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  • Email system question

    From TimS@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 13 15:31:19 2024
    By system, I mean the ensemble of hosts, clients, and servers that together provide our ability to communicate via email.

    SWMBO recently had a mail sent out via MailChimp, and a recipient who had
    heard of this mail, claims not to have received it, even after looking in the Spam mailbox etc etc. SWMBO looked into it and apparently MailChimp not only said that the copy sent to that recipient was not rejected but that it had
    been received and, indeed, opened.

    Now, in my experience of implementing an email client, and therefore looking
    at various RFCs, I saw nothing to indicate that any client should tell anybody when their user opens a mail for the first time. Nothing in POP3, no requirement on a client.

    So is this possible or is it bollocks? Or is this perhaps possible in closed email systems which have implemented proprietary extensions to the various protocols, such as perhaps a group of Outlook servers and clients?

    --
    Tim

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to TimS on Thu Jun 13 16:55:19 2024
    TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
    Now, in my experience of implementing an email client, and therefore looking at various RFCs, I saw nothing to indicate that any client should tell anybody
    when their user opens a mail for the first time. Nothing in POP3, no requirement on a client.

    So is this possible or is it bollocks? Or is this perhaps possible in closed email systems which have implemented proprietary extensions to the various protocols, such as perhaps a group of Outlook servers and clients?

    Mailchimp is a mailshot company. Their HTML emails include unique tracking links, eg one-pixel remote images. When the recipient opens the email and views the email with images, their mail client fetches the remote image and Mailchimp chalks up one view to that recipient. Likewise they replace all
    URLs in the message with unique tracking links so they can tell if you click
    on any of them.

    This is why anyone sensible turns off 'load remote content' so the snooping so-and-sos don't get to see what we do with their emails, and never click on any links in them.

    Theo

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 13 17:32:13 2024
    On 13 Jun 2024 at 16:55:19 BST, "Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
    Now, in my experience of implementing an email client, and therefore looking >> at various RFCs, I saw nothing to indicate that any client should tell anybody
    when their user opens a mail for the first time. Nothing in POP3, no
    requirement on a client.

    So is this possible or is it bollocks? Or is this perhaps possible in closed >> email systems which have implemented proprietary extensions to the various >> protocols, such as perhaps a group of Outlook servers and clients?

    Mailchimp is a mailshot company. Their HTML emails include unique tracking links, eg one-pixel remote images. When the recipient opens the email and views the email with images, their mail client fetches the remote image and Mailchimp chalks up one view to that recipient. Likewise they replace all URLs in the message with unique tracking links so they can tell if you click on any of them.

    This is why anyone sensible turns off 'load remote content' so the snooping so-and-sos don't get to see what we do with their emails, and never click on any links in them.

    Christ on a bicycle; I must be nodding off. Of course, I've implemented
    exactly that protection in my own email client - those links and images are
    all disabled if you view the mail in the preview area, or move it to the Spam or Trash mailboxes. If you specifically open the mail or move it elsewhere out of the Inbox, then images/links work. But my assumption then is that you know what you're doing.

    It's also the reason that I don't have mail on my iPhone, because although you can disable those downloads, it's done in a clumsy way.

    I suppose naively I assumed it was only spammers who use those tricks. Thanks for the wake up. So, MailChimp are spammers, eh? Hmmm.

    --
    Tim

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  • From Bruce Horrocks@21:1/5 to TimS on Thu Jun 13 20:18:27 2024
    On 13/06/2024 18:32, TimS wrote:
    I suppose naively I assumed it was only spammers who use those tricks.
    Thanks for the wake up. So, MailChimp are spammers, eh? Hmmm.

    Well, technically it's not MailChimp who are spammers but their clients.
    I'll leave you to explain that to your SWMBO if you could just give me
    time to retreat beyond the blast radius. :-)


    More seriously, if they didn't do this then they wouldn't have been able
    to tell your SWMBO that the recipient appears to have had a senior
    moment. :-)

    --
    Bruce Horrocks
    Surrey, England

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to Bruce Horrocks on Thu Jun 13 20:09:27 2024
    On 13 Jun 2024 at 20:18:27 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

    On 13/06/2024 18:32, TimS wrote:
    I suppose naively I assumed it was only spammers who use those tricks.
    Thanks for the wake up. So, MailChimp are spammers, eh? Hmmm.

    Well, technically it's not MailChimp who are spammers but their clients.
    I'll leave you to explain that to your SWMBO if you could just give me
    time to retreat beyond the blast radius. :-)

    More seriously, if they didn't do this then they wouldn't have been able
    to tell your SWMBO that the recipient appears to have had a senior
    moment. :-)

    Arf. Actually this has caused me to modify tighten up the circs under which
    the email will be allowed to phone home, so that's a plus.

    --
    Tim

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