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  • "Years and upwards" on marriage bonds

    From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 19 19:06:56 2024
    "alledged and made Oath as follows, That he is of the Age of ________
    Years and upwards, and a ___________ and intends to marry _____________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________
    aged ________________ Years and upwards, and a ___________"

    Those are the printed bits; the one I'm looking at has Thirty, Widower,
    her name and residence, Twenty two, and Spinster filled in.

    It's the "and upwards" bit that I am puzzled about. Had it, and I'm
    pretty sure I've seen several such, said just "twenty-one and upwards",
    I'd assume it just meant they were claiming (often enough untruthfully!)
    that they are of the age of majority and thus eligible to marry without consent. But I've often enough seen ages over 21 - and at least one
    under (nineteen) - that that doesn't explain it.

    Anyone know? Does "and upwards" not mean what I at first assume it does?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    ... the greatest musical festival in the world that doesn't involve mud.
    - Eddie Mair, RT 2014/8/16-22

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  • From john@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Fri Jan 19 22:45:15 2024
    On 19/01/2024 20:06, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    "alledged and made Oath as follows, That he is of the Age of ________
    Years and upwards, and a ___________ and intends to marry _____________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________
    aged ________________ Years and upwards, and a ___________"

    Those are the printed bits; the one I'm looking at has Thirty, Widower,
    her name and residence, Twenty two, and Spinster filled in.

    It's the "and upwards" bit that I am puzzled about. Had it, and I'm
    pretty sure I've seen several such, said just "twenty-one and upwards",
    I'd assume it just meant they were claiming (often enough untruthfully!)
    that they are of the age of majority and thus eligible to marry without consent. But I've often enough seen ages over 21 - and at least one
    under (nineteen) - that that doesn't explain it.

    Anyone know? Does "and upwards" not mean what I at first assume it does?

    A quick bit of research
    from https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Marriage_Allegations,_Bonds_and_Licences_in_England_and_Wales
    "The exact ages of the parties may appear but sometimes only a rough age
    is given and after 1754 "twenty-one years and upwards" regularly
    appears, although practice varied in different places. If either of the
    parties was under 21 then a formal written statement of approval by the appropriate parent or guardian was required. No person under the age of
    21 - unless already married and widowed - was allowed to marry in church without the permission of their parents."

    The 1754 date comes from the Clandestine Marriages Act 1753 coming in to
    force on 25 Mar 1754 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_Marriages_Act_1753

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to john on Fri Jan 19 23:23:36 2024
    In message <uoeqhc$3akna$1@dont-email.me> at Fri, 19 Jan 2024 22:45:15,
    john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> writes
    On 19/01/2024 20:06, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    "alledged and made Oath as follows, That he is of the Age of ________
    Years and upwards, and a ___________ and intends to marry
    _____________________________________________________________
    _____________________________________________________________
    aged ________________ Years and upwards, and a ___________"
    Those are the printed bits; the one I'm looking at has Thirty,
    Widower, her name and residence, Twenty two, and Spinster filled in.
    It's the "and upwards" bit that I am puzzled about. Had it, and I'm >>pretty sure I've seen several such, said just "twenty-one and
    upwards", I'd assume it just meant they were claiming (often enough >>untruthfully!) that they are of the age of majority and thus eligible
    to marry without consent. But I've often enough seen ages over 21 -
    and at least one under (nineteen) - that that doesn't explain it.
    Anyone know? Does "and upwards" not mean what I at first assume it
    does?

    A quick bit of research
    from
    https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Marriage_Allegations,_Bonds_and_Lic >ences_in_England_and_Wales
    "The exact ages of the parties may appear but sometimes only a rough
    age is given and after 1754 "twenty-one years and upwards" regularly
    appears, although practice varied in different places. If either of the >parties was under 21 then a formal written statement of approval by the >appropriate parent or guardian was required. No person under the age of
    21 - unless already married and widowed - was allowed to marry in
    church without the permission of their parents."
    []
    Yes, as I said, I was quite familiar with "21 years and upwards"
    occurring frequently, as a way of claiming majority and thus consent not required - often untruthfully claimed.

    What puzzles me is the "and upwards" appearing when ages other than 21
    are inserted, both higher and lower (such as 30 and 19).

    I guess it's that it's preprinted on the form, so few people feel
    they're entitled to delete it, but it does make the age seem less
    precise.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur". ("Anything is more impressive if you say it in Latin")

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