• Re: Autocatalytic sets: less worse than RNA World?

    From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to MarkE on Sun Jan 12 12:35:08 2025
    On 2025-01-12 08:36:28 +0000, MarkE said:

    [ … ]

    Several authors (including Kauffman, Dyson, Eigen, Schuster, Rosen,
    Ganti, Prigogine,
    Maturana, and Varela) posited some form of collective autocatalysis or chemical closure as central in the origins of life (OoL)."
    - Joana Xavier

    [ … ]

    The field is badly fragmented. ...
    - Stuart Kauffman

    Yes, but why? These people came from very different backgrounds: Dyson, physicist; Eigen, physical chemist; Rosen, mathematical biologist;
    Gánti, engineer; Maturana and Varela, neuroscientists; etc. There is
    little evidence that any of them knew one another (other, of course,
    than ones who worked together, Eigen & Schuster; Maturana & Varela) or interacted with one another (Rosen and Varela were introduced to one
    another once at a meeting by someone who thought that they would have
    lots to say to one another; they didn't find anything to discuss).
    There are almost no cross-references in the publications of any of
    these groups. That's a pity, but that's how it was. It's a bit late
    now, as I think Kauffman and Schuster are the only ones who are still
    alive.

    My colleagues María Luz Cárdenas and Juan-Carlos Letelier and I are
    almost the _only_ people who have made any attempt to make a synthesis
    of the ideas of the giants that you have mentioned (see BioSystems 188
    (2020) 104063). If you're not just quote-mining from work that you
    don't understand, maybe you could try yourself, but don't imagine it
    will be easy.

    _________


    Regardless, there appear to be several compelling reasons why
    autocatalytic sets won't work for OoL:

    The concept of autocatalytic sets has been widely discussed as a
    potential mechanism for the origin of life, particularly in the context
    of abiogenesis. These sets consist of networks of molecules in which
    each molecule is catalyzed by others in the set, allowing
    self-sustaining chemical processes. While the concept has theoretical
    appeal, it has also faced significant criticisms and challenges. Below
    are some of the key criticisms:

    All presented without citations, or even mention of the names of the
    people (scientists? journalists? creationists?) who make these
    "criticisms". If you want to be taken seriously you need to include
    some basic information.

    [ … ]

    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

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