JTEM is my hero wrote:
How can you tell a Mammoth "Kill Site" from simply
a butchering site.
The difference?
In the former they killed the Mammoth -- hence "Kill
Site" -- while in the latter it could just be the fortunate
find of a recently killed animal... maybe even one
killed by a predator.
So how do you tell?
I can think of a few things. Multiple butchered individuals at a site
would indicate a kill. Weapon, as opposed to tool, marks on the bones,
e.g.. an embedded spear point, would indicate a kill. Any way to infer
cause of death might be indicative. How about you?
How can you tell a Mammoth "Kill Site" from simply
a butchering site.
The difference?
In the former they killed the Mammoth -- hence "Kill
Site" -- while in the latter it could just be the fortunate
find of a recently killed animal... maybe even one
killed by a predator.
So how do you tell?
On 2/12/23 8:02 PM, JTEM is my hero wrote:
How can you tell a Mammoth "Kill Site" from simply
a butchering site.
The difference?
In the former they killed the Mammoth -- hence "Kill
Site" -- while in the latter it could just be the fortunate
find of a recently killed animal... maybe even one
killed by a predator.
So how do you tell?I can think of a few things. Multiple butchered individuals at a site
would indicate a kill. Weapon, as opposed to tool, marks on the bones,
e.g.. an embedded spear point, would indicate a kill. Any way to infer
cause of death might be indicative. How about you?
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 4:25:22 AM UTC, John Harshman wrote:In Proceedings of the International Conference on Mammoth Site Studies (Vol. 22, p. 11e26). University of Kansas, Publications in Anthropology Lawrence, Kansas.
On 2/12/23 8:02 PM, JTEM is my hero wrote:
I can think of a few things. Multiple butchered individuals at a site
How can you tell a Mammoth "Kill Site" from simply
a butchering site.
The difference?
In the former they killed the Mammoth -- hence "Kill
Site" -- while in the latter it could just be the fortunate
find of a recently killed animal... maybe even one
killed by a predator.
So how do you tell?
would indicate a kill. Weapon, as opposed to tool, marks on the bones,
e.g.. an embedded spear point, would indicate a kill. Any way to infer
cause of death might be indicative. How about you?
seems about right - here's a study that found "at least" bones of seven animals, together with four spear points; Frison, G. C., & Todd, L. (2001). The Colby mammoth kill site 48WA322: hunting mammoths; and experiments with Clovis tools and weaponry.
seems about right - here's a study that found "at least" bones of seven animals, together with four spear points; Frison, G. C., & Todd, L. (2001). The Colby mammoth kill site 48WA322: hunting mammoths; and experiments with Clovis tools and weaponry.In Proceedings of the International Conference on Mammoth Site Studies (Vol. 22, p. 11e26). University of Kansas, Publications in Anthropology Lawrence, Kansas.
I recall reading something quite a few years ago in which
the claim was made that Clovis points seemed to be designed
specifically for killing large animals, in much the same way
that a modern .600 Nitro Express would be evaluated as
designed for killing elephants, not rabbits or even deer.
On 2/14/23 10:17 AM, JTEM is my hero wrote:
Bob Casanova wrote:
I recall reading something quite a few years ago in which
the claim was made that Clovis points seemed to be designed
specifically for killing large animals, in much the same way
that a modern .600 Nitro Express would be evaluated as
designed for killing elephants, not rabbits or even deer.
Doing the Google, the size of the points vary widely, as you
might expect, but typically they are maybe 4 inches -- only a
little bigger than your penis before your erectile disfunction
set in -- and that's not even close to optimum for hunting an
adult black bear.
For large game you want long, thin points. The spear shaft
acts as a lever, and I apologize if my use of "Shaft" excites
you, so it's not just stabbing but cutting a huge swath,
maximizing internal injury & blood loss.
...jam a point into an animal the size of an elephant
and maybe it'll ignore you, maybe it'll stomp you like an
over ripe tomato and maybe it'll die... two weeks later from
infection.
I've found videos online of men ambush hunting bears with
the kind of point I describe here. One took seconds, not a
minute, to kill the bear, the other didn't record the time but
claimed that the bear was just about sliced in half!
Again, the spear shaft <Giggle> acts as a level. Just thrust
it in <!> and the more the animal moves the more that level
works the wound open, larger. The longest blades work best.
I see we have reached the end of the serious question period. That was
brief.
Bob Casanova wrote:
I recall reading something quite a few years ago in which
the claim was made that Clovis points seemed to be designed
specifically for killing large animals, in much the same way
that a modern .600 Nitro Express would be evaluated as
designed for killing elephants, not rabbits or even deer.
Doing the Google, the size of the points vary widely, as you
might expect, but typically they are maybe 4 inches -- only a
little bigger than your penis before your erectile disfunction
set in -- and that's not even close to optimum for hunting an
adult black bear.
For large game you want long, thin points. The spear shaft
acts as a lever, and I apologize if my use of "Shaft" excites
you, so it's not just stabbing but cutting a huge swath,
maximizing internal injury & blood loss.
...jam a point into an animal the size of an elephant
and maybe it'll ignore you, maybe it'll stomp you like an
over ripe tomato and maybe it'll die... two weeks later from
infection.
I've found videos online of men ambush hunting bears with
the kind of point I describe here. One took seconds, not a
minute, to kill the bear, the other didn't record the time but
claimed that the bear was just about sliced in half!
Again, the spear shaft <Giggle> acts as a level. Just thrust
it in <!> and the more the animal moves the more that level
works the wound open, larger. The longest blades work best.
I see
On 2/12/23 8:02 PM, JTEM is my hero wrote:
How can you tell a Mammoth "Kill Site" from simply
a butchering site.
The difference?
In the former they killed the Mammoth -- hence "Kill
Site" -- while in the latter it could just be the fortunate
find of a recently killed animal... maybe even one
killed by a predator.
So how do you tell?I can think of a few things. Multiple butchered individuals at a site
would indicate a kill. Weapon, as opposed to tool, marks on the bones,
e.g.. an embedded spear point, would indicate a kill. Any way to infer
cause of death might be indicative. How about you?
For that matter, what predator was there that
attacked mammoths and wasn't us?
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