• Re: Checking in on "junk DNA"

    From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 1 11:37:00 2023
    On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 08:42:05 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

    On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 5:21:56?AM UTC-8, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 14:15:19 -0800 (PST)
    MarkE <me22...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:01:55?PM UTC+11, Lawyer Daggett wrote: >> [cost of junk DNA]

    The energy cost argument does deserve testing, which you've had a go at. Is the cost of carrying junk DNA more than just energy? E.g. the cost of material? Although efficient recycling within the cell may partially offset that. Or the cost of
    occupied volume, processing speed (you mention time to replicate), the requirement for proportionally more DNA management resources (error correction etc)?

    If the cell as-a-factory analogy has merit, the idea of burning that proportion of time and money is highly questionable. At the same time, beware of simplistic comparisons - e.g. checking against biological realities is necessary, e.g. your
    selection coefficient calculation.

    Interesting to see where the science goes from here.
    It's a poorly designed factory. But it seems to work, and that's all
    evolution cares about.

    Evolution doesn't give a damn about design, poor or not. It's like Microsoft - good enough.

    Unlike MS, evolution doesn't make it a common practice to
    take something which works and throw sand in its gears "just
    because it can".

    BTW, in this thread and at least one other (I forget which)
    a reply fails to post and I get "Syntax error in header
    field" and can only correct it by retyping the content of
    the Newsgroups and Subject fields.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Ernest Major@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Fri Dec 1 19:45:21 2023
    On 01/12/2023 18:37, Bob Casanova wrote:
    Evolution doesn't give a damn about design, poor or not. It's like Microsoft - good enough.

    Unlike MS, evolution doesn't make it a common practice to
    take something which works and throw sand in its gears "just
    because it can".

    I don't know; that sounds rather like fixation if mildly detrimental
    mutations through drift.

    --
    alias Ernest Major

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 1 15:44:42 2023
    On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 10:52:07 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

    On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 10:41:56?AM UTC-8, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 08:42:05 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 5:21:56?AM UTC-8, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 14:15:19 -0800 (PST)
    MarkE <me22...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:01:55?PM UTC+11, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
    [cost of junk DNA]

    The energy cost argument does deserve testing, which you've had a go at. Is the cost of carrying junk DNA more than just energy? E.g. the cost of material? Although efficient recycling within the cell may partially offset that. Or the cost of
    occupied volume, processing speed (you mention time to replicate), the requirement for proportionally more DNA management resources (error correction etc)?

    If the cell as-a-factory analogy has merit, the idea of burning that proportion of time and money is highly questionable. At the same time, beware of simplistic comparisons - e.g. checking against biological realities is necessary, e.g. your
    selection coefficient calculation.

    Interesting to see where the science goes from here.
    It's a poorly designed factory. But it seems to work, and that's all
    evolution cares about.

    Evolution doesn't give a damn about design, poor or not. It's like Microsoft - good enough.

    Unlike MS, evolution doesn't make it a common practice to
    take something which works and throw sand in its gears "just
    because it can".

    BTW, in this thread and at least one other (I forget which)
    a reply fails to post and I get "Syntax error in header
    field" and can only correct it by retyping the content of
    the Newsgroups and Subject fields.

    I've seen the "syntax error" notice before, and not just in GG. I think the problem is "invisible characters" generated by
    fluffed typing.

    That's the assumption I'm going with; since I regenerated
    the contents of the header fields in my previous reply let's
    see if this goes through, since it should be OK now...

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 1 15:48:30 2023
    On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 19:45:21 +0000, the following appeared in
    talk.origins, posted by Ernest Major
    <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk>:

    On 01/12/2023 18:37, Bob Casanova wrote:
    Evolution doesn't give a damn about design, poor or not. It's like Microsoft - good enough.

    Unlike MS, evolution doesn't make it a common practice to
    take something which works and throw sand in its gears "just
    because it can".

    I don't know; that sounds rather like fixation if mildly detrimental >mutations through drift.

    A bit, but the MS changes are (IMHO) more than mildly
    detrimental, and if they occurred in evolution should be
    selected out.

    Of course, if MS keeps it up the entire op sys might be
    "selected out"... :-)

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)