that's not what we are now talking about). You realize
    that if you read the Tanach, that someone breaking the Shabbos has the
    death penalty. How can anyone claim to have a "personal relationship with
    the God of Israel", with all the dangers of imagination and going crazy
    around it anyway, and then they don't even do their job according to the
    Torah (supporting Hillel and Rambam rather than the law of the Torah),
    and we know that even someone who "merely" broke the Shabbos already
    has the death penalty.

    It doesn't sound like it to me that this God is going to be very
    friendly with people who put his Torah in the toilet (such as Hillel
    and Rambam). You all, probably both individually and as a group, are
    under multiple death sentences if you where to be judged under this law
    (if you are Jewish of course), but then you think you have a "personal relationship" with this God ? Is this God talking to you in your mind,
    do you hear voices ? This is not how it works with the God of Israel. The
    God of Israel is in complete control of reality, unlike figments of the imagination. If the God of Israel wants to say something and be heard,
    there is no limit in the ways this can be done. Even the Tanach talks
    about people imagining to themselves that they talked to God, when God
    didn't talk to them, or that they had dreams, but those dreams mean
    nothing. It's a known thing, even in the Torah.

    But ... it looks like you are not Jewish, because Jewish people don't
    usually seem to use words like "faith" or "religion" or this relationship thing. It sounds like some variety of American idolatry to the well
    known western idol, Jeebus the bastard (see Ceasar's Messiah on what
    that was really about, IMHO). If so, then you don't necessarily have
    to keep the entire Torah, but even for you it is absolutely critical to understand the right to land, or your people will likely have no future,
    and you refused to learn your lesson over the last thousands of years
    (how to do farming correctly, it is that basic IMHO).

    I am talking about land ownership, a certain amount of hectares of land,
    real land. Not fairy pie in the sky "personal relationship with God". I
    talk about real money, money in your wallet. You give it to someone in
    need. Laws are attached to this activity. 7th year comes, you may not
    even ask for it back at all, I even believe it must be prohibited and
    punished if the borrower _wants_ to give the money back after the 7th
    year. It is not allowed ! Such a negative practice may not spread. He
    must lend it instead to someone in need, and this way the goodness and
    love should spread all around the people.

    Reality. Not dream world fantasy. Not "worship this idol and pretend
    the idol will fix things". Deal with reality hands on and get it right,
    that is what it is about. Food for the children, morality for everyone,
    freedom to live a decent life, etc. Reality reality reality. Actions
    actions actions. Not dream world "worship" "religion" and (fake) priests casting their spells. Reality: laws regulations actions, results. Physical
    real results. People who are free, not slaves. Nation at peace, not
    war. Husband and bride happy, house safe, food on the table, a way to
    earn a living and do something. Not temples and statues and make belief,
    even though there will have to be a Supreme Court and apparently they
    need a temple, but that's not really what it is about (IMHO).

    Have a nice day.

    * End reply.

    What a hopeless world.

    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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  • From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 6 11:04:54 2025
    Someone suggested I make some videos ...

    One of the things which keeps me away from doing propaganda videos,
    is that if people cannot get serious about things in a written form
    (be that economics, democracy, peace, or the Tanach in written form,
    the _written law_ given by Moshe Rabbeinu), then I do not see the hope
    for them one way or the other. If we take the Torah, it is quite clear
    what it means. If nevertheless people support either Roman idolatry or Rabbinical Judaism, they made their choices against Justice and peace,
    and I don't see the hope for them anymore. The level of dishonesty is
    just too great, and if it isn't a moral failure then it has to be an intellectual failure, and either is so severe that I do not think such
    people can make a Nation succeed in the long term. They belong back in
    the Stone Age, where the damage they are doing will at least be limited
    by the tools they possess.

    To make this a bit more clear: when a Nation is set right by events
    such as with Moshe Rabbeinu, if an injustice comes up in the people,
    if something bad has happened and the victim is asking for Justice, then
    what level of effort is reasonable for such a person to undertake ? It
    should be enough to just talk about it, and get people on the case. Talk
    is words. Written words are also words. In the case of illegal law making
    (such as by Roman idolators or Rabbis, which they have done and which
    has ruined Israel and will probably cause the near complete destruction
    of Israel in the coming decades I think), it is even simpler because
    you don't even have to investigate any facts. It's simply a matter of
    law on its own, as rules and principles.

    I think it cannot be expected from a victim of some crime, that they
    need to argue their case relentlessly for years and even decades,
    to launch entire platforms and video propaganda efforts, simply to be
    heard and at least investigated, never mind even get the issue resolved correctly. Therefore I think, if people want to be _this dishonest_
    with the Tanach (as they have been now since they have overthrown the
    Jubilee), then they are showing that they are incapable of living under
    Justice and Peace. If they get tricked into it by convincing videos,
    you get people in that Redeemed Nation (of Israel in this case, but
    whichever), who may generally do a few things right, but who lack the
    morality, the care, the intelligence, to keep things going correctly or
    even right away they will start ignoring the pleading of the victims of
    various crimes that will likely happen (be that crimes from Jewish to
    Jewish person, or gentile to Jewish or whatever the case may be). They
    cannot handle it, or you could say, they don't "deserve it".

    They don't deserve to be Redeemed, if they cannot handle correctly
    a simple argument in written form, such as these comments. This is
    already more than enough in that sense, the comments I wrote here on
    youtube. They can read them, investigate, and get into action, and the Redemption might already be well under way because of just that. It is
    not useful to entice people who do not really want peace with convincing products, because you get a group of incompetent people together to do
    a job they don't want to see through.

    This is the moral and practical problem I see with this thing of making propaganda. If there are people who want to read and start to care,
    then you have selected those who are capable and who can make it a
    success. These people unfortunately do not seem to exist. If that is
    the case, then the solution for this world is to go back to the Stone
    Age or perhaps early farming where they can try to learn everything all
    over again, which at least is better than to face the high technological Dystopia which is now being build.

    The Torah is the same: it is a written law. Moshe Rabbeinu hacked out some plates (or however). Words written in stone, and that was what they got
    away with. The God of Israel also apparently spoke words, and although
    this came with great might (so the story goes), it was still words. You
    can also see it this way: back then they where to an extend forced,
    but that is not good enough to proof they want peace. They still need
    to pass another test, which is if they can care when there is no force
    upon them whatsoever. If they can pass that test, they can live forever
    as a people, with peace and justice. They then have what it takes to
    keep their Nation in good order.

    This test they have currently failed, perhaps not entirely as there
    are still a few scraps and pieces of Torah and peace going around, but
    it is quite thin and not serious anymore. They are not serious anymore
    (if they ever where). The catastrophy will be extreme. They have brought
    it upon themselves.

    In the end, I might still try something in the way of videos, perhaps
    even making it not too convincing even on purpose, so that only the good
    and caring will select themselves, and the rest will be left with the
    extremely well designed propaganda of the enemy (which currently is the
    USA global Empire of crime and deception, sold as freedom and democracy).

    If they "wait for moshiach" to solve their problems for them, than
    I believe that this implies failure. They should act for Justice &
    Peace, yet they sit on their hands waiting on some idol to solve their problems. This is how they are selecting themselves out to either belong
    or be cast out of the eventual Redemption, I guess. Not many are likely
    to make it at this point, perhaps even no more than eventually a few
    dozen. That would be for later however, as the next round of punishment
    might not yet cut the Jewish people down to such an extreme, since 7
    times the Nazi holocaust might imply "merely" a 95% to 99% death rate
    of the Jewish population (7 times a third or half).

    * End reply.

    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)