On 7 Apr 2025 at 08:23:48 BST, "Alan Lee" <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:

On 07/04/2025 08:07, Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We
struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us >> realise that a landline was essentialr us.

Surely a mobile would be far cheaper and more versatile than a fixed
line phone?

Although my wife and I still have our landline phone and number, we rarely use it for dialling out. We only need it due to users who can't or won't call our mobiles! I mentioned power cuts earlier but on the last outage not only did
the landline capability go but the local mobile masts went down too! No I'm
not going to buy a satellite phone, although the latest iPhones seem to have some kind of emergengy satellite capability.

--
Cheers, Alan

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On 7 Apr 2025 at 08:07:17 BST, "Peter James" <peterf@gmail.com> wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.
peteFJ

When we were switched to digital only, we were given WiFi adapters what
connect to the router allowing our old phones to still work. The downside is that should the mains power go down, you can't use them! Were you not given this option? There seems to be plenty of VOIP phone suppliers and I see no reason why you need to necessarily get one from your broadband supplier.

--
Cheers, Alan

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On 07/04/2025 08:07, Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

Surely a mobile would be far cheaper and more versatile than a fixed
line phone?

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.

It can be bought for £5 or less a month, your existing provider may do
it, contact them, if they dont do it, lots of Companies will be happy to provide it for you.

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Peter James <peterf@gmail.com> wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.

Either, just like you can get email from your ISP or a separate provider.
The only downside really of a separate provider is you may need an extra box
to plug into your router.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summary-of-dedicated-home-voip-providers-for-uk-consumers.html

I use Andrews and Arnold at £1.44 per month, and they've been fine.

Theo

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Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essential for us.

It would help to know why this is, for you ...

In order to get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the open markett, such as it is.

You can get VoIP from any VoIP provider. I use Voipfone but others here
will have different recommendations.

What you will probably have difficulty with is getting back your
original landline number, unless the loss of your landline number was
well within the last 30 days.

Your broadband supplier may have provided you with a router having a
standard UK phone socket. You can find out (not necessarily from that supplier) how to configure that router to work with the VoIP service you choose. Then just plug in your existing phone (or DECT base-station) to
that socket on the router. Some routers will support a DECT phone directly.

Routers not tied to your broadband supplier might not support a plug-in
phone. In this case your VoIP supplier can offer a suitable product
which connects to an Ethernet port on your router. This could be a base-station plus handset(s) or an ATA (Analog Terminal Adapter) into
which you plug your existing wired phone.

Others have made the point that all these devices require a reliable
mains electricity supply. If you're vulnerable and in a rural area
where the power fails for days at a time when there's a little gust of
wind, then think about getting a UPS and a generator. Probably also a
good decision if you live near Heathrow where mains substations catch
fire and incinerate their own backup generators.

Further, you also need a reliable broadband service - so anything less
than FTTP may not be suitable. Some people here will tell you that FTTC
never fails, but people who ask me to fix problems for them know otherwise.


--
Graham J

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On 07.04.25 09:07, Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.
peteFJ

Depends on the rules and regulations in your country.


--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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On 07.04.25 10:56, Theo wrote:

Peter James <peterf@gmail.com> wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We
struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us >> realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier >> or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.

Either, just like you can get email from your ISP or a separate provider.
The only downside really of a separate provider is you may need an extra box to plug into your router.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summary-of-dedicated-home-voip-providers-for-uk-consumers.html

I use Andrews and Arnold at £1.44 per month, and they've been fine.

Here in Switzerland with Swisscom VOIP for domestic calls is free.
And modern routers have very often a DECT-modul integrated.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

On 07.04.25 10:56, Theo wrote:

Peter James <peterf@gmail.com> wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We
struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us >> realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier
or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.

Either, just like you can get email from your ISP or a separate provider. The only downside really of a separate provider is you may need an extra box
to plug into your router.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summary-of-dedicated-home-voip-providers-for-uk-consumers.html

I use Andrews and Arnold at £1.44 per month, and they've been fine.

Here in Switzerland with Swisscom VOIP for domestic calls is free.
And modern routers have very often a DECT-modul integrated.

In the UK most ISP routers are locked down so you can't use a third party
VOIP service, or a third party router with the ISP's VOIP service. So unless you're happy to be locked into the ISP's walled garden it's another reason
to use a third party service with a separate adapter.

Theo

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Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

Further, you also need a reliable broadband service - so anything less
than FTTP may not be suitable. Some people here will tell you that FTTC never fails, but people who ask me to fix problems for them know otherwise.

You keep saying this, but everyone who has been moved onto 'digital voice'
with FTTC is already using such a service. Are lots of people having
problems with their now-VOIP 'landlines'? I've heard a few stories, but
they sound mostly ISP misconfigurations rather than connectivity
reliability.

In any case, it's moot for the OP and those people who no longer have an analogue connection as it's no longer possible to order one. VOIP is the
only option at this point. Or to use a mobile, which (for VoLTE anyway) is VOIP over 4G.

The point about potentially needing a backup power supply is a good one. Various ISPs are offering a battery backup solution which looks handy: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2025/03/broadband-isps-vodafone-bt-kcom-and-zen-internet-prep-new-uk-battery-backup.html

(can also be bought, but I expect competitors will come along and they'll
come down in price)

Theo

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Theo wrote:

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

Further, you also need a reliable broadband service - so anything less
than FTTP may not be suitable. Some people here will tell you that FTTC
never fails, but people who ask me to fix problems for them know otherwise.

You keep saying this, but everyone who has been moved onto 'digital voice' with FTTC is already using such a service. Are lots of people having problems with their now-VOIP 'landlines'? I've heard a few stories, but
they sound mostly ISP misconfigurations rather than connectivity
reliability.

Where problems have been brought to me the usual cause is RFI causing
short breaks in service. Examples are: electric fences, security lights
at neighbouring premises, Christmas tree lights, Openreach technicians
working at Green Cabinets, and lightning strikes. On an analog landline
these would be un-noticed or at worst perceived as brief clicks. On a broadband service these cause the router to re-sync, taking up to a
couple of minutes. If you monitor connections with a tool such as

<https://f8lure.mouselike.org/auth.asp>

... such breaks become immediately apparent.

Then the VoIP service has to re-register itself, taking perhaps a
further couple of minutes. Very inconvenient if you're in the middle of
a phone call!

The fact that these faults are not often reported does suggest that
people don't actually make many phone calls using landline numbers.
Despite this, VoIP call quality is generally much better than any mobile
- just listen to broadcast news radio when a journalist tries to
interview somebody over a mobile phone connection!

In any case, it's moot for the OP and those people who no longer have an analogue connection as it's no longer possible to order one. VOIP is the only option at this point.

The fact that it's the only option does not suggest it is good! But
when we all get FTTP (not in the foreseeable future for many people!)
things will hopefuly improve.

The point about potentially needing a backup power supply is a good one.

--
Graham J

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On 07/04/2025 08:07, Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.
peteFJ

BT is going to switch off the PSTN (and ISDN) networks by December 2025.
So no more landlines. Or fax machines :-)

So you *need* to use VOIP, or if you've got reasonable cell coverage,
just your mobile.

--
Chris

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Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

On 7 Apr 2025 at 08:07:17 BST, "Peter James" <peterf@gmail.com> wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances made us realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband supplier
or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.
peteFJ

When we were switched to digital only, we were given WiFi adapters what connect to the router allowing our old phones to still work. The downside is that should the mains power go down, you can't use them! Were you not given this option? There seems to be plenty of VOIP phone suppliers and I see no reason why you need to necessarily get one from your broadband supplier.

If it is as reliable as my current internet connection, I shall be
without a 'phone for a fair percentage of the time.

For those who remember the Plusnet Router saga, I've been swapping
between the TP-link router and the Plusnet one to compare the results.
The Plusnet router seems to recover from most of the internet outages
but the TP-link doesn't. This means that with the TP-link router in
operation I am aware that I lose the internet at least once per week,
often more frequently.

Add to that: I usually ring a friend once a day to check that she is OK.
She recently had her 'phone converted to VOIP, now I get 'Busy tone'
about 25% of the times I ring her. I have checked with her that her
'phone hasn't been in use at the time - and I usually get through
straight away if I ring back a few seconds later. She is disabled and 'vulnerable'; they never offered a battery back-up and didn't even
bother to enquire if she needed one.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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On 08/04/2025 11:41, David Kennedy wrote:

On 07/04/2025 17:29, Chris Ridd wrote:

On 07/04/2025 08:07, Peter James wrote:

I changed BroadBand supply and in the process I lost my BT landline. We
struggled on without a landline for a while but then circumstances
made us
realise that a landline was essentialr us.

In order ro get VOIP do I need to get it from my existing broadband
supplier
or can I go to the opeen markett, suchas it is.
peteFJ

BT is going to switch off the PSTN (and ISDN) networks by December
2025. So no more landlines. Or fax machines :-)

So you *need* to use VOIP, or if you've got reasonable cell coverage,
just your mobile.

AIUI it's now January 2027?

You're right, that's the absolute drop dead date when they turn it off.

--
Chris

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Liz Tuddenham wrote:

[snip]

If it is as reliable as my current internet connection, I shall be
without a 'phone for a fair percentage of the time.

For those who remember the Plusnet Router saga, I've been swapping
between the TP-link router and the Plusnet one to compare the results.
The Plusnet router seems to recover from most of the internet outages
but the TP-link doesn't. This means that with the TP-link router in operation I am aware that I lose the internet at least once per week,
often more frequently.

Liz, I'm not sure that your router was actually losing its internet
connection. From memory, it seemed more likely that it was not carrying
some traffic.

But you can help yourself find out more. Ideally, pay Plusnet their £5
on-off fee to get a static IP address. Or use a Dynamic DNS service.
Then set up a login with:

<https://f8lure.mouselike.org/auth.asp>

This will show you in fine detail whenever your internet connection
fails. Capture screen-shots of the failures and challenge Plusnet about
every one of them. That way you might get a more reliable service.

But in the wider scheme of things, refuse all offers of VoIP until you
can get FTTP.

--
Graham J

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Liz Tuddenham wrote:

[snip]

Add to that: I usually ring a friend once a day to check that she is OK.
She recently had her 'phone converted to VOIP, now I get 'Busy tone'
about 25% of the times I ring her. I have checked with her that her
'phone hasn't been in use at the time - and I usually get through
straight away if I ring back a few seconds later. She is disabled and 'vulnerable'; they never offered a battery back-up and didn't even
bother to enquire if she needed one.

Please could you find out for us:

1. the ISP which provides the underlying broadband service.

2. the make and model number of the router.

3. details of the VoIP supplier - is it the same as the ISP or somebody different?

4. how the handset connects to the router - is it plugged in, via DECT,
via an ATA, or via a VoIP base-station?

We might then be able to suggest how to get a resolution.

--
Graham J

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Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

[snip]

Add to that: I usually ring a friend once a day to check that she is OK. She recently had her 'phone converted to VOIP, now I get 'Busy tone'
about 25% of the times I ring her. I have checked with her that her
'phone hasn't been in use at the time - and I usually get through
straight away if I ring back a few seconds later. She is disabled and 'vulnerable'; they never offered a battery back-up and didn't even
bother to enquire if she needed one.

Please could you find out for us:

1. the ISP which provides the underlying broadband service.

2. the make and model number of the router.

3. details of the VoIP supplier - is it the same as the ISP or somebody different?

4. how the handset connects to the router - is it plugged in, via DECT,
via an ATA, or via a VoIP base-station?

We might then be able to suggest how to get a resolution.

Thank you for the offer, but I wasn't asking you to resolve the matter,
I was just citing it as an example of things that have worked flawlessly
for decades going wrong when they are 'improved' for no good reason.

However, I will try to find out more details - although the chances of
doing anything about it are mininal. From memory, I think Virgin Media
provide the connection, the service and the router - and the 'phone is
the previous POTS 'phone plugged into the router.

I call through 18866 (which doesn't give this trouble on landlines).


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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In article <vt56fi$4egi$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

BT is going to switch off the PSTN (and ISDN) networks by December
2025. So no more landlines. Or fax machines :-)

So you *need* to use VOIP, or if you've got reasonable cell coverage,
just your mobile.

AIUI it's now January 2027?

You're right, that's the absolute drop dead date when they turn it off.

Unless they postpone it.

-- Richard

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On 09/04/2025 15:03, Richard Tobin wrote:

In article <vt56fi$4egi$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

BT is going to switch off the PSTN (and ISDN) networks by December
2025. So no more landlines. Or fax machines :-)

So you *need* to use VOIP, or if you've got reasonable cell coverage,
just your mobile.

AIUI it's now January 2027?

You're right, that's the absolute drop dead date when they turn it off.

Unless they postpone it.

Beat me to it. I was going to say "It's the absolute drop-dead date by
which they'll announce another extension."

--
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, England

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On 09/04/2025 23:07, Bruce wrote:

On 09/04/2025 15:03, Richard Tobin wrote:

In article <vt56fi$4egi$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Ridd  <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

BT is going to switch off the PSTN (and ISDN) networks by December
2025. So no more landlines. Or fax machines :-)

So you *need* to use VOIP, or if you've got reasonable cell coverage, >>>>> just your mobile.

AIUI it's now January 2027?

You're right, that's the absolute drop dead date when they turn it off.

Unless they postpone it.

Beat me to it. I was going to say "It's the absolute drop-dead date by
which they'll announce another extension."

Heh!

--
Chris

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