• Primary endosymbiosis caught in the act

    From Chris Thompson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 18 13:04:04 2024
    Is it true that primary endosymbiosis is thought to have happened only
    twice? I'm a little dubious about that. But this is still cool.

    "Scientists have caught a once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event in progress, as two lifeforms have merged into one organism that boasts
    abilities its peers would envy. Last time this happened, Earth got plants."


    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

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  • From Arkalen@21:1/5 to Chris Thompson on Thu Apr 18 20:21:56 2024
    On 18/04/2024 19:04, Chris Thompson wrote:
    Is it true that primary endosymbiosis is thought to have happened only
    twice? I'm a little dubious about that. But this is still cool.

    "Scientists have caught a once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event in progress, as two lifeforms have merged into one organism that boasts abilities its peers would envy. Last time this happened, Earth got plants."


    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/


    One bit I'd found interesting that I didn't know when this article (or
    another one about the same paper) was posted earlier was that apparently symbioses of plants with N2-fixing bacteria date back to the Cretaceous
    - both for algae and land plants even though they do it completely
    differently!

    I'm also dubious about it having happened twice, I thought plants had
    several plastids corresponding to more than one endosymbiotic event. But
    maybe they simplified things for effect, mitochondria and chloroplasts
    are the big ones everyone knows about. Of course (of course).

    Checking that famous drawing of the tree of life with different
    endosymbiosis events that I thought included several, it does seem to
    only have the mitochondria and chloroplast one after all:

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Schematic-Diagram-of-Symbiosis-in-the-Tree-of-Life-and-the-Union-of-the-Bacterial-and_fig1_332956942

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  • From Ernest Major@21:1/5 to Arkalen on Thu Apr 18 21:23:00 2024
    On 18/04/2024 19:21, Arkalen wrote:
    On 18/04/2024 19:04, Chris Thompson wrote:
    Is it true that primary endosymbiosis is thought to have happened only
    twice? I'm a little dubious about that. But this is still cool.

    "Scientists have caught a once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    in progress, as two lifeforms have merged into one organism that
    boasts abilities its peers would envy. Last time this happened, Earth
    got plants."


    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/


    One bit I'd found interesting that I didn't know when this article (or another one about the same paper) was posted earlier was that apparently symbioses of plants with N2-fixing bacteria date back to the Cretaceous
    - both for algae and land plants even though they do it completely differently!

    I'm also dubious about it having happened twice, I thought plants had
    several plastids corresponding to more than one endosymbiotic event. But maybe they simplified things for effect, mitochondria and chloroplasts
    are the big ones everyone knows about. Of course (of course).

    Above endosymbiosis is qualified as primary endosymbiosis. There are
    quite a few instances of secondary and tertiary plastids, but the
    consensus is that primary plastids only originated once. (In some
    analyses Archaeplastida is not monophyletic, with Cryptista, or even
    (IIRC) Hacrobia nested within it, thought Wikipedia currently has
    Cryptista as the sister group to Archaeplastida. If it turns out to be paraphyletic I can see three alternative hypotheses: 1. early loss of
    plastids in Cryptista, followed by acquisition of secondary plastids in
    some or all of Cryptista - I haven't checked the plastid status of basal cryptists. 2. independent endosymbiosis of closely related
    cyanobacteria. 3. an ancient secondary endosymbiosis of which no traces
    have been identified.)

    Checking that famous drawing of the tree of life with different
    endosymbiosis events that I thought included several, it does seem to
    only have the mitochondria and chloroplast one after all:

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Schematic-Diagram-of-Symbiosis-in-the-Tree-of-Life-and-the-Union-of-the-Bacterial-and_fig1_332956942


    On the other hand the cyanelles of some Paulinella species are
    considered organelles by at least some people. The cyanelle has lost
    2/3rds of its genome, with some genes transferred to the nucleus.

    I think it possible that other cases of organelles originating by
    endosymbiosis have occurred over the history of life, and the lineages
    involved lost to extinction. Not that I can see any way to test this hypothesis.

    --
    alias Ernest Major

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  • From RonO@21:1/5 to Arkalen on Thu Apr 18 17:42:23 2024
    On 4/18/2024 1:21 PM, Arkalen wrote:
    On 18/04/2024 19:04, Chris Thompson wrote:
    Is it true that primary endosymbiosis is thought to have happened only
    twice? I'm a little dubious about that. But this is still cool.

    "Scientists have caught a once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    in progress, as two lifeforms have merged into one organism that
    boasts abilities its peers would envy. Last time this happened, Earth
    got plants."


    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/


    One bit I'd found interesting that I didn't know when this article (or another one about the same paper) was posted earlier was that apparently symbioses of plants with N2-fixing bacteria date back to the Cretaceous
    - both for algae and land plants even though they do it completely differently!

    I'm also dubious about it having happened twice, I thought plants had
    several plastids corresponding to more than one endosymbiotic event. But maybe they simplified things for effect, mitochondria and chloroplasts
    are the big ones everyone knows about. Of course (of course).

    Checking that famous drawing of the tree of life with different
    endosymbiosis events that I thought included several, it does seem to
    only have the mitochondria and chloroplast one after all:

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Schematic-Diagram-of-Symbiosis-in-the-Tree-of-Life-and-the-Union-of-the-Bacterial-and_fig1_332956942


    Some single celled eukaryotes have chloroplast endosymbionts evolved
    from eukaryotic algae.

    Ron Okimoto

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