On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 5:30:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
of Irish accents become his normal way of speaking. It's noticeable that in all the cases mentioned, the accent that appeared was one the patient could be expected to have heard within their own lifetime. Nobody is reported to have gotten hit on the headA US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would anyone like to suggest an alternative?It does not seem to be the case that the person here had never even heard an Irish accent. The brain is a weird thing. People have become idiot savants after brain injury. A metastasis from his prostate cancer to his brain could have made his memories
The wikipedia article on FAS is one place to get started looking for studies on the mechanisms.The PDF is free to download; just search for the article title on Google Scholar and you'll get the link to the full text.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_accent_syndrome
And here's a more detailed review of the pathology (PDF is free to download)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021992418300236
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after beingIt does not seem to be the case that the person here had never even heard an Irish accent. The brain is a weird thing. People have become idiot savants after brain injury. A metastasis from his prostate cancer to his brain could have made his memories of
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
That's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent. In foreign accented English, anyway, there is often just a single characteristic that native speakers notice, say trilled "r"s , substitution of "z" for "th" (in French
accented English), or retroflexed (rather than dental) "d"s and "t"s (in South Asian accented English). If any one of those changes is induced by
a motor aphasia, people hearing the altered speech may hear it as a
foreign accent, when it is really only altered speech that happens to use
one of the salient features of the foreign accent, while not really being similar in other respects to that accent.
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would anyone like to suggest an alternative?
My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
So "between 1941 and 2009 there were 62 recorded cases" says
Wikipedia. That is extremely rare ... almost as rare as water allergy. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[Â…]
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[Â…]
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
of "z" for "th" (in French accented English), or retroflexed (rather than dental) "d"s and "t"s (in South Asian accented English). If any one of those changes is induced by a motor aphasia, people hearing the altered speech may hear it as a foreignA US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would anyone like to suggest an alternative?
My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation because of damage to their health (but not commonly). SometimesThat's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent. In foreign accented English, anyway, there is often just a single characteristic that native speakers notice, say trilled "r"s , substitution
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more rarely).
So "between 1941 and 2009 there were 62 recorded cases" says
Wikipedia. That is extremely rare ... almost as rare as water allergy. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria>
[ … ]
I met a fellow in a pub in Edinburgh who was very difficult to
understand as his accent was so thick. He was being very friendly
though and just kept talking to me. After about five minutes the bar
keep walked up to me and in a more recognizable Edinburgh accent says,
"we don't all talk like that, he's got a speech impediment, but he's
not mentally defective or anything, otherwise he'd sound like a
Glaswegian."
On 2023-02-20 17:26:43 +0000, Lawyer Daggett said:
Something I've always found striking is that although Edinburgh andI met a fellow in a pub in Edinburgh who was very difficult to
[ … ]
understand as his accent was so thick. He was being very friendly
though and just kept talking to me. After about five minutes the bar
keep walked up to me and in a more recognizable Edinburgh accent says,
"we don't all talk like that, he's got a speech impediment, but he's
not mentally defective or anything, otherwise he'd sound like a Glaswegian."
Glasgow are fairly close to one another (about 80 km or 50 miles) they
are completely different in many ways (like my twin grandchildren):
very different accents, different sorts of people, different weather (Edinburgh is cold and more or less dry; Glasgow is much less cold and
it rains a lot).
--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that brainA US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[匽
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[匽
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would anyone like to suggest an alternative?Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in the
Darwin’s gemmules form a backdrop for the plot of *The Daughter of Doctor Moreau* by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. That gemmules are no longer taken
seriously makes the book a little problematic, but I haven’t reached the end so maybe something else is involved. I haven’t read Wells’ Moreau book.
On 2023-02-20 17:26:43 +0000, Lawyer Daggett said:
Something I've always found striking is that although Edinburgh andI met a fellow in a pub in Edinburgh who was very difficult to
[ … ]
understand as his accent was so thick. He was being very friendly
though and just kept talking to me. After about five minutes the bar
keep walked up to me and in a more recognizable Edinburgh accent says,
"we don't all talk like that, he's got a speech impediment, but he's
not mentally defective or anything, otherwise he'd sound like a Glaswegian."
Glasgow are fairly close to one another (about 80 km or 50 miles) they
are completely different in many ways (like my twin grandchildren):
very different accents, different sorts of people, different weather (Edinburgh is cold and more or less dry; Glasgow is much less cold and
it rains a lot).
--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:50:06 PM UTC-5, Burkhard wrote:the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_(sociolinguistics)#Legal_implications
The root causes of FAS, it seems to me, are loosely related to
the origins of regional accents which is a tendency towards
"defective" pronunciation.
Defective here would include things--
like dropping r's, or failures to fully articulate certain sounds.
There seems to be come combination of symptoms and causes
that create a series of related and yet distinct pathologies. In
particular, with for example stroke victims there can be partial
failures to regain control of muscles involved in articulation
but there can also be types of aphasia where a speaker no
longer recognizes the actual need (or process) to articulate
some sounds.
So that a stroke or other traumatic brain injury would leave
someone with altered speech patterns is not surprising. What
is interesting is the convergence of some of these patterns
to what we perceive as accents. Regional accents just happen
to do a similar thing in as much as discounting the significance
of articulating certain sounds. Why? Perhaps it runs like drift
in evolution. Youngsters imitate what they hear (and as they
age some get playful with language to put a further twist on
things). Of course there's ingression from people whose speech
patterns were developed elsewhere. And we've had fine debates
of whether or not we are in a time of great homogenization due
to mass media, or if we are continuing to create variation (albeit
with some local 'species' going extinct). Fun stuff.
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 5:30:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
It does not seem to be the case that the person here had never even heard an Irish accent.
The brain is a weird thing. People have become idiot savants after brain injury. A metastasis from his prostate cancer to his brain could have made his memories of Irish accents become his normal way of speaking. It's noticeable that in all the casesmentioned, the accent that appeared was one the patient could be expected to have heard within their own lifetime. Nobody is reported to have gotten hit on the head and then started speaking in langue-d'Oc or Middle Chinese, though such language
The wikipedia article on FAS is one place to get started looking for studies on the mechanisms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_accent_syndrome
And here's a more detailed review of the pathology (PDF is free to download)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021992418300236
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that brain
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in the
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
That's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent.
In foreign accented English, anyway, there is often just a single characteristic that native speakers notice, say trilled "r"s , substitution of "z" for "th" (in French accented English), or retroflexed (rather than dental) "d"s and "t"s (in South Asianaccented English). If any one of those changes is induced by a motor aphasia, people hearing the altered speech may hear it as a foreign accent, when it is really only altered speech that happens to use one of the salient features of the foreign accent,
So "between 1941 and 2009 there were 62 recorded cases" says
Wikipedia. That is extremely rare ... almost as rare as water allergy.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria>
*Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
Finished the audio today. Wonder if it will become a movie. Her *Mexican >Gothic* may become a series:
Darwin’s gemmules form a backdrop for the plot of *The Daughter of Doctor
Moreau* by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. That gemmules are no longer taken
seriously makes the book a little problematic, but I haven’t reached the
end so maybe something else is involved. I haven’t read Wells’ Moreau book. >>
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12929864/
Here Moreno-Garcia fleshes out the historic backdrop for her >recontextualization of Wells’ story:
https://lithub.com/bad-seeds-and-mad-scientists-on-the-build-a-humans-of-19th-century-literature/
She’s got an interest in eugenics and criminology. She links this
disturbing video featuring Julian Huxley contrasting accomplished and >“defective” seed families and how the latter allegedly outbreed the former. >Shows who I assume is Sir John Gielgud as a fine specimen:
https://collections.nlm.nih.gov/catalog/nlm:nlmuid-101514101-vid
Puts this clip into a different light:
https://youtu.be/GQUE4EODvAM
Since Martin has expressed an interest in medical ethics before this might >dovetail with that a bit.
*The Daughter of Doctor Moreau* also touches upon a system of debt peonage >used by hacienda owners against native laborers. There’s also some Yucatan >Caste War I know nothing about.
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:24:54 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com" ><brogers31751@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 5:30:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
It does not seem to be the case that the person here had never even heard an Irish accent.
Nobody suggested that was the case.
On the contrary, the articlementioned, the accent that appeared was one the patient could be expected to have heard within their own lifetime. Nobody is reported to have gotten hit on the head and then started speaking in langue-d'Oc or Middle Chinese, though such language
specifically states that he lived in England in his 20s and had
friends and distant family members from Ireland.
The brain is a weird thing. People have become idiot savants after brain injury. A metastasis from his prostate cancer to his brain could have made his memories of Irish accents become his normal way of speaking. It's noticeable that in all the cases
The wikipedia article on FAS is one place to get started looking for studies on the mechanisms.
It is not the *mechanisms* that intrigues me about this, it is where
the memories come from. I have considerable experience of family
members moving abroad and acquiring an accent of the country in which
they have settled and also of people immigrating into Ireland from
other countries and acquiring an Irish accent. In every case, the new
accent was acquired after a significant amount of time and substantial
direct immersion in the accent. For example, my brother and his wife
moved to Canada in their twenties over 40 years ago; they live in an
area with few Irish people and are constantly exposed to Canadian
accents; they have both now acquired quite strong Canadian accents. On
the other hand, my wife's cousins moved to Birmingham (UK) as children
over 40 years ago, but they lived in an area dominated by an Irish
community and despite their exposure to Brummie accents outside that >community, they never lost their Irish accents.
I find it unconvincing that such a strong accent could be formed from
distant memories of occasional exposure to an accent as in the case of
the man in that article and in other examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_accent_syndrome
And here's a more detailed review of the pathology (PDF is free to download) >>
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021992418300236
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhardthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
<b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >>>> accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average >person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press
reports at face value.
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The
paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led
you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 13:24:31 -0800 (PST), the followingthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Lawyer Daggett ><j.nobel.daggett@gmail.com>:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:50:06 PM UTC-5, Burkhard wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >>> > accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
ISTM that "defective" is in the mind of the beholder; all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_(sociolinguistics)#Legal_implications
The root causes of FAS, it seems to me, are loosely related to
the origins of regional accents which is a tendency towards
"defective" pronunciation.
regional accents are "defective" in the opinion of speakers
of other regional accents. Of course, one's particular
accent is, the only "correct" one; arrogance is pervasive.
Defective here would include things
like dropping r's, or failures to fully articulate certain sounds.
There seems to be come combination of symptoms and causes
that create a series of related and yet distinct pathologies. In >>particular, with for example stroke victims there can be partial
failures to regain control of muscles involved in articulation
but there can also be types of aphasia where a speaker no
longer recognizes the actual need (or process) to articulate
some sounds.
So that a stroke or other traumatic brain injury would leave
someone with altered speech patterns is not surprising. What
is interesting is the convergence of some of these patterns
to what we perceive as accents. Regional accents just happen
to do a similar thing in as much as discounting the significance
of articulating certain sounds. Why? Perhaps it runs like drift
in evolution. Youngsters imitate what they hear (and as they
age some get playful with language to put a further twist on
things). Of course there's ingression from people whose speech
patterns were developed elsewhere. And we've had fine debates
of whether or not we are in a time of great homogenization due
to mass media, or if we are continuing to create variation (albeit
with some local 'species' going extinct). Fun stuff.
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 06:37:14 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com" <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation >> because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >> > researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >> > nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >> > speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >> > accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >> > Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
That's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent.Authors of the paper referred to in the article above:
Amanda Broderick, Senior Assistant Resident Medicine at the Department
of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Matthew Kyle Labriola, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the
Department of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Dr. Neal Shore, U.S. Chief Medical Officer of Surgery and Oncology, GenesisCare USA; Director, CPI, Carolina Urologic Research Center
Andrew John Armstrong, Professor of Medicine, Professor in Surgery, Professor in Pharmacology and Cancer Biology at the Department of
Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine.
Have you any particular reason for thinking that such highly qualified researchers would have made such an elementary error?
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Majorthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >>>>> researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >>>>> with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >>>>> nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >>>>> speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >>>>> her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >>>>> accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >>>>> Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >>>>> anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average
person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press
reports at face value.
I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The
paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led
you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655
What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 06:37:14 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com" <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:.................
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, 嘱 Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation >> because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >> > researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >> > nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >> > speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >> > accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >> > Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
That's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent.Authors of the paper referred to in the article above:
Amanda Broderick, Senior Assistant Resident Medicine at the Department
of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Matthew Kyle Labriola, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the
Department of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Dr. Neal Shore, U.S. Chief Medical Officer of Surgery and Oncology, GenesisCare USA; Director, CPI, Carolina Urologic Research Center
Andrew John Armstrong, Professor of Medicine, Professor in Surgery, Professor in Pharmacology and Cancer Biology at the Department of
Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine.
Have you any particular reason for thinking that such highly qualified researchers would have made such an elementary error?Sure. I think they made the error. None of them are neurologists or speech pathologists or linguists or experts in aphasia. WHen such experts have carefully examined cases of FAS, they come to the conclusion that the speech is altered, a change in rhythm
Asian accented English). If any one of those changes is induced by a motor aphasia, people hearing the altered speech may hear it as a foreign accent, when it is really only altered speech that happens to use one of the salient features of the foreignIn foreign accented English, anyway, there is often just a single characteristic that native speakers notice, say trilled "r"s , substitution of "z" for "th" (in French accented English), or retroflexed (rather than dental) "d"s and "t"s (in South
So "between 1941 and 2009 there were 62 recorded cases" says
Wikipedia. That is extremely rare ... almost as rare as water allergy.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria>
On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 11:05:07 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:Yes, my mistake. Their article is pay-walled so I only have the abstract to go on. They may have been perfectly clear about the speech pathology and the consensus explanation for FAS in the full article, and just sensationalized their abstract a bit.
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 06:37:14 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com" <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 8:15:09 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 12:30:06 UTC+2, Martin Harran wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >My reading to it is that sometimes people gain defects of pronunciation >> because of damage to their health (but not commonly). Sometimes
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >> > researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >> > with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >> > it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >> > nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >> > it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death >> > months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >> > speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >> > her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >> > Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally >> > been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >> > anyone like to suggest an alternative?
those gained defects sound similar to some foreign accent (but more
rarely).
That's a good point. Those who are hearing the altered speech may be interpreting it incorrectly as an accent.Authors of the paper referred to in the article above:
Amanda Broderick, Senior Assistant Resident Medicine at the Department
of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Matthew Kyle Labriola, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the
Department of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine
Dr. Neal Shore, U.S. Chief Medical Officer of Surgery and Oncology, GenesisCare USA; Director, CPI, Carolina Urologic Research Center
Andrew John Armstrong, Professor of Medicine, Professor in Surgery, Professor in Pharmacology and Cancer Biology at the Department of Medicine, Duke University School of Medicine.
Have you any particular reason for thinking that such highly qualified researchers would have made such an elementary error?
It is not even error of theirs. It can be error of some journal putting more sensation into the facts that there actually was.
During 2 human generations among billions of people there were 62 cases where combination of gained pronunciation defects was specific enough
for medical specialists to perceive that as distinct foreign accent.
Doctors simply tell what they observe and that is not lie or error but also should not be taken as opinion of linguist. No one said anywhere that the patients started to use foreign metaphors or phrases in mix, like
Irish "What's the craic?" ... it was just an accent.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Majorthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >>>> researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >>>> with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >>>> nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death >>>> months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >>>> speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >>>> her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >>>> accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >>>> Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally >>>> been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >>>> anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average >person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press >reports at face value.
I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The >paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led >you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
On 21/02/2023 10:50, Martin Harran wrote:
To answer your question, a difference is that Irish accent may have a
What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
broader application than Irish brogue - Ulster Scots Irish, and any
remnants of Yola and Fingalian, might fall into the former but not the latter.
--athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhardthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Just an aside. I was completely unable to detect that my mother had an
Irish accent (Dublin, in her case) when I was growing up, and used to be surprised when adults said that she had. It only became obvious to me
when I was about 20 and had occasion to hear her often on the telephone.
I was talking to my sister about this the other day and she said that
her recollection was the same. In general I'm sceptical when people
untrained in speech therapy make pronouncements about accents.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Majorthe Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >>>> researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >>>> with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >>>> nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death >>>> months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >>>> speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >>>> her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange >>>> accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >>>> Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally >>>> been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >>>> anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders in
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average >person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press >reports at face value.
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The >paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led >you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 5:55:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:in the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >>>> researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >>>> with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years. >>>>
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >>>> nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death >>>> months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >>>> speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >>>> her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice. >>>>
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian >>>> woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow >>>> contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most >>>> scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into >>>> some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >>>> Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally >>>> been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >>>> anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it >> as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists; >I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average >person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their >qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press >reports at face value.I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the >patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The >paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led >you to think that it does.
I happened across two things related to this discussion.https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
The first is rather technical but emphasizes how various changes
in speech patterns after a stroke are characterized. This includes difficulty in articulating certain sounds in includes the context of
speech therapy techniques. It gives people new types of feedback
to help retrain themselves, in this case focused on ways to pronounce
r sounds.
This is significant respective to accents where differences in
articulation, very often including that of r sounds, plays strong
role in what people recognize as certain accents. But wait, there's
more.
Here's a cute little video that helps explain these differences in
a fun way. Together, I think they help bolster the most plausible
(and generally best accepted) reasons behind FAS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjf_MOyB0K4&t=416s
This would have been better on talk-like-a-pirate day, but I didn't
want to wait.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), BurkhardMurders in the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:05:13?PM UTC, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 5:55:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >> > On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from >> > >>>> Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years. >> > >>>>
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >> > >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >> > >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >> > >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >> > >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the >> > >>>> unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice. >> > >>>>
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian >> > >>>> woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel >> > >>>> during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow >> > >>>> contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most >> > >>>> scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into >> > >>>> some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The
I happened across two things related to this discussion.I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals >> > >> whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average
person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press >> > >reports at face value.
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The >> > >paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led
you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
The first is rather technical but emphasizes how various changes
in speech patterns after a stroke are characterized. This includes
difficulty in articulating certain sounds in includes the context of
speech therapy techniques. It gives people new types of feedback
to help retrain themselves, in this case focused on ways to pronounce
r sounds.
This is significant respective to accents where differences in
articulation, very often including that of r sounds, plays strong
role in what people recognize as certain accents. But wait, there's
more.
Here's a cute little video that helps explain these differences in
a fun way. Together, I think they help bolster the most plausible
(and generally best accepted) reasons behind FAS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjf_MOyB0K4&t=416s
This would have been better on talk-like-a-pirate day, but I didn't
want to wait.
what a find! Been binge watching her all day, thanks! Scots of course kept the hard "r" :o)By a funny coincidence, I was watching this episode of Only Fools and
Horses [1] on Saturday. Del Boy takes on the task of providing the entertainment for a party for a local violent thug. He uses his
girlfriend Raquel and a singer called Tony who does Elvis impressions
and suchlike. The only problem is, he has a limited repertoire as he
cannot pronounce his R's. Guess what song Del Boy (who doesn't know
about his limitations) picks for him to sing ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUBnsqGbgBQ
[1] One of the funniest BBC series ever produced. Derek Trotter aka
'Del Boy' is a market trader who fancies himself as a serious
entrepreneur. Everything he tries inevitably goes wrong but his
ambition is irrepressible.
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:05:13?PM UTC, Lawyer Daggett wrote:in the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which means that
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 5:55:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >>>>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland, >> > >>>> researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted >> > >>>> with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from
Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years.
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >> > >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and >> > >>>> nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant
family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously
spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually >> > >>>> became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that >> > >>>> it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death >> > >>>> months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the
unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they >> > >>>> speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that >> > >>>> her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice.
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian
woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel
during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow
contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most
scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into
some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to >> > >>>> Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally >> > >>>> been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would >> > >>>> anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The Murders
I happened across two things related to this discussion.I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals
whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it >> > >> as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists; >> > >I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average >> > >person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press
reports at face value.
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The
paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led >> > >you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
The first is rather technical but emphasizes how various changes
in speech patterns after a stroke are characterized. This includes
difficulty in articulating certain sounds in includes the context of
speech therapy techniques. It gives people new types of feedback
to help retrain themselves, in this case focused on ways to pronounce
r sounds.
This is significant respective to accents where differences in
articulation, very often including that of r sounds, plays strong
role in what people recognize as certain accents. But wait, there's
more.
Here's a cute little video that helps explain these differences in
a fun way. Together, I think they help bolster the most plausible
(and generally best accepted) reasons behind FAS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjf_MOyB0K4&t=416s
This would have been better on talk-like-a-pirate day, but I didn't
want to wait.
what a find! Been binge watching her all day, thanks! Scots of course kept the hard "r" :o)
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 7:25:12?PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:Murders in the Rue Morgue, where all witnesses identified the speaker as "foreign", but with vastly different ideas where he came from). There are physical constraints on both our production of sound, and our ability to discern sound patterns, which
On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:05:13?PM UTC, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 5:55:06 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >> >> > On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 10:12:39 +0000, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/02/2023 09:06, Martin Harran wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), Burkhard
<b.sc...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:06 AM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671894
*US cancer patient developed 'uncontrollable' Irish accent*
A US man developed an "uncontrollable Irish accent" after being
diagnosed with prostate cancer, despite having never visited Ireland,
researchers say.
The North Carolina man, who was in his 50s, was presumably afflicted
with foreign accent syndrome (FAS), the British Medical Journal
reports.
The rare syndrome gave the man, who had no immediate family from >> >> > >>>> Ireland, a "brogue" that remained until his death.
Several similar cases have been recorded globally in recent years. >> >> > >>>>
[?
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >> >> > >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >> >> > >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Much of the man's identifying characteristics, including his name and
nationality, were not included in the report.
It says he lived in England in his 20s and had friends and distant >> >> > >>>> family members from Ireland. But they add he had never previously >> >> > >>>> spoken with the foreign accent.
"His accent was uncontrollable, present in all settings and gradually
became persistent," the researchers say in their report, adding that
it first began 20 months into his treatment.
Even as his condition worsened, the accent remained until his death
months later.
[?
Other people who have suffered FAS have described to the BBC the >> >> > >>>> unsettling feeling of hearing a "stranger in the house" whenever they
speak.
In 2006, UK woman Linda Walker suffered a stroke and discovered that
her Geordie accent had been replaced by a Jamaican-sounding voice. >> >> > >>>>
One of the first reported cases was in 1941 when a young Norwegian >> >> > >>>> woman developed a German accent after being hit by bomb shrapnel >> >> > >>>> during a Second World War air raid.
She was shunned by locals who thought she was a Nazi spy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only think of two potential explanations for where these strange
accents came from:
An internal solution: memories of previous existences are somehow >> >> > >>>> contained within our DNA. That, however, would open the door to
validating past life regression which, AFAIUI, is rejected by most >> >> > >>>> scientists.
An external explanation: people who experience it are tapping into >> >> > >>>> some external stream of consciousness but that would open the door to
Rupert Sheldrake's concept of morphic resonance which has generally
been dismissed as pseudoscience.
If neither of those are acceptable as a potential explanation, would
anyone like to suggest an alternative?
Obviously, "Oirish" is the factory setting accent, to which the system reverts upon reboot ((a.k.a. stroke) ;o)
More seriously, it's a fascinating topic, I always wanted to look more into it if only I could find a legal angle. But some of the effect may simply be in the ear of the beholder (a bit like in the famous Edgar Allan Poe crime story, The
By a funny coincidence, I was watching this episode of Only Fools andI happened across two things related to this discussion.I would, however, expect such highly qualified researcher to be well
Yeah but this was case involving four highly qualified professionals >> >> > >> whose paper was deemed worthy of publication by the BMJ. Dismissing it
as them all mishearing the patient seems a bit weak.
Firstly, highly qualified clinicians are not highly qualified linguists;
I don't see any reason to expect them to be any better than the average
person at interpreting speech patterns. Appealing to their
qualifications seems a rather weak justification for taking the press >> >> > >reports at face value.
aware of the folly of jumping to superficial conclusions.
What do you see as the significant difference between an Irish
Secondly, while the paper is paywalled, the abstract describes the
patient as developing an "Irish brogue" (quotes in the original). The >> >> > >paper would appear not to make the claim that the press reports have led
you to think that it does.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/16/1/e251655
"brogue" and an Irish "accent"?
The first is rather technical but emphasizes how various changes
in speech patterns after a stroke are characterized. This includes
difficulty in articulating certain sounds in includes the context of
speech therapy techniques. It gives people new types of feedback
to help retrain themselves, in this case focused on ways to pronounce
r sounds.
This is significant respective to accents where differences in
articulation, very often including that of r sounds, plays strong
role in what people recognize as certain accents. But wait, there's
more.
Here's a cute little video that helps explain these differences in
a fun way. Together, I think they help bolster the most plausible
(and generally best accepted) reasons behind FAS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjf_MOyB0K4&t=416s
This would have been better on talk-like-a-pirate day, but I didn't
want to wait.
what a find! Been binge watching her all day, thanks! Scots of course kept the hard "r" :o)
Horses [1] on Saturday. Del Boy takes on the task of providing the
entertainment for a party for a local violent thug. He uses his
girlfriend Raquel and a singer called Tony who does Elvis impressions
and suchlike. The only problem is, he has a limited repertoire as he
cannot pronounce his R's. Guess what song Del Boy (who doesn't know
about his limitations) picks for him to sing ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUBnsqGbgBQ
[1] One of the funniest BBC series ever produced. Derek Trotter aka
'Del Boy' is a market trader who fancies himself as a serious
entrepreneur. Everything he tries inevitably goes wrong but his
ambition is irrepressible.
Raquel, you can do so much better than Del Boy! :o) (did I have a mild crush on Tessa Peake-Jones? I might have.
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