• On the origin of Ediacaran fauna

    From jillery@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 27 22:42:31 2023
    <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-say-textbooks-are-wrong-about-the-origin-of-life/ar-AA1es4FE?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=49d4459279da4a03978f3b0298937286&ei=11>

    <https://tinyurl.com/4zd3uxvw>

    "Scientists Say Textbooks Are Wrong About the Origin of Life"

    The above is an exaggeration. The topic isn't the origin of life, but
    the origin of multicellular, complex, animal life during the Avalon
    Explosion. The prevailing view is that the abundance of oxygen
    accelerate the evolution of more complex life. However, a recent
    study claims the world's oceans were anoxic during that time.

    Here's a link to the article cited above:

    <https://science.ku.dk/english/press/news/2023/life-on-earth-didnt-arise-as-described-in-textbooks/>

    <https://tinyurl.com/2syt6kk5>

    Here's a link to the abstract of the paper cited above:

    <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gbi.12557> *************************************************
    Reconstructing the oxygenation history of Earth's oceans during the
    Ediacaran period (635 to 539 million years ago) has been challenging,
    and this has led to a polarizing debate about the environmental
    conditions that played host to the rise of animals. One focal point of
    this debate is the largest negative inorganic C-isotope excursion
    recognized in the geologic record, the Shuram excursion, and whether
    this relic tracks the global-scale oxygenation of Earth's deep oceans.
    [...]

    Contrary to a classical hypothesis, our interpretations place the
    Shuram excursion, and any coeval animal evolutionary events, in a
    predominantly anoxic global ocean. *****************************************************

    The full text is paywalled.

    An hypothesis is that free oxygen was produced and consumed locally,
    literally within millimeters of each other. If that were true, it
    would allow for the evolution of oxygen-dependent organisms within a
    generally anoxic ocean.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From peter2nyikos@gmail.com@21:1/5 to jillery on Mon Jul 31 08:12:26 2023
    I'm surprised that nobody, not even John Harshman or erik simpson,
    has commented on your OP in the last 3+ days.

    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:45:54 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
    <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-say-textbooks-are-wrong-about-the-origin-of-life/ar-AA1es4FE?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=49d4459279da4a03978f3b0298937286&ei=11>

    <https://tinyurl.com/4zd3uxvw>

    "Scientists Say Textbooks Are Wrong About the Origin of Life"

    The above is an exaggeration. The topic isn't the origin of life, but
    the origin of multicellular, complex, animal life during the Avalon Explosion.

    Your first two sources date the Avalon Explosion in a
    time span that does not even overlap the Ediacaran period:

    "For decades now, the prevailing scientific theory explaining the Precambrian Avalon explosion — in short, the era dating back to about 685 to 800 million years ago in which multicellular organisms began to proliferate in Earth's oceans — has, put
    simply, been that an influx of oxygen into Earth's oceans accelerated the evolution of more complex life, ultimately paving the way for our planet's biosphere as we know it." [*ibid*]

    685 mya was about halfway into the Cryogenian period, that lasted from 720 to 635 million years ago,
    the latter figure marking the beginning of the Ediacaran period. It was the second period in
    the Neoproterozoic era.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenian

    The Ediacaran was the first period in the Phanerozoic Eon. It marks the end of the Proterozoic Eon.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ediacaran

    IF the above dates are accurate, the Avalon Explosion straddles the Cryogenian and Tonian periods, with more of it in
    the earlier of the two:

    "The Tonian (from Ancient Greek: τόνος, romanized: tónos, meaning "stretch") is the first geologic period of the Neoproterozoic Era. It lasted from 1000 to 720 Mya (million years ago). ... The Tonian is preceded by the Stenian Period of the
    Mesoproterozoic Era and followed by the Cryogenian. ...The first putative metazoan (animal) fossils are dated to the middle to late Tonian (c. 890-800 Mya)."
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonian

    However, there is a SERIOUS discrepancy between those dates and the one given by Wikipedia; see below:

    The prevailing view is that the abundance of oxygen
    accelerate the evolution of more complex life. However, a recent
    study claims the world's oceans were anoxic during that time.

    I don't think sponges would have needed much oxygen, if they were sessile all through their life cycle
    back in anoxic times. Known fossils of actively moving animals date only back to near the end of the Ediacaran period.


    Here's a link to the article cited above:

    To be precise: the article cited by the webpage that you link above.

    <https://science.ku.dk/english/press/news/2023/life-on-earth-didnt-arise-as-described-in-textbooks/>

    <https://tinyurl.com/2syt6kk5>

    A popularization in a less rigorous magazine than "Science."

    The article that you are linking here is such a poor popularization, that it contains neither links nor references.
    The webpage that popularizes it, that you first linked, uncritically repeats the dating of the first,
    but it ALSO gives us a link to the following article:

    The Avalon Explosion: Evolution of Ediacara Morphospace https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1150279
    SCIENCE 4 Jan 2008 Vol 319, Issue 5859 pp. 81-84 DOI: 10.1126/science.1150279

    This "SCIENCE" is the real McCoy, and despite its long-ago date,
    it is *still* paywalled. However, the abstract totally contradicts the dating of those two popularizations. Here is how it begins:

    ABSTRACT
    Ediacara fossils [575 to 542 million years ago (Ma)] represent Earth's oldest known complex macroscopic life forms, but their morphological history is poorly understood. A comprehensive quantitative analysis of these fossils indicates that the oldest
    Ediacara assemblage—the Avalon assemblage (575 to 565 Ma)—already encompassed the full range of Ediacara morphospace. A comparable morphospace range was occupied by the subsequent White Sea (560 to 550 Ma) and Nama (550 to 542 Ma) assemblages,
    although it was populated differently.


    Here's a link to the abstract of the paper cited above:

    There is no abstract in the paper that you cited above. The paper you cite next is titled:
    "Widespread seafloor anoxia during generation of the Ediacaran Shuram carbon isotope excursion"

    <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gbi.12557> *************************************************
    Reconstructing the oxygenation history of Earth's oceans during the Ediacaran period (635 to 539 million years ago) has been challenging,
    and this has led to a polarizing debate about the environmental
    conditions that played host to the rise of animals. One focal point of
    this debate is the largest negative inorganic C-isotope excursion
    recognized in the geologic record, the Shuram excursion, and whether
    this relic tracks the global-scale oxygenation of Earth's deep oceans.
    [...]

    Contrary to a classical hypothesis, our interpretations place the
    Shuram excursion, and any coeval animal evolutionary events, in a predominantly anoxic global ocean. *****************************************************

    The Shuram excursion was relatively brief -- around 573 to 562 million years ago --
    and predates many of the Ediacaran biota. [See dates in the abstract I cited above.]


    The full text is paywalled.

    An hypothesis is that free oxygen was produced and consumed locally, literally within millimeters of each other. If that were true, it
    would allow for the evolution of oxygen-dependent organisms within a generally anoxic ocean.

    No mouthparts were even hinted at in any Ediacaran biota until the very atypical *Kimberella*:

    "Specimens were first found in Australia's Ediacara Hills, but recent research has concentrated on the numerous finds near the White Sea in Russia, which cover an interval of time from 555 to 558 million years ago.[2]"
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberella

    I could not find dates for the Australian fossils anywhere. Anyway, there
    is a hypothesis that the typical Ediacaran biota got their nourishment
    from symbiotic bacteria, like the huge tube worms of today in deep ocean vents.


    Peter Nyikos
    Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
    University of South Carolina
    http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to peter2nyikos@gmail.com on Mon Jul 31 16:03:29 2023
    On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:12:26 -0700 (PDT), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

    I'm surprised that nobody, not even John Harshman or erik simpson,
    has commented on your OP in the last 3+ days.


    I'm not at all surprised. Now that you reposted it, perhaps someone
    complain about my typos.


    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:45:54?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
    <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-say-textbooks-are-wrong-about-the-origin-of-life/ar-AA1es4FE?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=49d4459279da4a03978f3b0298937286&ei=11>

    <https://tinyurl.com/4zd3uxvw>

    "Scientists Say Textbooks Are Wrong About the Origin of Life"

    The above is an exaggeration. The topic isn't the origin of life, but
    the origin of multicellular, complex, animal life during the Avalon
    Explosion.

    Your first two sources date the Avalon Explosion in a
    time span that does not even overlap the Ediacaran period:


    The above are links to the the *same* source. The second mitigates
    any wordwrap issues with the first. I have provided such duplicates
    for many years.


    "For decades now, the prevailing scientific theory explaining the Precambrian Avalon explosion — in short, the era dating back to about 685 to 800 million years ago in which multicellular organisms began to proliferate in Earth's oceans — has, put
    simply, been that an influx of oxygen into Earth's oceans accelerated the evolution of more complex life, ultimately paving the way for our planet's biosphere as we know it." [*ibid*]

    685 mya was about halfway into the Cryogenian period, that lasted from 720 to 635 million years ago,
    the latter figure marking the beginning of the Ediacaran period. It was the second period in
    the Neoproterozoic era.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenian

    The Ediacaran was the first period in the Phanerozoic Eon. It marks the end of the Proterozoic Eon.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ediacaran

    IF the above dates are accurate, the Avalon Explosion straddles the Cryogenian and Tonian periods, with more of it in
    the earlier of the two:

    "The Tonian (from Ancient Greek: ?????, romanized: tónos, meaning "stretch") is the first geologic period of the Neoproterozoic Era. It lasted from 1000 to 720 Mya (million years ago). ... The Tonian is preceded by the Stenian Period of the
    Mesoproterozoic Era and followed by the Cryogenian. ...The first putative metazoan (animal) fossils are dated to the middle to late Tonian (c. 890-800 Mya)."
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonian

    However, there is a SERIOUS discrepancy between those dates and the one given by Wikipedia; see below:

    The prevailing view is that the abundance of oxygen
    accelerate the evolution of more complex life. However, a recent
    study claims the world's oceans were anoxic during that time.

    I don't think sponges would have needed much oxygen, if they were sessile all through their life cycle
    back in anoxic times. Known fossils of actively moving animals date only back to near the end of the Ediacaran period.


    Here's a link to the article cited above:

    To be precise: the article cited by the webpage that you link above.


    The "webpage" is a web *article*, analogous to magazine articles, in
    contrast to webpages that for example help sell online junk.


    <https://science.ku.dk/english/press/news/2023/life-on-earth-didnt-arise-as-described-in-textbooks/>

    <https://tinyurl.com/2syt6kk5>

    A popularization in a less rigorous magazine than "Science."

    The article that you are linking here is such a poor popularization, that it contains neither links nor references.


    Which is one reason why I also cited the link to the cited paper found
    in the article I cited.


    The webpage that popularizes it, that you first linked, uncritically repeats the dating of the first,
    but it ALSO gives us a link to the following article:

    The Avalon Explosion: Evolution of Ediacara Morphospace >https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1150279
    SCIENCE 4 Jan 2008 Vol 319, Issue 5859 pp. 81-84 DOI: 10.1126/science.1150279

    This "SCIENCE" is the real McCoy, and despite its long-ago date,
    it is *still* paywalled. However, the abstract totally contradicts the dating >of those two popularizations. Here is how it begins:

    ABSTRACT
    Ediacara fossils [575 to 542 million years ago (Ma)] represent Earth's oldest known complex macroscopic life forms, but their morphological history is poorly understood. A comprehensive quantitative analysis of these fossils indicates that the oldest
    Ediacara assemblage—the Avalon assemblage (575 to 565 Ma)—already encompassed the full range of Ediacara morphospace. A comparable morphospace range was occupied by the subsequent White Sea (560 to 550 Ma) and Nama (550 to 542 Ma) assemblages,
    although it was populated differently.


    Here's a link to the abstract of the paper cited above:

    There is no abstract in the paper that you cited above.


    The paper is cited in the article I cited above. The abstract is in
    the paper. Articles almost never have abstracts.


    The paper you cite next is titled:
    "Widespread seafloor anoxia during generation of the Ediacaran Shuram carbon isotope excursion"


    And this is the abstract of the paper cited above:


    <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gbi.12557>
    *************************************************
    Reconstructing the oxygenation history of Earth's oceans during the
    Ediacaran period (635 to 539 million years ago) has been challenging,
    and this has led to a polarizing debate about the environmental
    conditions that played host to the rise of animals. One focal point of
    this debate is the largest negative inorganic C-isotope excursion
    recognized in the geologic record, the Shuram excursion, and whether
    this relic tracks the global-scale oxygenation of Earth's deep oceans.
    [...]

    Contrary to a classical hypothesis, our interpretations place the
    Shuram excursion, and any coeval animal evolutionary events, in a
    predominantly anoxic global ocean.
    *****************************************************

    The Shuram excursion was relatively brief -- around 573 to 562 million years ago --
    and predates many of the Ediacaran biota. [See dates in the abstract I cited above.]


    That's exactly what you should expect for biota that precedes the
    Ediacaran.


    The full text is paywalled.

    An hypothesis is that free oxygen was produced and consumed locally,
    literally within millimeters of each other. If that were true, it
    would allow for the evolution of oxygen-dependent organisms within a
    generally anoxic ocean.

    No mouthparts were even hinted at in any Ediacaran biota until the very atypical *Kimberella*:


    Mouthparts? Consuming oxygen don't need no steekin' mouthparts.


    "Specimens were first found in Australia's Ediacara Hills, but recent research has concentrated on the numerous finds near the White Sea in Russia, which cover an interval of time from 555 to 558 million years ago.[2]"
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberella

    I could not find dates for the Australian fossils anywhere. Anyway, there
    is a hypothesis that the typical Ediacaran biota got their nourishment
    from symbiotic bacteria, like the huge tube worms of today in deep ocean vents.


    The hypothesis to which I refer above I first read in a book by Nick
    Lane, either "The Vital Question" or "Oxygen".

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From peter2nyikos@gmail.com@21:1/5 to jillery on Mon Jul 31 19:17:29 2023
    On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 4:05:59 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
    On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:12:26 -0700 (PDT), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I'm surprised that nobody, not even John Harshman or erik simpson,
    has commented on your OP in the last 3+ days.
    I'm not at all surprised. Now that you reposted it, perhaps someone
    complain about my typos.

    Cute last sentence there.

    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:45:54?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
    <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-say-textbooks-are-wrong-about-the-origin-of-life/ar-AA1es4FE?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=49d4459279da4a03978f3b0298937286&ei=11>

    <https://tinyurl.com/4zd3uxvw>

    "Scientists Say Textbooks Are Wrong About the Origin of Life"

    The above is an exaggeration. The topic isn't the origin of life, but
    the origin of multicellular, complex, animal life during the Avalon
    Explosion.

    Your first two sources date the Avalon Explosion in a
    time span that does not even overlap the Ediacaran period:

    The above are links to the the *same* source.

    I know. I've done a few tinyurls myself, but usually the original urls
    occupied three or more lines.

    The second mitigates
    any wordwrap issues with the first. I have provided such duplicates
    for many years.

    The second *actual* source also has a tinyurl accompanying it. It appears beaucoup d' lines below.
    The following is still from the first source.

    "For decades now, the prevailing scientific theory explaining the Precambrian Avalon explosion — in short, the era dating back to about 685 to 800 million years ago in which multicellular organisms began to proliferate in Earth's oceans — has, put
    simply, been that an influx of oxygen into Earth's oceans accelerated the evolution of more complex life, ultimately paving the way for our planet's biosphere as we know it." [*ibid*]

    685 mya was about halfway into the Cryogenian period, that lasted from 720 to 635 million years ago,
    the latter figure marking the beginning of the Ediacaran period. It was the second period in
    the Neoproterozoic era.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenian

    The Ediacaran was the first period in the Phanerozoic Eon. It marks the end of the Proterozoic Eon.
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ediacaran

    IF the above dates are accurate, the Avalon Explosion straddles the Cryogenian and Tonian periods, with more of it in
    the earlier of the two:

    "The Tonian (from Ancient Greek: ?????, romanized: tónos, meaning "stretch") is the first geologic period of the Neoproterozoic Era. It lasted from 1000 to 720 Mya (million years ago). ... The Tonian is preceded by the Stenian Period of the
    Mesoproterozoic Era and followed by the Cryogenian. ...The first putative metazoan (animal) fossils are dated to the middle to late Tonian (c. 890-800 Mya)."
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonian

    However, there is a SERIOUS discrepancy between those dates and the one given by Wikipedia; see below:

    I had originally meant to reference Wikipedia, but I decided to go straight
    to the original source cited there, which I cited below for the dates.


    The prevailing view is that the abundance of oxygen
    accelerate the evolution of more complex life. However, a recent
    study claims the world's oceans were anoxic during that time.

    I don't think sponges would have needed much oxygen, if they were sessile all through their life cycle
    back in anoxic times. Known fossils of actively moving animals date only back to near the end of the Ediacaran period.


    Here's a link to the article cited above:

    To be precise: the article cited by the webpage that you link above.

    The "webpage" is a web *article*, analogous to magazine articles, in contrast to webpages that for example help sell online junk.

    I'll try to remember that distinction. Thanks.


    Here comes the second article that you reference twice.

    <https://science.ku.dk/english/press/news/2023/life-on-earth-didnt-arise-as-described-in-textbooks/>

    <https://tinyurl.com/2syt6kk5>

    A popularization in a less rigorous magazine than "Science."

    The article that you are linking here is such a poor popularization, that it contains neither links nor references.

    It is a news release from the Faculty of Science at University of Copenhagen. Thus the "science" in the original
    url has nothing whatsoever to do with the world's second most prestigious science journal, "Science."

    Which is one reason why I also cited the link to the cited paper found
    in the article I cited.

    The webpage that popularizes it, that you first linked, uncritically repeats the dating of the first,
    but it ALSO gives us a link to the following article:

    The Avalon Explosion: Evolution of Ediacara Morphospace >https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1150279
    SCIENCE 4 Jan 2008 Vol 319, Issue 5859 pp. 81-84 DOI: 10.1126/science.1150279

    This "SCIENCE" is the real McCoy, and despite its long-ago date,
    it is *still* paywalled. However, the abstract totally contradicts the dating
    of those two popularizations. Here is how it begins:

    ABSTRACT
    Ediacara fossils [575 to 542 million years ago (Ma)] represent Earth's oldest known complex macroscopic life forms, but their morphological history is poorly understood. A comprehensive quantitative analysis of these fossils indicates that the oldest
    Ediacara assemblage—the Avalon assemblage (575 to 565 Ma)—already encompassed the full range of Ediacara morphospace. A comparable morphospace range was occupied by the subsequent White Sea (560 to 550 Ma) and Nama (550 to 542 Ma) assemblages,
    although it was populated differently.


    Here's a link to the abstract of the paper cited above:

    There is no abstract in the paper that you cited above.

    The paper is cited in the article I cited above. The abstract is in
    the paper. Articles almost never have abstracts.

    OK, we're on the same page now.


    The paper you cite next is titled:
    "Widespread seafloor anoxia during generation of the Ediacaran Shuram carbon isotope excursion"

    And this is the abstract of the paper cited above:

    Yes, I understand what you meant now.

    <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gbi.12557>
    *************************************************
    Reconstructing the oxygenation history of Earth's oceans during the
    Ediacaran period (635 to 539 million years ago) has been challenging,
    and this has led to a polarizing debate about the environmental
    conditions that played host to the rise of animals. One focal point of
    this debate is the largest negative inorganic C-isotope excursion
    recognized in the geologic record, the Shuram excursion, and whether
    this relic tracks the global-scale oxygenation of Earth's deep oceans.
    [...]

    Contrary to a classical hypothesis, our interpretations place the
    Shuram excursion, and any coeval animal evolutionary events, in a
    predominantly anoxic global ocean.
    *****************************************************

    The Shuram excursion was relatively brief -- around 573 to 562 million years ago --
    and predates many of the Ediacaran biota. [See dates in the abstract I cited above.]

    That's exactly what you should expect for biota that precedes the
    Ediacaran.

    Sorry, none of the biota talked about in the article precedes the Ediacaran period,
    as a careful reading of the two abstracts confirms. 635 here, at most 575 there.


    The full text is paywalled.

    An hypothesis is that free oxygen was produced and consumed locally,
    literally within millimeters of each other. If that were true, it
    would allow for the evolution of oxygen-dependent organisms within a
    generally anoxic ocean.

    No mouthparts were even hinted at in any Ediacaran biota until the very atypical *Kimberella*:

    Mouthparts? Consuming oxygen don't need no steekin' mouthparts.

    I was anticipating what I wrote about symbiosis with bacteria below. Kimberella had no such symbiosis hypothesized, hence the need
    for ingesting copious quantities of food.


    "Specimens were first found in Australia's Ediacara Hills, but recent research has concentrated on the numerous finds near the White Sea in Russia, which cover an interval of time from 555 to 558 million years ago.[2]"
    -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberella

    I could not find dates for the Australian fossils anywhere. Anyway, there
    is a hypothesis that the typical Ediacaran biota got their nourishment >from symbiotic bacteria, like the huge tube worms of today in deep ocean vents.

    The hypothesis to which I refer above I first read in a book by Nick
    Lane, either "The Vital Question" or "Oxygen".

    It's an interesting one, but I think "millimeters" only works for microfossils, like the Doushantuo metazoans, believed by some to be embryonic sponges.


    Peter Nyikos
    Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
    Univ. of South Carolina at Columbia
    http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)