• Opinion | We need a real debate about the Ukraine =?UTF-8?B?d2Fy4oCI4oC

    From Nick@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 27 10:09:11 2022
    още бели расисти/фашисти, религиозни фундаменталисти, анти-американски
    конспиративни култисти и подобни:

    Furthermore, the more protracted the war in Ukraine, the greater the risk
    of a nuclear accident or incident. And with the Biden administration’s strategy to “weaken” Russia with the scale of weapons shipments, including anti-ship missiles, and revelations of U.S. intelligence assistance to
    Ukraine, it is clear that the United States and NATO are in a proxy war
    with Russia.

    Shouldn’t the ramifications, perils and multifaceted costs of this proxy
    war be a central topic of media coverage — as well as informed analysis, discussion and debate? Yet what we have in the media and political establishment is, for the most part, a one-sided, even nonexistent, public discussion and debate. It’s as if we live with what journalist Matt Taibbi has dubbed an “intellectual no-fly zone.”

    Тhose who have departed from the orthodox line on Ukraine are regularly excluded from or marginalized — certainly rarely seen — on big corporate media. The result is that alternative and countervailing views and voices
    seem nonexistent. Wouldn’t it be healthy to have more diversity of views, history and context rather than “confirmation bias”?



    Those who speak of history and offer context about the West’s
    precipitating role in the Ukraine tragedy are not excusing Russia’s
    criminal attack. It is a measure of such thinking, and the rhetorical or intellectual no-fly zone, that prominent figures such as Noam Chomsky, University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer and former U.S.
    ambassador Chas Freeman, among others, have been demonized or slurred for raising cogent arguments and providing much-needed context and history to explain the background of this war.

    In our fragile democracy, the cost of dissent is comparatively low. Why,
    then, aren’t more individuals at think tanks or in academia, media or politics challenging the orthodox U.S. political-media narrative? Is it
    not worth asking whether sending ever-more weapons to the Ukrainians is
    the wisest course? Is it too much to ask for more questioning and
    discussion about how best to diminish the danger of nuclear conflict? Why
    are nonconformists smeared for noting, even bolstered with reputable facts
    and history, the role of nationalist, far-right and, yes, neo-Nazi forces
    in Ukraine? Fascist or neo-Nazi revivalism is a toxic factor in many
    countries today, from European nations to the United States. Why is
    Ukraine’s history too often ignored, even denied?



    останалото -- в източника на публикацията.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/24/ukraine-russia-war- biden-strategy-debate/

    как па верно все на такива попадам?

    нямам идея какъв е източникът, нито пък дали авторката има страница в
    уикипедия, а и честно казано -- не ме интересува.

    обсебеният, ако се осмели да коментира, да коментира написаното в
    статията. тогава мога да му обърна евентуално някакво внимание.

    това е, аз отивам да приемам някаква доставка на компютърно оборудване 8-)

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ivaylo Ivanov@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 27 04:09:16 2022
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ivaylo Ivanov@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 27 04:48:35 2022
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nick@21:1/5 to Ivaylo Ivanov on Fri May 27 11:29:35 2022
    On Fri, 27 May 2022 04:09:16 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 6:09:15 AM UTC-4, Nick wrote:
    още бели расисти/фашисти, религиозни фундаменталисти, анти-американски
    конспиративни култисти и подобни:

    Furthermore, the more protracted the war in Ukraine, the greater the
    risk of a nuclear accident or incident. And with the Biden
    administration’s strategy to “weaken” Russia with the scale of weapons >> shipments, including anti-ship missiles, and revelations of U.S.
    intelligence assistance to Ukraine, it is clear that the United States
    and NATO are in a proxy war with Russia.

    Shouldn’t the ramifications, perils and multifaceted costs of this
    proxy war be a central topic of media coverage — as well as informed
    analysis,
    discussion and debate? Yet what we have in the media and political
    establishment is, for the most part, a one-sided, even nonexistent,
    public discussion and debate. It’s as if we live with what journalist
    Matt Taibbi has dubbed an “intellectual no-fly zone.”

    Тhose who have departed from the orthodox line on Ukraine are regularly
    excluded from or marginalized — certainly rarely seen — on big
    corporate media. The result is that alternative and countervailing
    views and voices seem nonexistent. Wouldn’t it be healthy to have more
    diversity of views,
    history and context rather than “confirmation bias”?



    Those who speak of history and offer context about the West’s
    precipitating role in the Ukraine tragedy are not excusing Russia’s
    criminal attack. It is a measure of such thinking, and the rhetorical
    or intellectual no-fly zone, that prominent figures such as Noam
    Chomsky,
    University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer and former U.S.
    ambassador Chas Freeman, among others, have been demonized or slurred
    for raising cogent arguments and providing much-needed context and
    history to explain the background of this war.

    In our fragile democracy, the cost of dissent is comparatively low.
    Why,
    then, aren’t more individuals at think tanks or in academia, media or
    politics challenging the orthodox U.S. political-media narrative? Is it
    not worth asking whether sending ever-more weapons to the Ukrainians is
    the wisest course? Is it too much to ask for more questioning and
    discussion about how best to diminish the danger of nuclear conflict?
    Why are nonconformists smeared for noting, even bolstered with
    reputable facts and history, the role of nationalist, far-right and,
    yes, neo-Nazi forces in Ukraine? Fascist or neo-Nazi revivalism is a
    toxic factor in many countries today, from European nations to the
    United States. Why is Ukraine’s history too often ignored, even denied?



    останалото -- в източника на публикацията.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/24/ukraine-russia-war-
    biden-strategy-debate/

    как па верно все на такива попадам?

    нямам идея какъв е източникът, нито пък дали авторката има страница в
    уикипедия, а и честно казано -- не ме интересува.

    обсебеният, ако се осмели да коментира, да коментира написаното в
    статията. тогава мога да му обърна евентуално някакво внимание.

    това е, аз отивам да приемам някаква доставка на компютърно оборудване
    8-)

    Тази е жената на покойния Стивън Коен* (и бивш главен редактор и
    собственик на "The Nation"). В този контекст няма нужда да й чета есето
    за да зная какво е казала по темата.

    е, аз бях казал да коментираш написаното от нея, а не самата нея, защото
    не си по-различен от онзи дето беше заявил миналия век „я солженицин не
    читал, но оссуждаю“.

    после не се учудвай на отношението ми към теб.

    *Едва ли не знаеш кой беше той.

    сещам се за стив банън, но за този нямам спомен, колкото и да не ти се
    вярва. аз по-скоро помня стореното от някого, отколкото кой точно го е
    сторил.

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nick@21:1/5 to Ivaylo Ivanov on Fri May 27 16:33:49 2022
    On Fri, 27 May 2022 04:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 7:29:39 AM UTC-4, Nick wrote:

    On Fri, 27 May 2022 04:09:16 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 6:09:15 AM UTC-4, Nick wrote:

    още бели расисти/фашисти, религиозни фундаменталисти,
    анти-американски конспиративни култисти и подобни:

    Furthermore, the more protracted the war in Ukraine, the greater the
    risk of a nuclear accident or incident. And with the Biden
    administration’s strategy to “weaken” Russia with the scale of
    weapons shipments, including anti-ship missiles, and revelations of
    U.S. intelligence assistance to Ukraine, it is clear that the United
    States and NATO are in a proxy war with Russia.

    Shouldn’t the ramifications, perils and multifaceted costs of this
    proxy war be a central topic of media coverage — as well as informed
    analysis, discussion and debate? Yet what we have in the media and
    political establishment is, for the most part, a one-sided, even
    nonexistent, public discussion and debate. It’s as if we live with
    what journalist Matt Taibbi has dubbed an “intellectual no-fly
    zone.”

    Тhose who have departed from the orthodox line on Ukraine are
    regularly excluded from or marginalized — certainly rarely seen — on >> >> big corporate media. The result is that alternative and
    countervailing views and voices seem nonexistent. Wouldn’t it be
    healthy to have more diversity of views,
    history and context rather than “confirmation bias”?



    Those who speak of history and offer context about the West’s
    precipitating role in the Ukraine tragedy are not excusing Russia’s
    criminal attack. It is a measure of such thinking, and the
    rhetorical or intellectual no-fly zone, that prominent figures such
    as Noam Chomsky, University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer
    and former U.S. ambassador Chas Freeman, among others, have been
    demonized or slurred for raising cogent arguments and providing
    much-needed context and history to explain the background of this
    war.

    In our fragile democracy, the cost of dissent is comparatively low.
    Why, then, aren’t more individuals at think tanks or in academia,
    media or politics challenging the orthodox U.S. political-media
    narrative?

    Is it not worth asking whether sending ever-more weapons to the
    Ukrainians is the wisest course? Is it too much to ask for more
    questioning and discussion about how best to diminish the danger of
    nuclear conflict?

    Why are nonconformists smeared for noting, even bolstered with
    reputable facts and history, the role of nationalist, far-right and,
    yes, neo-Nazi forces in Ukraine? Fascist or neo-Nazi revivalism is a
    toxic factor in many countries today, from European nations to the
    United States. Why is Ukraine’s history too often ignored, even
    denied?



    останалото -- в източника на публикацията.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/24/ukraine-russia- war-biden-strategy-debate/

    как па верно все на такива попадам?

    нямам идея какъв е източникът, нито пък дали авторката има страница
    в уикипедия, а и честно казано -- не ме интересува.

    обсебеният, ако се осмели да коментира, да коментира написаното в
    статията. тогава мога да му обърна евентуално някакво внимание.

    това е, аз отивам да приемам някаква доставка на компютърно
    оборудване 8-)

    Тази е жената на покойния Стивън Коен* (и бивш главен редактор и
    собственик на "The Nation"). В този контекст няма нужда да й чета
    есето за да зная какво е казала по темата.

    е, аз бях казал да коментираш написаното от нея, а не самата нея,
    защото не си по-различен от онзи дето беше заявил миналия век „я
    солженицин не читал, но оссуждаю“.

    Защо трябва да коментирам мненията на хора добре известни от години като
    апологети на Путинския империализъм??

    защото си в ситуацията, която споменавам малко по-горе. нито в първото
    интервю, нито във второто се говори колко е велик путин.

    и доказваш съмнението ми, че изобщо не четеш това, което ти се показва.

    между другото, слагането на етикети не беше ли характерно за тези, които
    мразиш?

    после не се учудвай на отношението ми към теб.

    *Едва ли не знаеш кой беше той.

    сещам се за стив банън, но за този нямам спомен, колкото и да не ти се
    вярва. аз по-скоро помня стореното от някого, отколкото кой точно го е
    сторил.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_F._Cohen#Putin_era

    мда, работата е ясна, да влизат санитарите.

    ти солженицин не си чел, но го осъждаш. аргументи -- йок.

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)