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  • Hiding IP Address - questions on security

    From Martin S Taylor@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 10 15:59:40 2024
    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
    "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
    a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    Martin S Taylor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 10 17:54:12 2024
    Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    Yes it does.

    About iCloud Private Relay
    iCloud Private Relay — part of an iCloud+ subscription — helps protect
    your privacy when you browse the web in Safari.

    How Private Relay works
    Normally when you browse the web, information contained in your web
    traffic, such as your DNS records and IP address, can be seen by your
    network provider and the websites you visit. This information could be
    used to determine your identity and build a profile of your location and browsing history over time.

    iCloud Private Relay is designed to protect your privacy by ensuring
    that when you browse the web in Safari, no single party — not even Apple
    — can see both who you are and what sites you're visiting.

    When Private Relay is enabled, your requests are sent through two
    separate, secure internet relays.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/102602

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
    in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.

    Martin S Taylor

    Joerg

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin S Taylor@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 10 18:03:48 2024
    On 10 Apr 2024, Jörg Lorenz wrote
    (in article <uv6cn4$11sug$1@dont-email.me>):

    Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
    a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    Yes it does.

    Yes it does what? Is there any extra advantage in using iCloud Private Relay?

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
    in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
    in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.
    So if I use iCloud Private Relay the only point in spending money on a VPN is to protect my privacy when I'm not using Safari?

    MST

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIyS on Wed Apr 10 17:31:38 2024
    On 10 Apr 2024 at 15:59:40 BST, "Martin S Taylor" <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:

    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    iCloud+ is what all the pay-for iCloud subs are, btw. If you're paying
    99p or more for iCloud it got rebranded iCloud+ a year or two back.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?

    Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.

    If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.

    Cheers - Jaimie


    --
    "How fleeting are all human passions compared
    with the massive continuity of ducks"
    -- Dorothy L Sayers, _Gaudy Night_

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bruce Horrocks@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Wed Apr 10 21:11:03 2024
    On 10/04/2024 18:31, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 10 Apr 2024 at 15:59:40 BST, "Martin S Taylor" <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:

    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
    "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
    a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    iCloud+ is what all the pay-for iCloud subs are, btw. If you're paying
    99p or more for iCloud it got rebranded iCloud+ a year or two back.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?

    Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.

    If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.

    Or put another way, a VPN such as NordVPN makes you appear to be
    somewhere else by tunneling your traffic to one of their servers. Your
    ISP sees your home IP address but also the IP addresses of the sites you
    visit. Only the sites you visit are unaware of your home IP.

    Private relay hides your address by going through two proxies. The 2nd
    makes the connection to the site you are visiting at the behest of the
    1st. Thus the 2nd can't know your IP because it only receives requests
    from the 1st proxy.

    The 1st proxy knows who you are but doesn't know which site you are
    trying to visit because your Mac encrypts that request using a key that
    the 1st proxy doesn't have access to. The 1st just passes on the
    encrypted request to the 2nd proxy which can decrypt it, does the DNS
    lookup to get the IP address of the site and then makes the connection.

    The site being visited only sees the IP address of the 2nd proxy.

    Simples!

    --
    Bruce Horrocks
    Surrey, England

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin S Taylor@21:1/5 to Bruce Horrocks on Thu Apr 11 11:23:08 2024
    On 10 Apr 2024, Bruce Horrocks wrote
    (in article<b3493b77-0634-4fbf-b296-1e7eca968e55@scorecrow.com>):

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.

    Or put another way, a VPN such as NordVPN makes you appear to be
    somewhere else by tunneling your traffic to one of their servers. Your
    ISP sees your home IP address but also the IP addresses of the sites you visit. Only the sites you visit are unaware of your home IP.

    Private relay hides your address by going through two proxies.

    So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP address from sites I visit.

    I'm still confused as to the difference.

    MST

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin S Taylor@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Thu Apr 11 11:26:43 2024
    On 10 Apr 2024, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote
    (in article <l7o0nqFhpdU1@mid.individual.net>):

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?

    Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.

    If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

    I wondered if that might be the case. So why does Apple tout 'iCloud Private Relay' as one of the advantages of upgrading to iCloud+ ?

    MST

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham J@21:1/5 to Martin S Taylor on Thu Apr 11 11:46:53 2024
    Martin S Taylor wrote:

    [snip]

    So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP address from sites I visit.

    I'm still confused as to the difference.

    It's two different mechanisms to achieve the same end.

    The VPN concept has other applications. For instance I could (with your co-operation, and for specific makes of router) set up a VPN from my
    router to yours. I could then communicate with all the networked
    devices on your LAN. This would be useful if you wanted me to manage
    all your devices for you.

    When I ran a support business this is exactly what I did for clients: it enabled me to resolve user problems without a site visit, and to run
    Microsoft server maintenance outside office hours so that I did not
    disrupt their staff's daily work.


    --
    Graham J

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Graham J on Thu Apr 11 12:09:01 2024
    On 2024-04-11, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
    Martin S Taylor wrote:

    [snip]


    And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari,

    Probably it depends on how Apple integrate it ...


    whereas a
    commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?


    A VPN client installed on your computer will work for all the
    connections made by that computer (subject to details of the client's configuration).

    A VPN service configured in your router will work for all the traffic entering your router from your LAN - again subject to details of the its configuration.

    Well I guess one can always use a browser that supports "The Onion" or the actual TOR Browser itself!

    --
    Cheers, Alan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin S Taylor@21:1/5 to Graham J on Thu Apr 11 12:17:22 2024
    On 11 Apr 2024, Graham J wrote
    (in article <uv8f34$1l50v$1@dont-email.me>):

    Martin S Taylor wrote:

    [snip]

    So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP address from sites I visit.

    I'm still confused as to the difference.

    It's two different mechanisms to achieve the same end.

    The VPN concept has other applications. For instance I could (with your co-operation, and for specific makes of router) set up a VPN from my
    router to yours. I could then communicate with all the networked
    devices on your LAN. This would be useful if you wanted me to manage
    all your devices for you.

    When I ran a support business this is exactly what I did for clients: it enabled me to resolve user problems without a site visit, and to run Microsoft server maintenance outside office hours so that I did not
    disrupt their staff's daily work.

    I see. Thanks.

    And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari, whereas a commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?

    MST

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham J@21:1/5 to Martin S Taylor on Thu Apr 11 12:45:11 2024
    Martin S Taylor wrote:

    [snip]


    And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari,

    Probably it depends on how Apple integrate it ...


    whereas a
    commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?


    A VPN client installed on your computer will work for all the
    connections made by that computer (subject to details of the client's configuration).

    A VPN service configured in your router will work for all the traffic
    entering your router from your LAN - again subject to details of the its configuration.


    --
    Graham J

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jbrennand@21:1/5 to Martin S Taylor on Thu Apr 11 16:59:10 2024
    On 10/04/2024 18:03, Martin S Taylor wrote:
    On 10 Apr 2024, Jörg Lorenz wrote
    (in article <uv6cn4$11sug$1@dont-email.me>):

    Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
    In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says >>> "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me >>> to
    a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what >>> extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    Yes it does.

    Yes it does what? Is there any extra advantage in using iCloud Private Relay?

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
    in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.

    2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

    A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
    in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.
    So if I use iCloud Private Relay the only point in spending money on a VPN is to protect my privacy when I'm not using Safari?

    MST

    Hi Martin

    Thats AIUI - So when using other browsers I always use "ProtonVPN". It
    is highly regarded/reviewed but offers the bonus of a "FREE" (light)
    service - that works very well. However, it only connects to one server
    - in the Netherlands - so if you want to force it via a different
    country you need to buy one of their standard packages.

    I haven't needed to do that yet :-)

    JohnB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Ridd@21:1/5 to Martin S Taylor on Thu Apr 11 20:40:59 2024
    On 11/04/2024 11:26, Martin S Taylor wrote:
    On 10 Apr 2024, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote
    (in article <l7o0nqFhpdU1@mid.individual.net>):

    1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?

    Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.

    If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

    That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

    I wondered if that might be the case. So why does Apple tout 'iCloud Private Relay' as one of the advantages of upgrading to iCloud+ ?

    Well the marketing is at least accurate ;-)

    --
    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)