#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population.
No, sorry, this is fact.
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope.
Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/716003746293923841
#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope. Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
Have you considered the possibility that the numt in question was introgressed from Neandertals or Denisovans, i.e. that the numt
originated in Eurasia but the rest of the genome did not?
Has anyone ever diagnosed you as paranoid?
Secondly, there were five points raised, so even if they fake find
some mtDNA tomorrow it can't change the other four. And I'm
not claiming I presented an exhaustive list.
It's just plain NOT how reality works. We're dealing with a proverbial
"Big Picture" here, not a pixel.
That was the one I had a question about.
John Harshman wrote:
Have you considered the possibility that the numt in question was
introgressed from Neandertals or Denisovans, i.e. that the numt
originated in Eurasia but the rest of the genome did not?
Given the ferocity in which they shove the Out of Africa purity
nonsense onto us, they will no doubt eventually "Find" the mtDNA
line in Neanderthals and/or Denisovans exactly the same way they
have never tried to claim before.
Considering how common it is throughout Eurasia, they should
also fake find it in Neanderthals...
Secondly, there were five points raised, so even if they fake find
some mtDNA tomorrow it can't change the other four. And I'm
not claiming I presented an exhaustive list.
It's just plain NOT how reality works. We're dealing with a proverbial
"Big Picture" here, not a pixel.
John Harshman wrote:
Has anyone ever diagnosed you as paranoid?
lol!
If you had been the real Harpman you'd remember how I was debunking
the fake "no interbreeding" claims years before you accepted it. And I
do mean debunking it: Deconstructing the claims against it.
So if you weren't certifiable, if you weren't a sock puppet, you'd know
what a fucking idiot someone would have to be to talk the way you
do...
Secondly, there were five points raised, so even if they fake find
some mtDNA tomorrow it can't change the other four. And I'm
not claiming I presented an exhaustive list.
It's just plain NOT how reality works. We're dealing with a proverbial
"Big Picture" here, not a pixel.
That was the one I had a question about.
No. You rationalized. There is a difference.
If you had any questions you'd question how it could even be possible
that, if it were the result of interbreeding, we haven't found it already
in any of the DNA testing of Neanderthal and Denisovan remains.
Has anyone looked?
Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe). Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data), Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope. Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
John Harshman wrote:
Has anyone looked?
You're asking if anyone has looked for Denisovan or Neanderthal DNA?
Is that correct?
Or are you asking if anyone has ever "Looked" to see how it compares
to modern DNA... maybe through it in the same database or something?
Is that your question?
Let me know which question you're asking while pretending you're not
a raging narcissist trying to obfuscate. I'm really intrigued. Well. Not *Really* but I'm giving you an opportunity to bone up on sarcasm here.
REMINDER: I raised five points. The troll is focusing tightly on one, misunderstanding & misrepresenting it, and pretending this addresses
the other four when it doesn't even counter the one.
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote:
Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
JTEM is doing quite nicely against Harshman, but you aren't
helping him here with your digressions.
#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
Look up all the other Miocene apes in the cladogram at the bottom of the following webpage, and weep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Earlier, the "reasoning" you gave for this is that we have no fossils of Pliocene Homo in Africa.
Later, you admitted that we have NO fossils of Pliocene Homo in ASIA either. You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman.
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe).
Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
And those in turn were descended from an African population.
So this was a digression.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data),
Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
The usual regurgitated laziness. :-(
Fortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope. Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
The one weakness is the connection between coastal dispersal
and the claim that it began in Asia rather than Africa. I doubt
that Harshman has the diligence to figure this out on his own.
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote:
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
I'm asking if anyone has looked for the Chromosome 11 numt in Neandertal
or Denisovan DNA.
If you think that's the one weakness, you aren't thinking. I don't think
any of those points can be defended if examined closely. Why don't you
try that with one of them?
John Harshman wrote:
I'm asking if anyone has looked for the Chromosome 11 numt in Neandertal
or Denisovan DNA.
So what you're asking is if anyone looked at Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA,
as the comparison to modern human DNA is just something we can go
ahead & assume... if they ever bothered to look for Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA.
AND you're pretending to NOT be a sick troll attempting to obfuscate!
So, quite literally, you have no argument. You read the five points I raised, you
have absolutely nothing to say in rebuttal so you're pulling the usual.
So what you're asking is if anyone looked at Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA,
Nope. That's not in
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
John Harshman wrote:
So what you're asking is if anyone looked at Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA,
Nope. That's not in
It's the question. That is what you're asking. You want to know if anyone looked
for Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA. Because if they did then they know what
it looks like, how it compares to our own -- what is shares in common with us and what it does not.
This is reality. And you're so fucked up you're asking if anyone everI'm asking a very specific and relevant question, and you refuse to answer.
thought to look at Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA, even as you pretend
that you're not asking this.
JTEM is my hero wrote:
It's the question. That is what you're asking. You want to know if anyone looked
for Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA. Because if they did then they know what it looks like, how it compares to our own -- what is shares in common with us
and what it does not.
Still not the question.
John Harshman wrote:
JTEM is my hero wrote:
It's the question. That is what you're asking. You want to know if anyone looked
for Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA. Because if they did then they know what >>> it looks like, how it compares to our own -- what is shares in common with us
and what it does not.
Still not the question.
Of course it is. The set {DNA} includes {NUMT}. The only one on earth mentally
unhinged enough to pretend otherwise is you. So, nobody else being you, you are asking is anyone ever looked at Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA.
You could avoid looking so stupid by trying to overcome your advanced Narcissistic
Personality Disorder, STOP obfuscating and looking at all five points together.
Of course it is. The set {DNA} includes {NUMT}. The only one on earth mentally
unhinged enough to pretend otherwise is you.
That's like saying "Have you read War and Peace?" is the same as "Does Napoleon appear on page 377 of War and Peace?".
John Harshman wrote:
Of course it is. The set {DNA} includes {NUMT}. The only one on earth mentally
unhinged enough to pretend otherwise is you.
That's like saying "Have you read War and Peace?" is the same as "Does
Napoleon appear on page 377 of War and Peace?".
No it isn't. You're simply crazy.
You're not making an argument here, because you're simply obfuscating the
way you clinical narcissists always do.
If you want to argue that Neanderthals and/or Denisovans carry the exact
same chromosome 11 insert, you go right ahead. Nobody has stopped you.
THIS WAS YOUR EIGTH POST HERE!
It's abundantly clear that you DON'T want to make any such argument and
yet you're still obfuscating, pretending I need to "Prove" something here.
You do. Prove someone just your NUMT. Now THAT would be an "Argument"
but you ever did that. You can't. You don't even know how.
You're a raging narcissist.
JTEM is my hero wrote:
You're not making an argument here, because you're simply obfuscating the way you clinical narcissists always do.
Exactly. I'm not making an argument.
John Harshman wrote:
JTEM is my hero wrote:
You're not making an argument here, because you're simply obfuscating the >>> way you clinical narcissists always do.
Exactly. I'm not making an argument.
Exactly. You're a clinical narcissist.
Oh; 100% of all sociopaths & psychopaths are narcissists.
And you're a raging narcissist...
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote:
Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
JTEM is doing quite nicely against Harshman, but you aren't
helping him here with your digressions.
#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
Look up all the other Miocene apes in the cladogram at the bottom of the following webpage, and weep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Earlier, the "reasoning" you gave for this is that we have no fossils of Pliocene Homo in Africa.
Later, you admitted that we have NO fossils of Pliocene Homo in ASIA either.
You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman.
You seem unable to post without aiming a gratuitous insult as some third party, often me. Why is that?
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe).
Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
And those in turn were descended from an African population.
So this was a digression.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data),
Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
The usual regurgitated laziness. :-(
Fortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
Your viewpoint is highly clouded by your pathological hatred of me and embrace of anyone who dislikes me.
And you should know better than to
take JTEM's claims at face value.
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope. Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
The one weakness is the connection between coastal dispersal
and the claim that it began in Asia rather than Africa. I doubt
that Harshman has the diligence to figure this out on his own.
If you think that's the one weakness, you aren't thinking. I don't think
any of those points can be defended if examined closely. Why don't you
try that with one of them?
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
Note the specific closing phrase. This was before JTEM went on a trolling rampageFortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
about #2,
[...]#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
I don't think
any of those points can be defended if examined closely. Why don't you
try that with one of them?
If you had bothered to read what I wrote before the statement
with with you took umbrage, you would know that I have tried it
with #1 and #2.
Following up to myself to make two little corrections.
On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 11:26:48 AM UTC-4, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
Note the specific closing phrase. This was before JTEM went on a trolling rampageFortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
about #2,
Correction: about #3.
[...]#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
I don't think
any of those points can be defended if examined closely. Why don't you
try that with one of them?
If you had bothered to read what I wrote before the statement
with with you took umbrage, you would know that I have tried it
with #1 and #2.
That should just read "with #1"; my try with #2 came after
the statement with which John took umbrage. It appears
that John didn't bother to read that try either.
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote:
Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
JTEM is doing quite nicely against Harshman, but you aren't
helping him here with your digressions.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests. >>>
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
Look up all the other Miocene apes in the cladogram at the bottom of the following webpage, and weep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Earlier, the "reasoning" you gave for this is that we have no fossils of Pliocene Homo in Africa.
Later, you admitted that we have NO fossils of Pliocene Homo in ASIA either.
You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman.
You seem unable to post without aiming a gratuitous insult as some third
party, often me. Why is that?
You seem to see things that aren't there.
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe).
Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
And those in turn were descended from an African population.
So this was a digression.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data),
Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
The usual regurgitated laziness. :-(
Fortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
Note the specific closing phrase. This was before JTEM went on a trolling rampage
about #2, but I especially had #4 in mind, which you have left untouched.
Your viewpoint is highly clouded by your pathological hatred of me and
embrace of anyone who dislikes me.
You sound paranoid here. I know you've stretched your use of that word
well beyond the breaking point numerous times, but when I use it, I'm very careful to
stay within the bounds of the official definition. Here I wrote "sound" rather than "are."
And you should know better than to
take JTEM's claims at face value.
I never take them at face value. Always I look for evidence.
And once in a blue moon, he comes through, like he did on #4 in sci.bio.paleontology.
Evidence for this Eurasian origins is preserved in the
nuclear DNA, chromosome 11, where we find what
remains of an extremely ancient mtDNA line, far older
than any supposed "Mitochondrial Eve," and this line
is Eurasian.
If it's not, then the way we interpret DNA evidence is
out the window, it's completely wrong, and any hope
of using "Molecular dating" is gone forever. Sorry, but
to argue that this very ancient DNA is not very much
older than the so called "Mitochondrial Eve," or that it
does not originate outside of Africa, is to argue that
everything you've always believed about DNA is wrong.
#3. There's some very inconvenient retrovirus evidence.
Apparently African apes carry the evidence for a retrovirus
outbreak that occurred millions of years ago. Asian apes
and humans do not.
#4. We evolved under conditions where DHA was plentiful.
Our brains need DHA. It doesn't matter if you can find 6
thousand species for whom this is not true, because it
is true for us modern humans. We need DHA and whatever
adaptation that allows us to synthesize it from ALA just
plain isn't that old. The "Molecular Dating" crowd says it's
only 80k years old! So either there were no modern
humans before 80k years ago, no big brains, or our ancestors
were getting their DHA elsewhere.
NOTE: Evolutionarily speaking, the reliance on DHA had
to come before the adaptation to help synthesize it,
ESPECIALLY when you consider we're still not great at it.
#5. Coastal Dispersal.
Our ancestors did not take a train, they didn't drive a car
and they weren't even riding in a horse drawn buggy.
Nope. Our ancestors spread from Australia to southern most
Africa, and everywhere in between, following the coast.
Oh. Maybe I should add: This means they were exploiting
the sea.
There's no getting around this. None. Coastal Dispersal
requires "Aquatic Ape." They're one and the same.
Our ancestors were not in search of a Burger King. They
weren't on a scavenger hunt. It wasn't a potato sack race
either. No. They were eating. They were living there, eating.
They were consuming resources then moving on.
The one weakness is the connection between coastal dispersal
and the claim that it began in Asia rather than Africa. I doubt
that Harshman has the diligence to figure this out on his own.
I was referring only to #5 here.
If you think that's the one weakness, you aren't thinking. I don't think
any of those points can be defended if examined closely. Why don't you
try that with one of them?
If you had bothered to read what I wrote before the statement
with with you took umbrage, you would know that I have tried it
with #1 and #2.
Why don't YOU try it with #4? You are our resident expert on
molecular phylogeny, not I -- both here and in sci.bio.paleontology.
On 5/5/23 8:22 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote: >>>> Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
JTEM is doing quite nicely against Harshman, but you aren't
helping him here with your digressions.
#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
Look up all the other Miocene apes in the cladogram at the bottom of the following webpage, and weep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Earlier, the "reasoning" you gave for this is that we have no fossils of Pliocene Homo in Africa.
Later, you admitted that we have NO fossils of Pliocene Homo in ASIA either.
You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman.
You seem unable to post without aiming a gratuitous insult as some third >> party, often me. Why is that?
You seem to see things that aren't there.
So you would say that "You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman" was
not intended as an insult to me as well as JTEM?
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe). >>>> Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
And those in turn were descended from an African population.
So this was a digression.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data),
Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
The usual regurgitated laziness. :-(
Fortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
Note the specific closing phrase. This was before JTEM went on a trolling rampage
about #2, but I especially had #4 in mind, which you have left untouched.
I prefer to deal with one thing at a time,
but feel free to try it
yourself. You could ask what his support is for the claim. I would also
ask whether H. sapiens is unique among living primates in its need for
DHA, or what the distribution of such needs is.
And whether there are sources other than fish.
Your viewpoint is highly clouded by your pathological hatred of me and
embrace of anyone who dislikes me.
You sound paranoid here.
I know you've stretched your use of that word
well beyond the breaking point numerous times, but when I use it, I'm very careful to
stay within the bounds of the official definition. Here I wrote "sound" rather than "are."
I think there's ample evidence.
On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 1:05:12 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/5/23 8:22 AM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/3/23 3:19 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:10:09 PM UTC-4, marc verhaegen wrote: >>>>>> Op woensdag 3 mei 2023 om 00:16:36 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is my hero:
JTEM is doing quite nicely against Harshman, but you aren't
helping him here with your digressions.
Which ones? Sivapithecus/Ramapithecus are off the direct line of human descent.#1. Our ancestors populate the globe and they have
for a very long time. Very long. MILLIONS of years.
That's how far back our ancestors go in Asia... at the
extreme minimum.
Early-Miocene Hominoidea lived in northern Tethys Ocean coastal forests. >>>>>
Proconsul lived in Africa. In fact, almost all early Miocene Hominoidea lived in Africa.
Look up all the other Miocene apes in the cladogram at the bottom of the following webpage, and weep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Late-Miocene hominids lived in Red Sea coastal forests.
You are ignoring Sahelanthropus, which lived in central Africa, without giving any justification.
Pliocene Homo lived along the northern Indian Ocean coasts.
Earlier, the "reasoning" you gave for this is that we have no fossils of Pliocene Homo in Africa.
Later, you admitted that we have NO fossils of Pliocene Homo in ASIA either.
You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman.
You seem unable to post without aiming a gratuitous insult as some third >>>> party, often me. Why is that?
You seem to see things that aren't there.
So you would say that "You are a worse reasoner than John Harshman" was
not intended as an insult to me as well as JTEM?
You are helping me to confirm the correctness of my statement:
a rational person who hasn't seen a hopelessly biased
sampling of my posts would zero in on the asinine "You seem unable to post without..."
Just be glad I compared you *favorably* with Marc.
[Marc, not JTEM. It shouldn't be difficult to tell their styles apart.
You agreed in s.b.p. that Marc is not a troll, after all.]
Pleistocene Homo dispersed intercontinentally (Asia-Africa-Europe). >>>>>> Mid-late-Pleistocene also subtropically.
#2. Modern man descends from an Eurasian population.
Yes, even the African population in whatever "Out of
Africa" dispersals are themselves descended from an
Eurasian population. No, sorry, this is fact.
And those in turn were descended from an African population.
So this was a digression.
Hominoidea = out-of-S-Asian coasts,False, see above. [keywords: cladogram, Wikipedia]
Pliocene Homo = out-of-Red-Sea-coasts -> S.Asia (retroviral data), >>>>>> Pleistocene Homo = out-of-Ind.Ocean-coasts.
Google:
-aquarboreal
-Gondwanatalks Verhaegen :-)
The usual regurgitated laziness. :-(
Fortunately for you, JTEM is more than holding his own.
He's bearding the Harshman lion in his own den of
phylogenetic analysis of molecular data.
Note the specific closing phrase. This was before JTEM went on a trolling rampage
about #2, but I especially had #4 in mind, which you have left untouched.
I prefer to deal with one thing at a time,
That's quite a bacpkedal from the absurd thing you told JTEM:
"They need to be considered one at a time."
You've dealt with #2 in a boring, long-winded back and forth.
It's been obvious for several posts that he does not have information about that numt
being either present or absent in Neanderthals or Denisovians.
It's high time for you to switch from #2 to another point,
but you seem not to want to do it, even though both #3 and
#4 call for your knowledge of molecular phylogeny.
but feel free to try it
yourself. You could ask what his support is for the claim. I would also
ask whether H. sapiens is unique among living primates in its need for
DHA, or what the distribution of such needs is.
That last bit would be a digression to someone who has read #4.
And whether there are sources other than fish.
Read #4, thou sluggard.
Your viewpoint is highly clouded by your pathological hatred of me and >>>> embrace of anyone who dislikes me.
You sound paranoid here.
I used this word because I wanted you to get some appreciation for its correct use. But far more important is the reckless disregard of the truth about me which makes your statement clinically paranoid.
What evidence do you have that I hate you even as much as you hate me?
Just look at what you said about "embrace". The way you take one insult after another from JTEM without a murmur, while taking umbrage
against every criticism ["insult," you call them all] I make of you,
a casual reader might think you've embraced JTEM because he dislikes *me*.
I know you've stretched your use of that word
well beyond the breaking point numerous times, but when I use it, I'm very careful to
stay within the bounds of the official definition. Here I wrote "sound" rather than "are."
I think there's ample evidence.
You never provided any for the official definition, so you are either seriously deluded
or shamelessly lying about what you think. I think the latter is the correct explanation,
because you've very seriously indulged in that behavior before.
Moreover, you've posted stupid accusations of paranoia that had nothing whatsoever
to do with even a *realistic* fear of being persecuted. Would you like for me to recall a couple for you?
Phylogenetics.
There's also the retrovirus evidence. This points to humans
Our closest genetic relatives are in Africa
as well as massive
fossil evidence supporting the African origins.
You also prefer space aliens
Our closest genetic relatives are in Africa as well as massive
fossil evidence supporting the African origins.
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