Just occurred to me that the pumped system is a two way system.
That is, it uses electricity from the grid during low demand to pump water
into the reservoir, then in high demand it returns the electricity to the
grid (minus whatever).

For a true record, should the dial be plus and minus (like the
interconnects) to record when electricity is being extracted, and when it
is being returned?

Assuming, of course, that the extra data is available.

Just a passing thought.


Cheers



Dave R


--
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--
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On 07/01/2025 15:49, David wrote:

Just occurred to me that the pumped system is a two way system.
That is, it uses electricity from the grid during low demand to pump water into the reservoir, then in high demand it returns the electricity to the grid (minus whatever).

For a true record, should the dial be plus and minus (like the
interconnects) to record when electricity is being extracted, and when it
is being returned?

Tell Dinorwig that.

They (national griddont record what they use. Only what they generate,
France is the reverse.

Assuming, of course, that the extra data is available.

If it were, Id have included it


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/01/2025 15:49, David wrote:

Just occurred to me that the pumped system is a two way system.
That is, it uses electricity from the grid during low demand to pump water into the reservoir, then in high demand it returns the electricity to the grid (minus whatever).

For a true record, should the dial be plus and minus (like the interconnects) to record when electricity is being extracted, and when it is being returned?

Tell Dinorwig that.

They (national griddont record what they use. Only what they generate, France is the reverse.

This one:
https://grid.iamkate.com/

does show negative when storing the pumped hydro. She doesn't show
batteries because currently they only get discharge and not charging data.
The source code is published so you can check where the data comes from
(looks to be Elexon).

Theo

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/01/2025 15:49, David wrote:

Just occurred to me that the pumped system is a two way system.
That is, it uses electricity from the grid during low demand to pump water
into the reservoir, then in high demand it returns the electricity to the grid (minus whatever).

For a true record, should the dial be plus and minus (like the interconnects) to record when electricity is being extracted, and when it is being returned?

Tell Dinorwig that.

They (national griddont record what they use. Only what they generate, France is the reverse.

This one:
https://grid.iamkate.com/

does show negative when storing the pumped hydro. She doesn't show
batteries because currently they only get discharge and not charging data. The source code is published so you can check where the data comes from (looks to be Elexon).

Ah, I think the pumping data is from NESO: https://github.com/KateMorley/grid/blob/main/classes/Data/Demand.php

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On 07/01/2025 20:12, Theo wrote:

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/01/2025 15:49, David wrote:

Just occurred to me that the pumped system is a two way system.
That is, it uses electricity from the grid during low demand to pump water >>>> into the reservoir, then in high demand it returns the electricity to the >>>> grid (minus whatever).

For a true record, should the dial be plus and minus (like the
interconnects) to record when electricity is being extracted, and when it >>>> is being returned?

Tell Dinorwig that.

They (national griddont record what they use. Only what they generate,
France is the reverse.

This one:
https://grid.iamkate.com/

does show negative when storing the pumped hydro. She doesn't show
batteries because currently they only get discharge and not charging data. >> The source code is published so you can check where the data comes from
(looks to be Elexon).

Ah, I think the pumping data is from NESO: https://github.com/KateMorley/grid/blob/main/classes/Data/Demand.php

Ooh. That looks like it might have more data than I found.

But when I downloaded the link

https://data.nationalgrideso.com/backend/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv

in her code it just told me the data had moved.

Andy

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Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/01/2025 20:12, Theo wrote:

Ah, I think the pumping data is from NESO: https://github.com/KateMorley/grid/blob/main/classes/Data/Demand.php

Ooh. That looks like it might have more data than I found.

But when I downloaded the link

https://data.nationalgrideso.com/backend/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv

in her code it just told me the data had moved.

You have to follow the redirects:

$ wget https://data.nationalgrideso.com/backend/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv
--2025-01-15 20:52:12-- https://data.nationalgrideso.com/backend/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv
Resolving data.nationalgrideso.com (data.nationalgrideso.com)... 172.64.151.109, 104.18.36.147, 2606:4700:4400::6812:2493, ...
Connecting to data.nationalgrideso.com (data.nationalgrideso.com)|172.64.151.109|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: https://api.nationalgrideso.com/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv [following]
--2025-01-15 20:52:12-- https://api.nationalgrideso.com/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv
Resolving api.nationalgrideso.com (api.nationalgrideso.com)... 34.140.245.51 Connecting to api.nationalgrideso.com (api.nationalgrideso.com)|34.140.245.51|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: https://api.neso.energy/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv [following]
--2025-01-15 20:52:12-- https://api.neso.energy/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c-b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/download/demanddataupdate.csv
Resolving api.neso.energy (api.neso.energy)... 104.18.14.14, 104.18.15.14, 2606:4700::6812:f0e, ...
Connecting to api.neso.energy (api.neso.energy)|104.18.14.14|:443... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: https://83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com/dx-national-grid/national-grid/resources/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/demanddataupdate.csv?response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%3Ddemanddataupdate.csv&
response-content-type=application%2Foctet-stream&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-Credential=564ecf1b9cb7e605192d2953e7a993b9%2F20250115%2Fauto%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Date=20250115T205213Z&X-Amz-
Signature=8799468258b3ef9e6f9bc6945ea30fdcdde97af421f6162ac9e5ff8dbe4dbba7 [following]
--2025-01-15 20:52:13-- https://83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com/dx-national-grid/national-grid/resources/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/demanddataupdate.csv?response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%
3Ddemanddataupdate.csv&response-content-type=application%2Foctet-stream&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-Credential=564ecf1b9cb7e605192d2953e7a993b9%2F20250115%2Fauto%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Date=
20250115T205213Z&X-Amz-Signature=8799468258b3ef9e6f9bc6945ea30fdcdde97af421f6162ac9e5ff8dbe4dbba7
Resolving 83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com (83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com)... 141.101.90.96, 141.101.90.98, 141.101.90.99, ...
Connecting to 83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com (83025b28472d6aa2bf5ae59f3724aa78.eu.r2.cloudflarestorage.com)|141.101.90.96|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 255824 (250K) [application/octet-stream]
Saving to: ‘demanddataupdate.csv’

demanddataupdate.csv 100%[=======================================>] 249.83K --.-KB/s in 0.04s

2025-01-15 20:52:13 (5.70 MB/s) - ‘demanddataupdate.csv’ saved [255824/255824]

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On 15/01/2025 20:53, Theo wrote:

You have to follow the redirects:

$ wgethttps://data.nationalgrideso.com/backend/dataset/7a12172a-939c-404c- b581-a6128b74f588/resource/177f6fa4-ae49-4182-81ea-0c6b35f26ca6/ download/demanddataupdate.csv

That works. Thank you.

I now have their data back to 2009, right up to date.

Andy

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