I'm after a Mac laptop, primarily to drive a portable LG LED projector via USB
C or HDMI. I don't have any other need for a laptop right now, although I'd like to keep in mind a future use as a media server to replace a currently perfectly adequate 2011 Mac Mini (when/if it expires), tethering 5TB of SSD via USB.
My own 'research' seems to point to an early 2015 A1502 13" MacBook Pro for about £75 to £150 (working tatty to good). This is based on ease of upgrading
(SSD and battery), price (< £200), and cost/availability of spares (batteries
and chargers, which is where most of the 2nd hand examples seem to be lacking). Connectivity is fine as it has HDMI, but not USB C. So those are the
things that are important - speed, bulk, screen size not so
Any advice here? I've casually watched posts and reviews over the years, with warnings about fragile keyboards and whatnot, but not really paid too much attention as I haven't been in the market . . . until now.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
I'm after a Mac laptop, primarily to drive a portable LG LED projector via USB
C or HDMI. I don't have any other need for a laptop right now, although I'd >> like to keep in mind a future use as a media server to replace a currently >> perfectly adequate 2011 Mac Mini (when/if it expires), tethering 5TB of SSD >> via USB.
My own 'research' seems to point to an early 2015 A1502 13" MacBook Pro for >> about £75 to £150 (working tatty to good). This is based on ease of upgrading
(SSD and battery), price (<£200), and cost/availability of spares (batteries>
and chargers, which is where most of the 2nd hand examples seem to be
lacking). Connectivity is fine as it has HDMI, but not USB C. So those are the
things that are important - speed, bulk, screen size not so
Any advice here? I've casually watched posts and reviews over the years, with
warnings about fragile keyboards and whatnot, but not really paid too much >> attention as I haven't been in the market . . . until now.
I think 2015 is the sweet spot.
2016-19 are the butterfly keyboard which has reliability problems, better to avoid.
Avoid laptops with Nvidia discrete graphics, as Apple abandoned them and deleted the code from newer MacOS, which means it's harder to get OCLP running nicely on them. Of the 15" MBPs they switched to AMD in 2015; I'm not sure if there are 13" with discrete GPUs. (ah, looks like there aren't)
CPU wise they stagnated a bit 2013-15, mostly using Haswell CPUs. In 2016 they went to Skylake which is a better microarchitecture. The 13" 2015 MBPs used Broadwell which was a 14nm version of Haswell (22nm) - so you get a bit of a performance improvement but Skylake was much better. The ones before Haswell (early-2013 and before) are more power hungry so have worse battery life.
The 'Retina' ones came in 2012 and have a much nicer screen than the ones before. The mid-2012 is built like a tank (optical drive etc, 2.5" HDD replaceable with an SSD, removable RAM) but is thicker, has a more power hungry CPU and a non-Retina screen - it's the last of the classic
upgradeable Macs.
Agree on the SSD, in which M.2 NVMe can be installed via an adapter in the late 2013-16s. I think they've now sorted out all the past problems with firmware power management of third party NVMes. 2016s use NVMe in a custom form factor (of course) and you can fit a small 2230 M.2 via an adapter,
then they went to soldered SSD.
(some 2013 and earlier used SATA SSD sticks not PCIe, so can only be
replaced by mSATA in an adapter - these are much slower)
Power wise, you can get Magsafe to USB-C adapters so you can power them from USB-C, but it needs to be a beefy PSU that supports 20V output - only 80+W chargers are likely to work. There's a slight difference in voltages in the small v large original Magsafe chargers with some noises that you shouldn't use the bigger one on the smaller laptops like the MBA because it charges
the battery too fast - I suppose a 20V USB-C might run the power conversion circuit slightly warmer and maybe a little out of tolerance, but if it's a £100 machine not a £4000 machine I'd be less worried about this.
It's also worth looking at the OCLP compatibility list: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
which has 2012-16 all using 'legacy Metal' (some graphics driver issues,
that page links to a list) but otherwise equivalently supported. So upgrading to a modern MacOS should be possible.
Om monitors, you can also get (mini)Displayport from the Thunderbolt connectors, which gives you another video option. Since video over USB-C uses Displayport signalling, it might be possible to get a cheap adapter to drive a USB-C only monitor/projector - I haven't looked.
One downside on the pre-2016s is you get Thunderbolt 2 (or 1) rather than 3, which uses the miniDisplayport connector rather than the USB-C connector.
If you want to use recent Thunderbolt things (ie not Displayport) that means an expensive TB2->3 adapter. The USB-A ports are unaffected.
That was a bit of a brain dump... one caveat is that when Apple made a change, especially a non-user-facing one (eg SATA to PCIe on the SSD connector) they often didn't make it across the range
(MBP/MBA/iMac/Mini/..., 11/13/15/21.5/27") at once. So around the time of changes it's worth looking up what specific models (the number like A5678)
do - often there was one model that held out the old way for a bit longer
so check before buying what your specific model does.
Theo
My own 'research' seems to point to an early 2015 A1502 13" MacBook Pro
On 25 Apr 2025 at 10:35:32 BST, Theo wrote:
Power wise, you can get Magsafe to USB-C adapters so you can power them from
USB-C, but it needs to be a beefy PSU that supports 20V output - only 80+W chargers are likely to work. There's a slight difference in voltages in the
small v large original Magsafe chargers with some noises that you shouldn't use the bigger one on the smaller laptops like the MBA because it charges the battery too fast - I suppose a 20V USB-C might run the power conversion circuit slightly warmer and maybe a little out of tolerance, but if it's a £100 machine not a £4000 machine I'd be less worried about this.
Very few seem to come with original charger.
It's also worth looking at the OCLP compatibility list: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
which has 2012-16 all using 'legacy Metal' (some graphics driver issues, that page links to a list) but otherwise equivalently supported. So upgrading to a modern MacOS should be possible.
Om monitors, you can also get (mini)Displayport from the Thunderbolt connectors, which gives you another video option. Since video over USB-C uses Displayport signalling, it might be possible to get a cheap adapter to drive a USB-C only monitor/projector - I haven't looked.
One downside on the pre-2016s is you get Thunderbolt 2 (or 1) rather than 3,
which uses the miniDisplayport connector rather than the USB-C connector. If you want to use recent Thunderbolt things (ie not Displayport) that means
an expensive TB2->3 adapter. The USB-A ports are unaffected.
This seems to be the biggest drawback for me - just makes it that bit less versatile as the world heads towards USB C
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2025 at 10:35:32 BST, Theo wrote:
Power wise, you can get Magsafe to USB-C adapters so you can power them from
USB-C, but it needs to be a beefy PSU that supports 20V output - only 80+W >>> chargers are likely to work. There's a slight difference in voltages in the
small v large original Magsafe chargers with some noises that you shouldn't >>> use the bigger one on the smaller laptops like the MBA because it charges >>> the battery too fast - I suppose a 20V USB-C might run the power conversion >>> circuit slightly warmer and maybe a little out of tolerance, but if it's a >>> £100 machine not a £4000 machine I'd be less worried about this.
Very few seem to come with original charger.
I'd not worry about using any Magsafe 2 charger really. This notion
about them being particular about a specific charger is not something I've ever heard anyone report a Macbook being damaged by, it's just a thing that goes around.
This was the era of the fraying charger cables so many of them became unusable (Apple used 'elastomer' rubber instead of PVC insulation and they fell apart very rapidly). So maybe Magsafe 2 chargers are rare nowadays. I have 3 - one frayed, one failed, one working. I would transfer the cord
from the failed one to the frayed one if it wasn't welded shut.
The USB-C to Magsafe adapter is not officially sanctioned but I have one
from Aliexpress (for Magsafe 1) and it works. It's a good option if you can't get an official charger.
It's also worth looking at the OCLP compatibility list:This seems to be the biggest drawback for me - just makes it that bit less >> versatile as the world heads towards USB C
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
which has 2012-16 all using 'legacy Metal' (some graphics driver issues, >>> that page links to a list) but otherwise equivalently supported. So
upgrading to a modern MacOS should be possible.
Om monitors, you can also get (mini)Displayport from the Thunderbolt
connectors, which gives you another video option. Since video over USB-C >>> uses Displayport signalling, it might be possible to get a cheap adapter to >>> drive a USB-C only monitor/projector - I haven't looked.
One downside on the pre-2016s is you get Thunderbolt 2 (or 1) rather than 3,
which uses the miniDisplayport connector rather than the USB-C connector. >>> If you want to use recent Thunderbolt things (ie not Displayport) that means
an expensive TB2->3 adapter. The USB-A ports are unaffected.
I think you can get a good part of the way with a fistful of adapters:
USB-C (female) to Magsafe (male) - for charging
USB-C (female) to USB-A 3.0 (male) - for USB devices
USB-C (female) to miniDisplayport (male) - for video
Then you support modern USB-C things, but what you don't support is using a single cable for power/data/video. This precludes some of the docks you might want to use. A Thunderbolt dock would bypass this, although may not also power the laptop.
On 25 Apr 2025 at 14:26:06 BST, Theo wrote:
The A1502 doesn't have the miniDisplayport - that was the earlier 2008-2010 Pros. It's got Thunderbolt 2, but that looks to be a world of pain, and I can't see me needing it over plain USB A.
Then you support modern USB-C things, but what you don't support is using a single cable for power/data/video. This precludes some of the docks you might want to use. A Thunderbolt dock would bypass this, although may not also power the laptop.
Thanks - a s/h TB2 dock might be an idea. It's a shame about lack of proper C,
but really, for the price, there has to be a hit somewhere. And for now HDMI should see it through - including for a media server come the day.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2025 at 14:26:06 BST, Theo wrote:
The A1502 doesn't have the miniDisplayport - that was the earlier 2008-2010 >> Pros. It's got Thunderbolt 2, but that looks to be a world of pain, and I
can't see me needing it over plain USB A.
Thunderbolt 2 *is* miniDisplayport. Plug in a mDP cable and you get video, just like any mDP port. Plug in a Thunderbolt device and you get
Thunderbolt (PCIe+DP muxed). If you have TB dock it can then split off the DP video and also make use of the PCIe for other devices. There's no USB
on TB2 but you can have a PCIe->USB controller at the far end as many docks do.
It's where the idea for USB-C alt-modes came from. One port that supports different protocols depending on what you plug in it. It's just the only supported modes on the mDP connector are 'Displayport' and 'Thunderbolt'.
Then you support modern USB-C things, but what you don't support is using a >>> single cable for power/data/video. This precludes some of the docks you >>> might want to use. A Thunderbolt dock would bypass this, although may not >>> also power the laptop.
Thanks - a s/h TB2 dock might be an idea. It's a shame about lack of proper C,
but really, for the price, there has to be a hit somewhere. And for now HDMI >> should see it through - including for a media server come the day.
Sadly Thunderbolt stuff is unnecessarily pricey, but you may be able to pick up a used TB2 dock for less money as there can't be much demand for it nowadays.
The Apple TB2->TB3 adapter has a male USB-C (TB3) and a female TB2 port, so you can plug in TB3 devices as long as they have a female TB3 port (and use
a TB2 to TB2 cable), but you can't plug in devices with captive TB3 cables. Because TB2 doesn't carry USB, you can't use devices which speak USB (like USB hubs - they have to be TB devices), and you can't use it for DP video over USB-C (it doesn't support the DP alt-mode; you need a TB dock to demux the video out of the TB stream). However you can get just get at the mDP directly without the TB2/3 adapter.
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