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  • Why Not Admit There Are Bad Muslims?

    From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 8 20:36:54 2016
    I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.

    Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.

    Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Catherine Jefferson@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Fri Jan 8 23:00:58 2016
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:
    I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police
    officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a
    Muslim although he himself said that he was.

    Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil
    who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true
    as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the
    religion is to blame.

    Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!

    But that's too simple, too easy, too logical! It'll never work! <wry grin>

    In case anybody missed the point -- I agree with David 100%. There are
    bad people of all religions or none, all ethnic groups, and I suspect
    all arbitrary groups of human beings larger than a dozen people.
    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
    on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
    motivated by it.

    However, it's an old human error (sin, IMHO) to blame a whole group for
    the actions of individual members.


    --
    Catherine Jefferson <tw86034@ergosphere.net>
    Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Sat Jan 9 12:23:29 2016
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 4:40:03 AM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.


    The mayor said it does reflect Muslim thinking, not that he
    was not a Muslim.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160109


    Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney, a Democrat sworn in on Monday, told reporters he did not believe Archer's actions reflected Islamic thinking.

    "In no way shape or form does anyone in this room believe that what was done represents Islam," Kenney said. "This was done by a criminal with a stolen gun."

    Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.

    Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!

    True.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to Yusuf B Gursey on Sat Jan 9 13:39:20 2016
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 10:30:07 AM UTC-8, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 4:40:03 AM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.


    The mayor said it does reflect Muslim thinking, not that he
    was not a Muslim.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160109


    Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney, a Democrat sworn in on Monday, told reporters he did not believe Archer's actions reflected Islamic thinking.

    "In no way shape or form does anyone in this room believe that what was done represents Islam," Kenney said. "This was done by a criminal with a stolen gun."

    Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.

    Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!

    True.

    Thanks Yusuf for the clarification.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zev@21:1/5 to Catherine Jefferson on Mon Jan 25 16:05:20 2016
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
    on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
    motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to DKleinecke on Tue Jan 26 11:56:57 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-8, DKleinecke wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 3:50:02 PM UTC-8, David Amicus wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-8, Zev wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".

    Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
    But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
    killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing. Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...

    Right! Many things are cultural and not religious like female circumcision. Years ago in my community there was a Sikh honor killing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to Zev on Mon Jan 25 17:45:27 2016
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-8, Zev wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
    on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DKleinecke@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Tue Jan 26 11:31:58 2016
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 3:50:02 PM UTC-8, David Amicus wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-8, Zev wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
    on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".

    Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
    But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
    killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing. Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to DKleinecke on Tue Jan 26 12:36:24 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 7:40:03 PM UTC+2, DKleinecke wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 3:50:02 PM UTC-8, David Amicus wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-8, Zev wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".

    Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
    But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
    killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.

    It is against the Quranic verse that the each person is reesponsible
    for his own sins and not those of others.

    It is also usually against the Quranic burden of proof for adultery
    (since it is high people circumvent it by taking it up
    for themslves.

    Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...

    No "honor killings" among say Catholic Sicilians?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Tue Jan 26 12:39:01 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:00:02 PM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-8, DKleinecke wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 3:50:02 PM UTC-8, David Amicus wrote:
    On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-8, Zev wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:10:03 AM UTC+2, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
    On 1/8/2016 6:36 PM, David Amicus wrote:

    Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
    on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be motivated by it.

    Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.

    But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".

    Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
    But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing. Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...

    Right! Many things are cultural and not religious like female

    It is completely unkown in many Muslims lands. But it is widely
    practiced by Christian and animist Africans, as well as Muslim
    Africans.

    circumcision. Years ago in my community there was a Sikh honor killing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catherine Jefferson@21:1/5 to DKleinecke on Tue Jan 26 15:01:00 2016
    On 1/26/2016 9:31 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
    Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
    But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
    killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing. Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...

    Definitely. And media in the US and Europe tend to be ignorant, not
    just about Islam, but about religions in general -- both what they teach
    and how believers interpret and put those things into practice. Blaming
    all Muslims for Isis is the same sort of sheer idiocy that blaming (say)
    all Catholics for pedophile priests would be. The thing is, I know of
    plenty of people in the media and other prominent public roles that
    blame the Catholic Church and its members, not just for tolerating the pedophiles, but for their crimes.

    When there are just a few ignorant people shouting, you can ignore them.
    Not when there's a large number of prominent people and they're all
    screaming. When that happens, *everybody* needs to speak up or you'll
    have a lynch mob on your hands. I'm afraid that's what's happening at
    present in America and much of Europe towards Muslims. :(

    I wish I were a better public speaker these days. <wry grin>


    --
    Catherine Jefferson <tw86034@ergosphere.net>
    Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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