I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the old spinning laptop drives
and NVMe the long strip storage device, if
there's a better way please let me know!
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:I don't think there ever was, but you seemed to be saying 8" floppies
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That
happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common use?
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That
happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
John Rumm wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:I don't think there ever was, but you seemed to be saying 8" floppies
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy.
That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25"
floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common use?
were actually 5¼", and 5¼" floppies were actually 3½" etc, and so on?
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That
happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common use?
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>,
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That
happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the old
spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology from
the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with spinning platters.
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy.
That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25"
floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common
use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest was 8"
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy.
That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" >>>>>> floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common
use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
On 31 Dec 2024 at 15:00:39 GMT, "John Rumm"
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of
the old spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology
from the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with
spinning platters.
Yes - SSD has *never* meant the old spinning drives, it has *always*
meant solid state.
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. >>>>>> That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" >>>>>> floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common >>>> use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest
was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
I didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8"
floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard
was the 5.25" floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in
common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the
largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
I didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
charles wrote:
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest
was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
I didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the old >>spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology from the >various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with spinning platters.
and NVMe the long strip storage device, if there's a better way please
let me know!
The form factor of what you are describing is M.2. M.2 drives are a
standard width - but available in a number of standard lengths. All M.2 >drives are SSDs. Some have a SATA interface (and the same 6 Gbps speed
limit of the larger SATA drives). (you can tell which is which - the SATA >version has an extra key in the edge connector which will stop a NVMe
drive plugging into a SATA only socket)
NVMe (Non Volatile Memory Express) is a different interface designed for
easy high speed connectivity with modern PCs. [3]
[1] If you have ever wondered about the sizes - in the home computer era
and into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That >happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide. The 3.5" drive was 2.5" wide - you get the
picture :-)
[2] Serial AT Attachment (where AT came from the IBM PC era PC "Advanced >Technology" - it was an evolution or what was called ATA (now bacronymed
to PATA), which moved much of the drive controller intelligence and >electronics onto the drive to save needing complex drive controller cards
in the computer. This so called "Integrated Drive Electronics" (IDE) drive >made storage more of a commodity item and reduced costs for PC makers.
[3] As the slower ISA (Industry Standard Architecture) bus of the original
PC gave way to much faster expansion buses, eventually the PCI (Peripheral >Component Interconnect) bus came to dominate. PCI itself evolved from a >parallel form to a serial form, and now PCI express (PCIe) is common on
most motherboards. NVMe drives are a good fit for that giving much more >interface throughput.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 09:39:17 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8"
floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard
was the 5.25" floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in
common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the
largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
There were certainly 12" IBM hard discs, they were used in varying
numbers in cartridges and packs. These would have been single-platter:
https://collection.motat.nz/records/im ages/xlarge/35981/d61657b448574f679dfc3c7b59123637ea9e823d.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/6027/5922510369_6fb28b729d_b.jpg
and they were certainly not floppy. There were various models, the one
I recall was a single-platter double-sided 2.5MB type. The
multi-platter packs were top loaded, the kind of thing you see in
computer rooms in old films.
In article <vl32g5$2nj79$2@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. >>>>>>>> That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" >>>>>>>> floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common >>>>>> use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest
was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm-system-360-12-inch-floppy-disks.1238454/
Did the screechy cassette drive (as used by my Vic 20) come before the floppies?
On 31 Dec 2024 22:22:05 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024 at 15:00:39 GMT, "John Rumm"
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of
the old spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology
from the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with
spinning platters.
Yes - SSD has *never* meant the old spinning drives, it has *always*
meant solid state.
And the early ones were exceptionally slow, slower than a spinning
drive.
I have an 8GB one in an Acer Aspire (soldered) and I found the machine
ran much quicker using an external USB 1.8" drive.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 09:39:17 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8"
floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard
was the 5.25" floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in
common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the
largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
There were certainly 12" IBM hard discs, they were used in varying
numbers in cartridges and packs. These would have been single-platter:
https://collection.motat.nz/records/images/xlarge/35981/d61657b448574f679dfc3c7b59123637ea9e823d.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/6027/5922510369_6fb28b729d_b.jpg
and they were certainly not floppy. There were various models, the one
I recall was a single-platter double-sided 2.5MB type. The
multi-platter packs were top loaded, the kind of thing you see in
computer rooms in old films.
In article <vl32g5$2nj79$2@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. >>>>>>>> That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" >>>>>>>> floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common >>>>>> use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the largest
was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm-system-360-12-inch-floppy-disks.1238454/
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>,
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8" floppy. That
happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard was the 5.25" floppy,
which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
On 31 Dec 2024 at 15:00:39 GMT, "John Rumm" <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the old
spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology from
the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with spinning
platters.
Yes - SSD has *never* meant the old spinning drives, it has *always* meant solid state.
Did the screechy cassette drive (as used by my Vic 20) come before the floppies?
On 31/12/2024 in message <vl10up$29i7r$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the
old spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology from
the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with spinning
platters.
But in practice questions about speeding up computers always include the advice to replace the hard drive with an SSD so its everyday usage is
SSD, a solid state device in the format of a 2.5" hard drive.
and NVMe the long strip storage device, if there's a better way
please let me know!
The form factor of what you are describing is M.2. M.2 drives are a
standard width - but available in a number of standard lengths. All
M.2 drives are SSDs. Some have a SATA interface (and the same 6 Gbps
speed limit of the larger SATA drives). (you can tell which is which -
the SATA version has an extra key in the edge connector which will
stop a NVMe drive plugging into a SATA only socket)
NVMe (Non Volatile Memory Express) is a different interface designed
for easy high speed connectivity with modern PCs. [3]
Again a search for NVMe returns the long pcb device so it seems to be an accepted way of differing between the two.
[3] As the slower ISA (Industry Standard Architecture) bus of the
original PC gave way to much faster expansion buses, eventually the
PCI (Peripheral Component Interconnect) bus came to dominate. PCI
itself evolved from a parallel form to a serial form, and now PCI
express (PCIe) is common on most motherboards. NVMe drives are a good
fit for that giving much more interface throughput.
Been there with all of that. I'm pretty sure our Display Writers had 8" floppies and I have a brand new 5.25" floppy drive here with a box of floppies that goes with my BBC Master. I also remember spending my
Christmas bonus one year on a 3.5" floppy from Viglen (in West London?)
and the Watford DFS for the Beeb!
Did the screechy cassette drive (as used by my Vic 20) come before the floppies?
John Rumm wrote:
NVMe however can be in form factors other than M.2 (just check out any
recent Apple product with the NAND flash chips soldered directly to
the mobo.
The newest M4 Mac Minis have proprietary plug-in cards that look similar
to M.2 but with only flash chips as the controller is on the
motherboard, so they're SSD rather than NVMe ... some brave souls are upgrading the chips on them by hot air rework.
On 01/01/2025 10:24, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 31/12/2024 in message <vl10up$29i7r$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of the old >>>>spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used >>>(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology from >>>the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with spinning >>>platters.
But in practice questions about speeding up computers always include the >>advice to replace the hard drive with an SSD so its everyday usage is
SSD, a solid state device in the format of a 2.5" hard drive.
True, but again that is confusing the form factor (2.5" mechanism) with
the drive technology. The actual shape of the enclosure is not what makes
it a SSD. Granted there have been fewer iterations of shape for SSDs with >2.5" and M.2 being the most common. (there are also some PCI card mounted >form factors)
and NVMe the long strip storage device, if there's a better way please >>>>let me know!
The form factor of what you are describing is M.2. M.2 drives are a >>>standard width - but available in a number of standard lengths. All M.2 >>>drives are SSDs. Some have a SATA interface (and the same 6 Gbps speed >>>limit of the larger SATA drives). (you can tell which is which - the SATA >>>version has an extra key in the edge connector which will stop a NVMe >>>drive plugging into a SATA only socket)
NVMe (Non Volatile Memory Express) is a different interface designed for >>>easy high speed connectivity with modern PCs. [3]
Again a search for NVMe returns the long pcb device so it seems to be an >>accepted way of differing between the two.
NVMe drives are never in the 2.5" form factor, the physical interfaces
would not be compatible.
NVMe however can be in form factors other than M.2 (just check out any
recent Apple product with the NAND flash chips soldered directly to the
mobo.
Thinking about it didn't the original Apple II have floppies and that
was before the VIC-20 and C-64?
NVMe drives are never in the 2.5" form factor, the physical interfaces
would not be compatible.
NVMe however can be in form factors other than M.2 (just check out any
recent Apple product with the NAND flash chips soldered directly to the
mobo.
On 1 Jan 2025 at 10:52:21 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 09:39:17 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8"
floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard >>>>>>>> was the 5.25" floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions
...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in
common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the
largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved
IBM typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking
about.
There were certainly 12" IBM hard discs, they were used in varying
numbers in cartridges and packs. These would have been
single-platter:
https://collection.motat.nz/records/im ages/xlarge/35981/d61657b448574f679dfc3c7b59123637ea9e823d.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/6027/5922510369_6fb28b729d_b.jpg
and they were certainly not floppy. There were various models, the
one I recall was a single-platter double-sided 2.5MB type. The multi-platter packs were top loaded, the kind of thing you see in
computer rooms in old films.
Were the drive mechanisms made by IBM and licensed to others? I see
DEC and HP labels on some of those. Also, you sure it was top loaded
(rather than slot-loaded)? From the second image, looks like that
wouldn't have been possible (unless the drive slid out on rails)?
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
No I don't think it did (I had a Commodore 64 back in the 1980s). I
Did the screechy cassette drive (as used by my Vic 20) come before the
floppies?
think there were 8" floppies and such in use in 'professional'
computers before then. The cassette drive was an 'as cheap as
possible' storage medium for the early home computers.
Thinking about it didn't the original Apple II have floppies and that
was before the VIC-20 and C-64?
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
NVMe drives are never in the 2.5" form factor, the physical interfaces
would not be compatible.
Cough:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.2
That's the same 2.5" form factor as a SATA SSD, but with a PCIe interface that uses the NVMe protocol. The connector is different, as you'd expect.
There is also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA_Express
which is an addon to SATA that carries PCIe, and thus allows drives to speak NVMe but be backward compatible with SATA. It's not very well used.
NVMe however can be in form factors other than M.2 (just check out any
recent Apple product with the NAND flash chips soldered directly to the
mobo.
Those aren't NVMe, on most Apple Silicon Macs they are raw flash that talks directly to the SoC. There are some older (~2018) Intel Macbooks that use single chip NVMes, and iPhones >5S also use them. Some 2016-17 have a removable proprietary SSD card that speaks NVMe (and is thus upgradeable), while pre-2016 the proprietary sticks are AHCI SSDs.
Then there's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card#SD_Express
which is NVMe to SD cards (via PCIe), and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFexpress
NVMe to CompactFlash cards (also via PCIe).
Finally there's NVMe over Fabrics, using ethernet or Infiniband, including over the internet if you're suitably crazy: https://www.snia.org/education/what-is-nvme-of
NVMe is a protocol... you can run it over anything. And people do.
No I don't think it did (I had a Commodore 64 back in the 1980s). I
think there were 8" floppies and such in use in 'professional'
computers before then. The cassette drive was an 'as cheap as
possible' storage medium for the early home computers.
On 01/01/2025 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
No I don't think it did (I had a Commodore 64 back in the 1980s). I
think there were 8" floppies and such in use in 'professional'
computers before then. The cassette drive was an 'as cheap as
possible' storage medium for the early home computers.
Floppies of any type, back then, were a very expensive option, so most
made do with a cheap cassette tape system. One brief cheaper option to cassettes, was the 'Floopy' - a contiuous 1/8 inch tape loop, in a tiny cartridge. designed for data, it would read, and write, at several times
the speed of cassette tapes. It had a catalogue at the start, and would
auto- fast forward, to the data needed. The interface was an S100. I
designed a way to adapt from S100, to my system,
On 02/01/2025 13:47, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
On 01/01/2025 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
No I don't think it did (I had a Commodore 64 back in the 1980s). I
think there were 8" floppies and such in use in 'professional'
computers before then. The cassette drive was an 'as cheap as
possible' storage medium for the early home computers.
Floppies of any type, back then, were a very expensive option, so most
made do with a cheap cassette tape system. One brief cheaper option to
cassettes, was the 'Floopy' - a contiuous 1/8 inch tape loop, in a
tiny cartridge. designed for data, it would read, and write, at
several times the speed of cassette tapes. It had a catalogue at the
start, and would auto- fast forward, to the data needed. The interface
was an S100. I designed a way to adapt from S100, to my system,
Not forgetting the Sinclair microdrive, a similar concept executed
cheaply :-)
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 09:39:17 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/01/2025 09:00, charles wrote:
In article <vl1r18$2e26g$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural PhilosopherI didnt find any evidence of that. Links?
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 21:30, charles wrote:
In article <vl193e$2b0r1$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 31/12/2024 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
into the PC era the first standard drive size was the 8"
floppy. That happened to be 5.25" wide. So the next standard
was the 5.25" floppy, which was was 3.5" wide.
Eh!?
We had proper 100% sized floppies, not 66% shrunk versions ...
I was not aware there was a floppy standard larger than 8" in
common use?
Our office used ones larger than that - 10" ?
I can find no record of such anywhere. The original and the
largest was 8"
I've found reference to IBM 12" floppies. Since our kit involved IBM
typesetting, I suspect these are the ones I was thinking about.
There were certainly 12" IBM hard discs, they were used in varying
numbers in cartridges and packs. These would have been single-platter:
https://collection.motat.nz/records/images/xlarge/35981/d61657b448574f679dfc3c7b59123637ea9e823d.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/6027/5922510369_6fb28b729d_b.jpg
and they were certainly not floppy. There were various models, the one
I recall was a single-platter double-sided 2.5MB type. The
multi-platter packs were top loaded, the kind of thing you see in
computer rooms in old films.
On 01/01/2025 10:55, Joe wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024 22:22:05 GMTEarliest SSD was core store...if you count ferromagnetism as solid state
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024 at 15:00:39 GMT, "John Rumm"
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 29/12/2024 20:20, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I find the naming very confusing, to me SSD is in the format of
the old spinning laptop drives
No, SSD = Solid State Disk and refers to the storage technology used
(flash memory). This is a completely different storage technology
from the various magnetic Hard Disk Drive (HDD) technologies with
spinning platters.
Yes - SSD has *never* meant the old spinning drives, it has *always*
meant solid state.
And the early ones were exceptionally slow, slower than a spinning
drive.
I have an 8GB one in an Acer Aspire (soldered) and I found the machine
ran much quicker using an external USB 1.8" drive.
:-)
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
No I don't think it did (I had a Commodore 64 back in the 1980s). I
Did the screechy cassette drive (as used by my Vic 20) come before the
floppies?
think there were 8" floppies and such in use in 'professional'
computers before then. The cassette drive was an 'as cheap as
possible' storage medium for the early home computers.
Thinking about it didn't the original Apple II have floppies and that
was before the VIC-20 and C-64?
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