With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
It is provably NOT secret: each ballot paper carries a unique number,
and that number is recorded manually against the voter's name on the
list prepared for the polling station. Clearly it is possible - with
work - to match ballot papers against names. In a police state it is possible that this is done routinely.
If you can persuade the returning officer that you have reasonable
grounds for suspicion that your vote has not been counted then all the
ballot papers can be checked, and yours found. Clearly the staff doing
the checking would be expected to keep the information on the ballot
paper secret; but that is simply a legal requirement. If they release
that information they can be prosecuted, but that doesn't UN-release the information.
On 02/07/2024 09:24, Graham J wrote:
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
It is provably NOT secret: each ballot paper carries a unique number,
and that number is recorded manually against the voter's name on the
list prepared for the polling station. Clearly it is possible - with
work - to match ballot papers against names. In a police state it is
possible that this is done routinely.
If you can persuade the returning officer that you have reasonable
grounds for suspicion that your vote has not been counted then all the
ballot papers can be checked, and yours found. Clearly the staff doing
the checking would be expected to keep the information on the ballot
paper secret; but that is simply a legal requirement. If they release
that information they can be prosecuted, but that doesn't UN-release the
information.
It's a tricky challenge because the system needs to be able to prove to
the voter that their vote was correctly recorded but you can't issue a "receipt" because that would enable the buying and selling of votes.
It is this aspect of the traditional UK voting process that is
"secret", not that the authorities can't - with effort - find out how
you voted.[1]
Rebecca Mercuri is one of the leading researchers in this area and,
iirc, proposed a solution to this problem (and many others) in a way
that could be implemented into an electronic voting machine.
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
It is provably NOT secret: each ballot paper carries a unique number,
and that number is recorded manually against the voter's name on the
list prepared for the polling station. Clearly it is possible - with
work - to match ballot papers against names. In a police state it is possible that this is done routinely.
If you can persuade the returning officer that you have reasonable
grounds for suspicion that your vote has not been counted then all the
ballot papers can be checked, and yours found. Clearly the staff doing
the checking would be expected to keep the information on the ballot
paper secret; but that is simply a legal requirement. If they release
that information they can be prosecuted, but that doesn't UN-release the information.
On 2 Jul 2024 at 09:24:23 BST, "Graham J" <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
It is provably NOT secret: each ballot paper carries a unique number,
and that number is recorded manually against the voter's name on the
list prepared for the polling station. Clearly it is possible - with
work - to match ballot papers against names. In a police state it is
possible that this is done routinely.
If you can persuade the returning officer that you have reasonable
grounds for suspicion that your vote has not been counted then all the
ballot papers can be checked, and yours found. Clearly the staff doing
the checking would be expected to keep the information on the ballot
paper secret; but that is simply a legal requirement. If they release
that information they can be prosecuted, but that doesn't UN-release the
information.
Doesn't this require a court order? Once the declaration has happened, the ballots are locked up and destroyed after 6 months unless such an order is issued, is my understanding.
And who is this "you" that you refer to. Not just any old Joe Soap is allowed to be present at the Count, which is where the Deputy Returning Officer is to be found after the close of polls.
On 02/07/2024 12:45, TimS wrote:
On 2 Jul 2024 at 09:24:23 BST, "Graham J" <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
It is provably NOT secret: each ballot paper carries a unique number,
and that number is recorded manually against the voter's name on the
list prepared for the polling station. Clearly it is possible - with
work - to match ballot papers against names. In a police state it is
possible that this is done routinely.
If you can persuade the returning officer that you have reasonable
grounds for suspicion that your vote has not been counted then all the
ballot papers can be checked, and yours found. Clearly the staff doing
the checking would be expected to keep the information on the ballot
paper secret; but that is simply a legal requirement. If they release
that information they can be prosecuted, but that doesn't UN-release the >>> information.
Doesn't this require a court order? Once the declaration has happened, the >> ballots are locked up and destroyed after 6 months unless such an order is >> issued, is my understanding.
And who is this "you" that you refer to. Not just any old Joe Soap is allowed
to be present at the Count, which is where the Deputy Returning Officer is to
be found after the close of polls.
Members of the public can observe the count though generally only those
with a vested interest in the result, ie members of the relevant
political parties, actually do so.
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
The current ballot in the UK is only ***legally*** secret.
On 2 Jul 2024 at 12:22:50 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
It's a tricky challenge because the system needs to be able to prove to
the voter that their vote was correctly recorded but you can't issue a
"receipt" because that would enable the buying and selling of votes.
Who is going to be making this challenge, and when, and how?
With an election this week, can anybody suggest a provably secret
polling method which could capture and count votes quickly and easily?
Using a mechanism that the general public can understand and trust?
To be admitted to the Count you have to be one of (a) a candidate, (b) that >candidate's agent (if the candidate is not their own agent), (c) the (one) >guest of the candidate, or (d) one of up to 10 counting agents appointed by >the candidate. Others are not admitted.
In article <leieirFp17pU1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
To be admitted to the Count you have to be one of (a) a candidate, (b) that >> candidate's agent (if the candidate is not their own agent), (c) the (one) >> guest of the candidate, or (d) one of up to 10 counting agents appointed by >> the candidate. Others are not admitted.
According to this page, you can apply to be an accredited electoral observer, allowing you to observe the counting of votes:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/observing-elections-and-referendums
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