I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he wrote to the
editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the Union. It was the
South's fear that Lincoln would free the slaves, but it appears, based
on the letter he wrote to the editor of the New York newspaper, that
this was a misjudgement by the South of Lincoln and his objective.
The institution had existed f0r over 2 centuries in the South, the
question is would there have
been war had the South _n0t_ succeeded? The succession of Carolina
followed by the attack on Ft. Sumter started the Civil War.
I had read, believed and defended the opinion that unfair tariffs
imposed on the South was the main cause of the war, but this was proven wrong, in spite of the cites on the net advocating this fraud.
Lincoln's Letter to the editor of the New York Newspaper was written 1n August 22, 1862, ab0ut a year and a half after the start of the War
between the States:
Picture
Mathew Brady Photographs of Civil War-Era Personalities and Scenes,
National Archives and Records Administration
Hon. Horace Greely: Executive Mansion,
Dear Sir Washington, August 22, 1862.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the
New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of
fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here,
controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to
be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in
deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right. As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the
nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save
slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save
the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not
agree with them. _My_paramount_object_in_this_struggle_is_to_ save_ the_ Union_, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save
the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save
it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by
freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do
about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to
save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe
it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall
believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I
shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct
errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as
they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and
I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men
every where could be free. Yours,
A. LINCOLN
http://lincolnandemancipation.weebly.com/letter-to-horace-greeley-1862.html
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it was
On Tue, 21 May 2024 20:25:38 -0400
Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it was
This appears to be nowt to do with Origins at all. Why keep up an argument here where you've been comprehensively opposed?
--This really isn't difficult. I fail to see how you have so manyYou are right. This was the South's reason for the secession, but
problems with it.
Yes, Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union.
Why did the Union need preserving?
Because slave states seceded. (Not "succeeded".)
Why did those states secede?
Slavery.
Don't take my word for it.
Look up the Articles of Secession. Read the Cornerstone speech.
It's all written down.
secession was due to a misunderstanding of Lincoln's objective. This
based upon Lincoln's expressed words as to his objective in his letter
almost 2 years after the start of the war.
Chris Thompson wrote:
Ron Dean wrote:You are right. This was the South's reason for the secession, but
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it
was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he wrote to
the editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the Union. It was
the South's fear that Lincoln would free the slaves, but it appears,
based on the letter he wrote to the editor of the New York
newspaper, that this was a misjudgement by the South of Lincoln and
his objective.
The institution had existed f0r over 2 centuries in the South, the
question is would there have
been war had the South _n0t_ succeeded? The succession of Carolina
followed by the attack on Ft. Sumter started the Civil War.
I had read, believed and defended the opinion that unfair tariffs
imposed on the South was the main cause of the war, but this was
proven wrong, in spite of the cites on the net advocating this fraud.
Lincoln's Letter to the editor of the New York Newspaper was written
1n August 22, 1862, ab0ut a year and a half after the start of the
War between the States:
Picture
Mathew Brady Photographs of Civil War-Era Personalities and Scenes,
National Archives and Records Administration
Hon. Horace Greely: Executive Mansion,
Dear Sir Washington, August 22, 1862.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the
New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of
fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here,
controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe
to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If
there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive
it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed
to be right.
As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not meant >>> to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the
Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the
nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who >>> would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save
slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not
save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I
do not agree with them. _My_paramount_object_in_this_struggle_is_to_
save_ the_ Union_, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery.
If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it,
and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and
if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would
also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do
because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I
forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I
shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the
cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will
help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be
errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to
be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty;
and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that
all men every where could be free. Yours,
A. LINCOLN
http://lincolnandemancipation.weebly.com/letter-to-horace-greeley-1862.html >>>
This really isn't difficult. I fail to see how you have so many
problems with it.
Yes, Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union.
Why did the Union need preserving?
Because slave states seceded. (Not "succeeded".)
Why did those states secede?
Slavery.
Don't take my word for it.
Look up the Articles of Secession. Read the Cornerstone speech.
It's all written down.
secession was due to a misunderstanding of Lincoln's objective. This
based upon Lincoln's expressed words as to his objective in his letter
almost 2 years after the start of the war. But maybe this was his
immediate objective not his ultimate purpose. But would this not be disingenuous?
This is not to say that Lincoln approved slavery, he preferred freedom
for all people. Did you bother to read the Letter to to the editor by Lincoln?
There was no misunderstanding.
I disagree. The south thought Lincoln was going to end slavery, but that
was not his expressed objective. Did you read the letter I referenced?
Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2024 20:25:38 -0400
Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
for deceptive purposes.
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it was You are being dishonest here, by chopping off the rest on my comment,
This appears to be nowt to do with Origins at all. Why keep up an argument here where you've been comprehensively opposed?
Chris Thompson wrote:
Ron Dean wrote:You've twisted what I wrote to mean something I did not - This is
Chris Thompson wrote:
Ron Dean wrote:You are right. This was the South's reason for the secession, but
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it
was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he wrote to
the editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the Union. It
was the South's fear that Lincoln would free the slaves, but it
appears, based on the letter he wrote to the editor of the New
York newspaper, that this was a misjudgement by the South of
Lincoln and his objective.
The institution had existed f0r over 2 centuries in the South, the
question is would there have
been war had the South _n0t_ succeeded? The succession of Carolina
followed by the attack on Ft. Sumter started the Civil War.
I had read, believed and defended the opinion that unfair tariffs
imposed on the South was the main cause of the war, but this was
proven wrong, in spite of the cites on the net advocating this fraud. >>>>>
Lincoln's Letter to the editor of the New York Newspaper was
written 1n August 22, 1862, ab0ut a year and a half after the
start of the War between the States:
Picture
Mathew Brady Photographs of Civil War-Era Personalities and Scenes,
National Archives and Records Administration
Hon. Horace Greely: Executive Mansion,
Dear Sir Washington, August 22, 1862.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the
New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions
of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here,
controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may
believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against
them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial
tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have
always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not
meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the
Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored;
the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be
those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same
time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who
would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy
slavery, I do not agree with them.
_My_paramount_object_in_this_struggle_is_to_ save_ the_ Union_, and
is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the
Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save
it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it
by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What
I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it
helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do
not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less
whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I
shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the
cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I
shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. >>>>> I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official
duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal
wish that all men every where could be free. Yours,
A. LINCOLN
http://lincolnandemancipation.weebly.com/letter-to-horace-greeley-1862.html
This really isn't difficult. I fail to see how you have so many
problems with it.
Yes, Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union.
Why did the Union need preserving?
Because slave states seceded. (Not "succeeded".)
Why did those states secede?
Slavery.
Don't take my word for it.
Look up the Articles of Secession. Read the Cornerstone speech.
It's all written down.
secession was due to a misunderstanding of Lincoln's objective. This
based upon Lincoln's expressed words as to his objective in his
letter almost 2 years after the start of the war. But maybe this was
his immediate objective not his ultimate purpose. But would this not
be disingenuous?
This is not to say that Lincoln approved slavery, he preferred
freedom for all people. Did you bother to read the Letter to to the
editor by Lincoln?
You have been shown how much in error you are with all of these
ridiculous assertions. You keep repeating Lost Cause revisionist lies.
For someone who claims to "not have a dog in this fight" you're
clinging desperately to any shred of Lost Cause garbage you can grasp.
I don't think anyone who's read your posts believes you aren't
invested somehow in whitewashing the south's actions.
As to your most recent claim- that the south misunderstood Lincoln's
objectives. Nonsense. Utter rubbish. There was never a
misunderstanding about slavery. Read the discussions of slavery from
the 1787 Constitutional Convention. A fair number of delegates wanted
abolition immediately- most notably Benjamin Franklin and Alexander
Hamilton. But the Constitution would never have been ratified if it
ended slavery right then. The southern states had to be placated, but
the northern states did win concessions- the end of the international
slave trade in 1808 for instance. And even some slaveholding delegates
realized that slavery had to be abolished eventually, and sooner
better than later. George Mason was one of these.
So there was never and misunderstanding on the south's part about
slavery. The abolitionists had only grown more influential and
numerous in the years since the convention. The south was terrified of
slave uprisings- that's why they responded to John Brown's actions so
viciously (and ever since have portrayed him as a lunatic, rather than
a (mostly) righteous and dedicated man.
So once again you are just wrong about this. But I'm pretty certain
you will repeat Lost Cause junk some more, and maybe come up with some
new garbage, because for some reason you're an apologist for slavers.
That's pretty repugnant, you now.
Chris
dishonest You are corrupt!
So, According to you, Lincoln was a liar!
I'm done with this topic!
On 5/23/24 8:49 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
On 5/22/24 4:49 PM, Ron Dean wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
On 5/22/24 12:40 PM, Ron Dean wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
On 5/21/24 5:25 PM, Ron Dean wrote:
I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War,
What other causes do you imagine there were?
but it was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he >>>>>>> wrote to the editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the >>>>>>> Union. It was the South's fear that Lincoln would free the
slaves, but it appears, based on the letter he wrote to the
editor of the New York newspaper, that this was a misjudgement by >>>>>>> the South of Lincoln and his objective.
Sorry, I don't have your crystal ball. No more on this topic.
I call that a win-win.
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