On 2/11/2025 10:20 AM, JTEM wrote:
RonO wrote:
Obviously, it is you that was on another planet. The US never had
lockdowns like China. What happened was sparse and ineffective because
There is zero room to argue here. The lockdowns were excessive.
The cost was extreme. The benefit was nil. The whole damn thing
was a foreseeable & foreseen mistake, assuming they weren't
intentionally trying to "Reset" the economy.
What planet were you living on? There never was a centralized plan to >control the infection in the US. Actions like lockdowns were sporadic
and varied from state to state, and were pretty minimal when they were >implemented. Arkansas tried, but neighboring states like Oklahoma
decided not to do it, so nothing much changed in Arkansas due to
boardering states with larger populations not doing much at all.
Testing and contact tracing were never really implemented population
wide, and states were pretty much on their own in terms of trying to get >their people tested. Companies like mine had to implement their own
contact tracing and testing program months after it should have been
started after commercial testing became available. Just recall how long
it was before the Biden administration gave everyone free Covid tests.
nearly a million people (probably more just were not counted) had died
by then.
China tested whole city populations (10s of millions in each group),
isolated infected, and cleared Covid from their country early in the >pandemic, but the virus eventually came back (my guess is that some of
it came in with frozen food processed in other countries). No one else
did that, and the whole world, including China, is still suffering
because of that failure.
On 2/11/2025 10:55 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 21:11:27 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/11/2025 10:20 AM, JTEM wrote:Just FYI, there were lockdowns in multiple jurisdictions.
RonO wrote:
Obviously, it is you that was on another planet. The US never hadThere is zero room to argue here. The lockdowns were excessive.
lockdowns like China. What happened was sparse and ineffective because >>>>
The cost was extreme. The benefit was nil. The whole damn thing
was a foreseeable & foreseen mistake, assuming they weren't
intentionally trying to "Reset" the economy.
What planet were you living on? There never was a centralized plan to
control the infection in the US. Actions like lockdowns were sporadic
and varied from state to state, and were pretty minimal when they were
implemented. Arkansas tried, but neighboring states like Oklahoma
decided not to do it, so nothing much changed in Arkansas due to
boardering states with larger populations not doing much at all.
Testing and contact tracing were never really implemented population
wide, and states were pretty much on their own in terms of trying to get >>> their people tested. Companies like mine had to implement their own
contact tracing and testing program months after it should have been
started after commercial testing became available. Just recall how long >>> it was before the Biden administration gave everyone free Covid tests.
nearly a million people (probably more just were not counted) had died
by then.
China tested whole city populations (10s of millions in each group),
isolated infected, and cleared Covid from their country early in the
pandemic, but the virus eventually came back (my guess is that some of
it came in with frozen food processed in other countries). No one else
did that, and the whole world, including China, is still suffering
because of that failure.
Just because they weren't mandated nationally (which would
be illegal without a Federal emergency declaration) it
doesn't mean they didn't exist.
They existed, but not in any form that would be effective.
If your
neighbors were not doing it, it failed, and as you point out they were
also ineffective because there was no testing and isolation program like
they had in China, and if everyone wasn't doing it it was a waste of
time. The US never bothered to identify all the infected. Where in the
US were they excessive? States like Texas and Oklahoma opted to do
pretty much nothing.
China was initially effective using lockdowns. They forced whole cities--
to stay home and wait to be tested, and they were able to test millions
in just a couple weeks. They eradicated the infection in China for a
period of time. When the virus was reintroduced, they began to have >compliance issues because it was repeatedly reintroduced, and the
strategy failed. My guess is that they needed to irradiate all the
imports as well as implement their quarantine in order to keep the virus
from coming back because the rest of the world failed to control the
virus. That never happened in the US. Nothing even close happened in
the US.
Ron Okimoto
The lockdowns were indeed excessive in some venues (and
essentially ineffective; see the Swedish data for contrast)
and the costs were indeed extreme, in both personal and
economic terms.
On 2/12/2025 9:01 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 08:22:22 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/11/2025 10:55 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:I said nothing about effectiveness, only that they existed.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 21:11:27 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/11/2025 10:20 AM, JTEM wrote:Just FYI, there were lockdowns in multiple jurisdictions.
RonO wrote:
Obviously, it is you that was on another planet. The US never had >>>>>>> lockdowns like China. What happened was sparse and ineffective because >>>>>>There is zero room to argue here. The lockdowns were excessive.
The cost was extreme. The benefit was nil. The whole damn thing
was a foreseeable & foreseen mistake, assuming they weren't
intentionally trying to "Reset" the economy.
What planet were you living on? There never was a centralized plan to >>>>> control the infection in the US. Actions like lockdowns were sporadic >>>>> and varied from state to state, and were pretty minimal when they were >>>>> implemented. Arkansas tried, but neighboring states like Oklahoma
decided not to do it, so nothing much changed in Arkansas due to
boardering states with larger populations not doing much at all.
Testing and contact tracing were never really implemented population >>>>> wide, and states were pretty much on their own in terms of trying to get >>>>> their people tested. Companies like mine had to implement their own >>>>> contact tracing and testing program months after it should have been >>>>> started after commercial testing became available. Just recall how long >>>>> it was before the Biden administration gave everyone free Covid tests. >>>>> nearly a million people (probably more just were not counted) had died >>>>> by then.
China tested whole city populations (10s of millions in each group), >>>>> isolated infected, and cleared Covid from their country early in the >>>>> pandemic, but the virus eventually came back (my guess is that some of >>>>> it came in with frozen food processed in other countries). No one else >>>>> did that, and the whole world, including China, is still suffering
because of that failure.
Just because they weren't mandated nationally (which would
be illegal without a Federal emergency declaration) it
doesn't mean they didn't exist.
They existed, but not in any form that would be effective.
California, for one. Of course, the restrictions didn't
If your
neighbors were not doing it, it failed, and as you point out they were
also ineffective because there was no testing and isolation program like >>> they had in China, and if everyone wasn't doing it it was a waste of
time. The US never bothered to identify all the infected. Where in the >>> US were they excessive? States like Texas and Oklahoma opted to do
pretty much nothing.
apply to the higher officials such as Newsom, who, from the
video evidence (mostly surreptitious or assumed to be
private), continued to operate pretty much as usual.
California efforts were a joke. I've seen YouTube videos demonstrating
that nothing really was ever implemented in any effective manner, and
pretty much none of the neighboring states did much. They could
implement social distancing and outdoor dining that a lot of other
states could not do very well due to outdoor temperatures, but you can
likely find videos of customer limits in bars being ignored and such.
It wasn't much of any type of lock down for any significant period of
time. They did set up on line education systems, and a lot of kids were >taught at home by their usual teachers. They did things, but
enforcement was problematic, and likely what they did was never
considered to be any type of excessive burden.
--
China was initially effective using lockdowns. They forced whole cities >>> to stay home and wait to be tested, and they were able to test millions
in just a couple weeks. They eradicated the infection in China for a
period of time. When the virus was reintroduced, they began to have
compliance issues because it was repeatedly reintroduced, and the
strategy failed. My guess is that they needed to irradiate all the
imports as well as implement their quarantine in order to keep the virus >>>from coming back because the rest of the world failed to control the
virus. That never happened in the US. Nothing even close happened in
the US.
Ron Okimoto
The lockdowns were indeed excessive in some venues (and
essentially ineffective; see the Swedish data for contrast)
and the costs were indeed extreme, in both personal and
economic terms.
On 2/13/2025 4:28 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 17:44:49 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/12/2025 9:01 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:So we agree: Lockdowns were implemented, but they were
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 08:22:22 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/11/2025 10:55 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:I said nothing about effectiveness, only that they existed.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 21:11:27 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
On 2/11/2025 10:20 AM, JTEM wrote:Just FYI, there were lockdowns in multiple jurisdictions.
RonO wrote:
Obviously, it is you that was on another planet. The US never had >>>>>>>>> lockdowns like China. What happened was sparse and ineffective because
There is zero room to argue here. The lockdowns were excessive. >>>>>>>> The cost was extreme. The benefit was nil. The whole damn thing >>>>>>>> was a foreseeable & foreseen mistake, assuming they weren't
intentionally trying to "Reset" the economy.
What planet were you living on? There never was a centralized plan to >>>>>>> control the infection in the US. Actions like lockdowns were sporadic >>>>>>> and varied from state to state, and were pretty minimal when they were >>>>>>> implemented. Arkansas tried, but neighboring states like Oklahoma >>>>>>> decided not to do it, so nothing much changed in Arkansas due to >>>>>>> boardering states with larger populations not doing much at all. >>>>>>> Testing and contact tracing were never really implemented population >>>>>>> wide, and states were pretty much on their own in terms of trying to get
their people tested. Companies like mine had to implement their own >>>>>>> contact tracing and testing program months after it should have been >>>>>>> started after commercial testing became available. Just recall how long
it was before the Biden administration gave everyone free Covid tests. >>>>>>> nearly a million people (probably more just were not counted) had died >>>>>>> by then.
China tested whole city populations (10s of millions in each group), >>>>>>> isolated infected, and cleared Covid from their country early in the >>>>>>> pandemic, but the virus eventually came back (my guess is that some of >>>>>>> it came in with frozen food processed in other countries). No one else >>>>>>> did that, and the whole world, including China, is still suffering >>>>>>> because of that failure.
Just because they weren't mandated nationally (which would
be illegal without a Federal emergency declaration) it
doesn't mean they didn't exist.
They existed, but not in any form that would be effective.
California, for one. Of course, the restrictions didn't
If your
neighbors were not doing it, it failed, and as you point out they were >>>>> also ineffective because there was no testing and isolation program like >>>>> they had in China, and if everyone wasn't doing it it was a waste of >>>>> time. The US never bothered to identify all the infected. Where in the >>>>> US were they excessive? States like Texas and Oklahoma opted to do
pretty much nothing.
apply to the higher officials such as Newsom, who, from the
video evidence (mostly surreptitious or assumed to be
private), continued to operate pretty much as usual.
California efforts were a joke. I've seen YouTube videos demonstrating
that nothing really was ever implemented in any effective manner, and
pretty much none of the neighboring states did much. They could
implement social distancing and outdoor dining that a lot of other
states could not do very well due to outdoor temperatures, but you can
likely find videos of customer limits in bars being ignored and such.
It wasn't much of any type of lock down for any significant period of
time. They did set up on line education systems, and a lot of kids were >>> taught at home by their usual teachers. They did things, but
enforcement was problematic, and likely what they did was never
considered to be any type of excessive burden.
ineffective even though they caused significant personal and
economic problems for large numbers of people.
They were never implemented in any effective manner, nor in any way that
was a significant burden to anyone in the US. The contention that was
being rebutted was that lockdowns were excessive and a burden to the >population. That never happened in the US.
--
China was initially effective using lockdowns. They forced whole cities >>>>> to stay home and wait to be tested, and they were able to test millions >>>>> in just a couple weeks. They eradicated the infection in China for a >>>>> period of time. When the virus was reintroduced, they began to have >>>>> compliance issues because it was repeatedly reintroduced, and the
strategy failed. My guess is that they needed to irradiate all the
imports as well as implement their quarantine in order to keep the virus >>>> >from coming back because the rest of the world failed to control the >>>>> virus. That never happened in the US. Nothing even close happened in >>>>> the US.
Ron Okimoto
The lockdowns were indeed excessive in some venues (and
essentially ineffective; see the Swedish data for contrast)
and the costs were indeed extreme, in both personal and
economic terms.
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