• Do We Really Know Who Is Winning in Ukraine?

    From Nick@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 29 17:14:36 2022
    Do We Really Know Who Is Winning in Ukraine?

    We underestimated the Ukrainians and overestimated the Russians, but now
    we seem to be doing the reverse.

    May 26, 2022 | 12:01 am

    Doug Bandow

    Russia’s attack was unjustified and criminal, causing needless death and destruction in Ukraine, and sacrificing Russian lives for no good reason.
    The U.S. and Europeans share the blame, having spent decades ignoring and dismissing security complaints from Moscow, a decision that turned out to
    be foolish, even reckless. However, that does not excuse Putin’s murderous aggression. Nor are Ukrainians his only victims; Vladimir Putin’s decision has sent shockwaves across nations and continents.



    For instance, German Brigadier General Erich Vad recently offered a far
    more pessimistic assessment than that which dominates Western airwaves:

    [T]he Russians predominantly decide when, where, and with what forces,
    they strike. The Russians proceed slowly in Donbass in steps over a
    several kilometers broad front, and they also achieve gains in territory.
    It does not happen so fast here as during the initial operations in Kyiv, because they position themselves broader. And besides Mariupol, they
    control here also the other urban centers on the Sea of Azov, and the
    coast of the Black Sea. When one considers, it exists this option, which President Zelensky talks about, of a counterstrike for the reconquest of
    areas. But militarily-operationally this is far away from reality. The
    Russians are simply too strong in east Ukraine. They have on the ground
    and also in the air supremacy—that should not be misjudged. For counteroffensives, the Ukrainians do not have the materiel, and they would
    not succeed, if they had the materiel.

    Vad dismissed claims that Western arms guarantee a Ukrainian breakthrough:

    Ukraine’s logistical base is a thousand kilometers away, in Poland and Slovakia. That these weapons have to be relocated over thousands of
    kilometers through Ukraine to east Ukraine. And these supply lines are of course under fire from the Russians. By their cruise missiles, short range missiles, air force, by special forces, and reconnaissance. This way, a
    large part of these supplies is annihilated or captured on its way to east Ukraine. From a military-operational viewpoint, Ukraine only has a chance
    to win at the end of a long-lasting conflict if the costs for Russia are
    too high. That is, similar to Afghanistan for the West. Or Iraq for the
    USA. But the price would be enormously high [for Ukraine]. It would in the
    end be devastation of the country. That can, in my view, somehow never be
    the objective.



    However, a Ukrainian victory is not certain. It probably isn’t likely. It might not even be possible. Given the uncertainty, the U.S. should push
    for negotiations, offering support to Kiev to make peace, and providing sanctions relief to Moscow if it does the same.



    останалото обсебеният може да прочете сам.

    надявам се, че този път няма да се хлъзне да търси статии за автора или за
    организацията, създала сайта, а ще наблегне на осмислянето на текста.

    в него има и други интересни неща, като това кой кого бил биел в този
    конфликт. споменава се и нещо за жертви, ама ще оставя това обсебения да
    го оповести, ако се осмели 8-).

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ivaylo Ivanov@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 31 08:14:50 2022
    T24gU3VuZGF5LCBNYXkgMjksIDIwMjIgYXQgMToxNDozNyBQTSBVVEMtNCwgTmljayB3cm90ZToN Cg0KLi4uDQo+IFtUXWhlIFJ1c3NpYW5zIHByZWRvbWluYW50bHkgZGVjaWRlIHdoZW4sIHdoZXJl LCBhbmQgd2l0aCB3aGF0IGZvcmNlcywgDQo+IHRoZXkgc3RyaWtlLiBUaGUgUnVzc2lhbnMgcHJv Y2VlZCBzbG93bHkgaW4gRG9uYmFzcyBpbiBzdGVwcyBvdmVyIGEgDQo+IHNldmVyYWwga2lsb21l dGVycyBicm9hZCBmcm9udCwgYW5kIHRoZXkgYWxzbyBhY2hpZXZlIGdhaW5zIGluIHRlcnJpdG9y eS4gDQo+IEl0IGRvZXMgbm90IGhhcHBlbiBzbyBmYXN0IGhlcmUgYXMgZHVyaW5nIHRoZSBpbml0 aWFsIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMgaW4gS3lpdiwgDQo+IGJlY2F1c2UgdGhleSBwb3NpdGlvbiB0aGVtc2Vs dmVzIGJyb2FkZXIuIEFuZCBiZXNpZGVzIE1hcml1cG9sLCB0aGV5IA0KPiBjb250cm9sIGhlcmUg YWxzbyB0aGUgb3RoZXIgdXJiYW4gY2VudGVycyBvbiB0aGUgU2VhIG9mIEF6b3YsIGFuZCB0aGUg DQo+IGNvYXN0IG9mIHRoZSBCbGFjayBTZWEuIFdoZW4gb25lIGNvbnNpZGVycywgaXQgZXhpc3Rz IHRoaXMgb3B0aW9uLCB3aGljaCANCj4gUHJlc2lkZW50IFplbGVuc2t5IHRhbGtzIGFib3V0LCBv ZiBhIGNvdW50ZXJzdHJpa2UgZm9yIHRoZSByZWNvbnF1ZXN0IG9mIA0KPiBhcmVhcy4gQnV0IG1p bGl0YXJpbHktb3BlcmF0aW9uYWxseSB0aGlzIGlzIGZhciBhd2F5IGZyb20gcmVhbGl0eS4gVGhl IA0KPiBSdXNzaWFucyBhcmUgc2ltcGx5IHRvbyBzdHJvbmcgaW4gZWFzdCBVa3JhaW5lLiBUaGV5 IGhhdmUgb24gdGhlIGdyb3VuZCANCj4gYW5kIGFsc28gaW4gdGhlIGFpciBzdXByZW1hY3nigJR0 aGF0IHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgbWlzanVkZ2VkLiBGb3IgDQo+IGNvdW50ZXJvZmZlbnNpdmVzLCB0 aGUgVWtyYWluaWFucyBkbyBub3QgaGF2ZSB0aGUgbWF0ZXJpZWwsIGFuZCB0aGV5IHdvdWxkIA0K PiBub3Qgc3VjY2VlZCwgaWYgdGhleSBoYWQgdGhlIG1hdGVyaWVsLiANCg0K0J3QtSDQstC40LbQ tNCw0Lwg0L3QuNGJ0L4g0L7RgdC+0LHQtdC90L4g0YHQv9C+0YDQvdC+INCyINC90LDQv9C40YHQ sNC90L7RgtC+INC/0L4t0LPQvtGA0LUuINCf0YDQtdC00Lgg0KPQutGA0LDQudC90LAg0LTQsCDQ v9C+0LvRg9GH0Lgg0Lgg0YPRgdCy0L7QuCDRgtC10LbQutCwINC30LDQv9Cw0LTQvdCwDQrQsNGA 0YLQuNC70LXRgNC40Y8g0LIg0YHQvtC70LjQtNC90Lgg0LrQvtC70LjRh9C10YHRgtCy0LAsINC9 0LXRidC+INC60L7QtdGC0L4g0L3Rj9C80LAg0LTQsCDRgdGC0LDQvdC1INC/0YDQtdC00Lgg0LrR gNCw0Y8g0L3QsCDQuNC00L3QuNGPINC80LXRgdC10YYsINGC0LXRhdC90LjRgtC1INGI0LDQvdGB 0L7QstC1IA0K0LTQsCDRg9C00YrRgNC20LDRgiDQlNC+0L3QsdCw0YEg0L3QtSDQtSDRgdCwINC+ 0YHQvtCx0LXQvdC+INCy0LjRgdC+0LrQuC4g0JIg0LzQvtC80LXQvdGC0LAg0LXQtNC40L3RgdGC 0LLQtdC90L7RgtC+LCDQvdCwINC60L7QtdGC0L4g0YHQsCDRgdC/0L7RgdC+0LHQvdC4LCDQtSDQ tNCwINC90LDQvdC10YHQsNGCDQrRgtC10LbQutC4INC30LDQs9GD0LHQuCwg0LIg0LHQvtC50L3Q sCDRgdC40LvQsCDQuCDRgtC10YXQvdC40LrQsCwg0L3QsCDRgNGD0YHQutCw0YLQsCDQsNGA0LzQ uNGPLiANCg==

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nick@21:1/5 to Ivaylo Ivanov on Tue May 31 15:50:33 2022
    On Tue, 31 May 2022 08:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-4, Nick wrote:

    ...

    [T]he Russians predominantly decide when, where, and with what forces,
    they strike. The Russians proceed slowly in Donbass in steps over a
    several kilometers broad front, and they also achieve gains in
    territory. It does not happen so fast here as during the initial
    operations in Kyiv, because they position themselves broader. And
    besides Mariupol, they control here also the other urban centers on the
    Sea of Azov, and the coast of the Black Sea. When one considers, it
    exists this option, which President Zelensky talks about, of a
    counterstrike for the reconquest of areas. But militarily-operationally
    this is far away from reality. The Russians are simply too strong in
    east Ukraine. They have on the ground and also in the air
    supremacy—that should not be misjudged. For counteroffensives, the
    Ukrainians do not have the materiel, and they would not succeed, if
    they had the materiel.

    Не виждам нищо особено спорно в написаното по-горе. Преди Украйна да
    получи и усвои тежка западна артилерия в солидни количества, нещо което
    няма да стане преди края на идния месец, техните шансове да удържат
    Донбас не е са особено високи. В момента единственото, на което са
    способни, е да нанесат тежки загуби, в бойна сила и техника, на руската
    армия.

    аха, само се чудя къде са санитарите.

    не за друго, а защото само този абзац ти се е сторил безспорен. а другите,
    които трябва да са спорни, реши срамежливо да пропуснеш? особено един от
    тях 8-)

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ivaylo Ivanov@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 31 13:43:24 2022
    T24gVHVlc2RheSwgTWF5IDMxLCAyMDIyIGF0IDExOjUwOjM1IEFNIFVUQy00LCBOaWNrIHdyb3Rl Og0KPiBPbiBUdWUsIDMxIE1heSAyMDIyIDA4OjE0OjUwIC0wNzAwIChQRFQpLCBJdmF5bG8gSXZh bm92IHdyb3RlOiANCj4gDQo+ID4gT24gU3VuZGF5LCBNYXkgMjksIDIwMjIgYXQgMToxNDozNyBQ TSBVVEMtNCwgTmljayB3cm90ZTogDQo+IA0KDQouLi4NCj4g0L3QtSDQt9CwINC00YDRg9Cz0L4s INCwINC30LDRidC+0YLQviDRgdCw0LzQviDRgtC+0LfQuCDQsNCx0LfQsNGGINGC0Lgg0YHQtSDQ tSDRgdGC0L7RgNC40Lsg0LHQtdC30YHQv9C+0YDQtdC9LiDQsCDQtNGA0YPQs9C40YLQtSwgDQo+ INC60L7QuNGC0L4g0YLRgNGP0LHQstCwINC00LAg0YHQsCDRgdC/0L7RgNC90LgsINGA0LXRiNC4 INGB0YDQsNC80LXQttC70LjQstC+INC00LAg0L/RgNC+0L/Rg9GB0L3QtdGIPyANCg0K0JrQsNC6 0LLQviDQuNGB0LrQsNGIINC00LAg0LrQsNC20LAg0LfQsCDRgtGP0YU/INCQINC30LAg0YHQu9C1 0LTQvdC40YLQtSDQv9Cw0YHQsNC20Lg6DQoiRm9yIGNvdW50ZXJvZmZlbnNpdmVzLCB0aGUgVWty YWluaWFucyAuLi4gd291bGQgbm90IHN1Y2NlZWQsIGlmIHRoZXkgaGFkIHRoZSBtYXRlcmllbCIN CiJhIGxhcmdlIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlc2Ugc3VwcGxpZXMgaXMgYW5uaWhpbGF0ZWQgb3IgY2FwdHVy ZWQgb24gaXRzIHdheSB0byBlYXN0IFVrcmFpbmUiDQoNCtGB0LAg0L/RgNC+0YHRgtC+INC90LXQ stC10YDQvdC4Lg==

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nick@21:1/5 to Ivaylo Ivanov on Tue May 31 20:51:30 2022
    On Tue, 31 May 2022 13:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 11:50:35 AM UTC-4, Nick wrote:

    On Tue, 31 May 2022 08:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Ivaylo Ivanov wrote:

    On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-4, Nick wrote:

    ...

    не за друго, а защото само този абзац ти се е сторил безспорен. а
    другите, които трябва да са спорни, реши срамежливо да пропуснеш?

    Какво искаш да кажа за тях? А за следните пасажи:

    "For counteroffensives, the Ukrainians ... would not succeed, if they
    had the materiel"

    "a large part of these supplies is annihilated or captured on its way to
    east Ukraine"

    са просто неверни.

    аха, аха.

    всъщност, не очаквам да кажеш нещо различно от това, което си казал. както
    вече казах работата е ясна.

    --
    «地 球 誕 生 在 牛 市 的 小 時 — Earth is born in the Bull's hour»

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)