On 07/02/2025 in message <ki2h7l-1tv6.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an >existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Comparing cost/work/time would it not be simpler to add an outlet behind
the sink that just drains it out by gravity (assuming current regulations
allow that)?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Captcha is thinking of stopping the use of pictures with traffic lights as cyclists don't know what they are.

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Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Probably something like this:-

https://www.asap-supplies.com/products/whale-gulper-220-shower-drain-waste-pump-12v-14lpm-19mm-hose-w-bp1552

But rather cheaper! Over £100 seems a lot, and it doesn't have any
sort of automation.

Most of the shower drain pumps seem to be a large box with a cheap
bilge pump installed in it, I could DIY that and basic bilge pumps
cost less than £10. It's "automatic" then but rather bulky and there
will always be a bit of water left which doesn't strike me as a good
idea.

--
Chris Green
·

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I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

--
Chris Green
·

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Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 in message <ki2h7l-1tv6.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an >existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Comparing cost/work/time would it not be simpler to add an outlet behind
the sink that just drains it out by gravity (assuming current regulations allow that)?

Do sinks drain directly into the canal, or into some kind of wastewater
tank?

Can't think it would be very good to be throwing soap, shaving foam, toothpaste, etc into the canal.

Theo

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On 07/02/2025 11:28, Theo wrote:

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 in message <ki2h7l-1tv6.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote: >>

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an
existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Comparing cost/work/time would it not be simpler to add an outlet behind
the sink that just drains it out by gravity (assuming current regulations
allow that)?

Do sinks drain directly into the canal, or into some kind of wastewater
tank?

Can't think it would be very good to be throwing soap, shaving foam, toothpaste, etc into the canal.

That sort of grey water, including discharge from washing machines
normally goes in the canal. The fish seem to like it, especially Zander!

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 in message <ki2h7l-1tv6.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an >existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Comparing cost/work/time would it not be simpler to add an outlet behind the sink that just drains it out by gravity (assuming current regulations allow that)?

Do sinks drain directly into the canal, or into some kind of wastewater
tank?

Can't think it would be very good to be throwing soap, shaving foam, toothpaste, etc into the canal.

Grey water is still mostly allowed, they stopped it in Paris during
the Olympics but we're not anywhere near Paris anyway.

--
Chris Green
·

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Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 in message <ki2h7l-1tv6.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an >existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Comparing cost/work/time would it not be simpler to add an outlet behind
the sink that just drains it out by gravity (assuming current regulations allow that)?

Possibly, but it's a fair old job cutting a 25mm or more hole in the
steel hull. You may be right though, I have cut holes for the gas
heater and I think they were 20mm.

The trouble is that the washbasin is a bit 'experimental', we want to
see if it works for us before making it very permanent.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Any chance of using a windscreen washer pump somehow, perhaps attached
to a leak sensor in some way if you want it to be automatic. Maybe a car
scrap dealer would have one at a low price if you want to try it.

--
Jeff

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Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Any chance of using a windscreen washer pump somehow, perhaps attached
to a leak sensor in some way if you want it to be automatic. Maybe a car scrap dealer would have one at a low price if you want to try it.

I'd have thought that would clog easily with hair etc?

A float switch would make it run automatically when there's a certain volume
of water. Although I'd guess some amount of water is likely to remain there until the float switch is triggered.

If you want to pump it dry, presumably need a pump that's self priming. Do washer or bilge pumps do that?

Theo

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On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 10:06:44 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an
existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any, drop
from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect water
and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

A long while back, but hire narrow boats used to have a pump for the
shower which was manually switched.
Obviously needed a pump as the shower tray was well below water level.
I know it would be nice to be automated, but wouldn't a simple pump do?

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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On 07/02/2025 17:35, Theo wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an
existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Any chance of using a windscreen washer pump somehow, perhaps attached
to a leak sensor in some way if you want it to be automatic. Maybe a car
scrap dealer would have one at a low price if you want to try it.

I'd have thought that would clog easily with hair etc?

I would have thought that it would be easy enough to fit a small
strainer plug at the bottom of the basin. If one isn't available
off-the-shelf, it could be cut from a small piece of stainless steel mesh.> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/TYUI-Stainless-Control-Proofing-Windows/dp/B0B6GN1CT8

A float switch would make it run automatically when there's a certain volume of water. Although I'd guess some amount of water is likely to remain there until the float switch is triggered.

If you want to pump it dry, presumably need a pump that's self priming. Do washer or bilge pumps do that?

Why would it need to be self-priming? Assuming you can get the inlet to
the pump from the washbasin outlet even a few mm fall should be enough
to prime the pump as the basin would have several cm of water in it.

--
Jeff

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Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 17:35, Theo wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an >>> existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Any chance of using a windscreen washer pump somehow, perhaps attached
to a leak sensor in some way if you want it to be automatic. Maybe a car >> scrap dealer would have one at a low price if you want to try it.

I'd have thought that would clog easily with hair etc?

I would have thought that it would be easy enough to fit a small
strainer plug at the bottom of the basin. If one isn't available off-the-shelf, it could be cut from a small piece of stainless steel mesh.> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/TYUI-Stainless-Control-Proofing-Windows/dp/B0B6GN1CT8

A float switch would make it run automatically when there's a certain volume
of water. Although I'd guess some amount of water is likely to remain there
until the float switch is triggered.

If you want to pump it dry, presumably need a pump that's self priming. Do washer or bilge pumps do that?

Why would it need to be self-priming? Assuming you can get the inlet to
the pump from the washbasin outlet even a few mm fall should be enough
to prime the pump as the basin would have several cm of water in it.

Bilge pumps don't have an 'inlet' as such, they expect to sit in the
water you want them to pump. I really want a pump that sits in a pipe
with an inlet pipe and an outlet pipe such that when water appears at
the inlet it pumps.

--
Chris Green
·

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David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:

On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 10:06:44 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an
existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any, drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

A long while back, but hire narrow boats used to have a pump for the
shower which was manually switched.
Obviously needed a pump as the shower tray was well below water level.
I know it would be nice to be automated, but wouldn't a simple pump do?

Yes, but.... Shower pumps are mostly just a bilge pump in a sump
under the shower. They don't get the sump very empty.

If there was an 'in pipe' pump that needed switching on I wouldn't be
too unhappy. Instead of pulling the plug you's turn the switch.

--
Chris Green
·

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Any chance of using a windscreen washer pump somehow, perhaps attached
to a leak sensor in some way if you want it to be automatic. Maybe a car scrap dealer would have one at a low price if you want to try it.

I'd have thought that would clog easily with hair etc?

A float switch would make it run automatically when there's a certain volume of water. Although I'd guess some amount of water is likely to remain there until the float switch is triggered.

If you want to pump it dry, presumably need a pump that's self priming. Do washer or bilge pumps do that?

No, that's the problem with any bilge pump solution. A bilge pump
sits in the (possible) water and when there's enough to lift its float
then it starts pumping. There's inevitably some water left behind
when it stops.

I don't think any sort of 'submersible' pump is going to do what I want.

--
Chris Green
·

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On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 19:01:28 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

If there was an 'in pipe' pump that needed switching on I wouldn't be
too unhappy. Instead of pulling the plug you's turn the switch.

As an outlier idea: if you have running water, maybe an injector pump?

Pressurized water (switch? valve?) to the no-moving-parts pump and it sucks the grey water out?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO


I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water, sucking pipes dry etc.


Thomas Prufer

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Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 19:01:28 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

If there was an 'in pipe' pump that needed switching on I wouldn't be
too unhappy. Instead of pulling the plug you's turn the switch.

As an outlier idea: if you have running water, maybe an injector pump?

Pressurized water (switch? valve?) to the no-moving-parts pump and it sucks the
grey water out?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO

I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or
opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water, sucking pipes dry etc.

Thanks Thomas, while that may not be exactly what I want for this
project it looks a useful sort of thing to know about.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Careful, it isn't like domestic plumbing. If the through-hull fitting is
below the waterline (the level of the water you are floating in,
outside) and the waste of the sink above it then it will drain. If the
sink is not above the waterline the flow will be reversed and the boat
will sink. The fall in the waste pipe has nothing to do with it.

As others say there are off-the-shelf solutions for pumping out bilges
and shower trays on boats.

TW

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TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:

On 07/02/2025 10:06, Chris Green wrote:

I'm thinking of installing a small (second) washbasin/sink in our
little boat, the easiest way to drain water from it would be to use an existing, rather distant, outlet which isn't used at the moment.

So I'm looking for a pump as I doubt if there will be much, if any,
drop from the washbasin to the outlet.

I can find shower drain pumps but they're way too large. Ideally I'd
want something that turns itself on somehow, I guess it can detect
water and run on a little afterwards to empty the pipework.

Any ideas anyone?

Careful, it isn't like domestic plumbing. If the through-hull fitting is below the waterline (the level of the water you are floating in,
outside) and the waste of the sink above it then it will drain. If the
sink is not above the waterline the flow will be reversed and the boat
will sink. The fall in the waste pipe has nothing to do with it.

Yes, I'm aware of the 'hole in the hull' risks! :-) The existing one
(hole that is) as a few inches abive the water line and, as it's a
canal and river boat, the risk is minimal. Even so I like to have a
robust drain fitting inside so even if the water outside does get up
to the hole it won't get in.

As others say there are off-the-shelf solutions for pumping out bilges
and shower trays on boats.

I (the OP) said that, however they are not really aimed at draining a
small sink/basin. I have three bilge pumps already! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

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On 08/02/2025 in message <mb2k7l-i0b7.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I (the OP) said that, however they are not really aimed at draining a
small sink/basin. I have three bilge pumps already! :-)

A portable bilge pump with power leads and hose, stick hose out of port
hole, hold pump in sink :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I was standing in the park wondering why Frisbees got bigger as they get closer.
Then it hit me.

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Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 08/02/2025 in message <mb2k7l-i0b7.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote:

I (the OP) said that, however they are not really aimed at draining a
small sink/basin. I have three bilge pumps already! :-)

A portable bilge pump with power leads and hose, stick hose out of port
hole, hold pump in sink :-)

Yes, however, as I have been saying all along, this doesn't empty all
of the water. Neither does the basically similar 'shower drain pump'
do any better.

--
Chris Green
·

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On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 09:13:09 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 19:01:28 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

If there was an 'in pipe' pump that needed switching on I wouldn't be
too unhappy. Instead of pulling the plug you's turn the switch.

As an outlier idea: if you have running water, maybe an injector pump?

Pressurized water (switch? valve?) to the no-moving-parts pump and it sucks the
grey water out?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO


I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or
opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and >> water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a
occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water,
sucking pipes dry etc.

Thanks Thomas, while that may not be exactly what I want for this
project it looks a useful sort of thing to know about.

I got mine at a Leftponian Wal-Mart for maybe $5. Paid for itself in draining the radiators and pipes: hook up to mains, suck and eject the mix of CH water and tap water into the bathtub drain. It will eventually suck all the low spots empty.

Also used here, (though there I used a better metal injector pump):

<https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Foam_toolbox_moulding>

Thomas Prufer

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Thomas Prufer wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO

I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or
opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and
water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a
occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water,
sucking pipes dry etc.

I got mine at a Leftponian Wal-Mart for maybe $5. Paid for itself in draining the radiators and pipes: hook up to mains, suck and eject the mix of CH water and tap water into the bathtub drain. It will eventually suck all the low spots
empty.

Is an 'injector pump' essentially a venturi?

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On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 08:25:10 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Thomas Prufer wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO >>>>
I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or
opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and
water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a >>>> occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water,
sucking pipes dry etc.

I got mine at a Leftponian Wal-Mart for maybe $5. Paid for itself in draining
the radiators and pipes: hook up to mains, suck and eject the mix of CH water
and tap water into the bathtub drain. It will eventually suck all the low spots
empty.

Is an 'injector pump' essentially a venturi?

Exactly that. Names I also found: eductor-jet pump, injector/ejector, filter pump, Venturi pump, water aspirator pump.


Thomas Prufer

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Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 08/02/2025 in message <mb2k7l-i0b7.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu> Chris Green wrote: >>

I (the OP) said that, however they are not really aimed at draining a
small sink/basin. I have three bilge pumps already! :-)

A portable bilge pump with power leads and hose, stick hose out of port
hole, hold pump in sink :-)

Yes, however, as I have been saying all along, this doesn't empty all
of the water. Neither does the basically similar 'shower drain pump'
do any better.

How “small” is this washbasin? Some of the condensate pumps designed for commercial installations have a reasonable flow and a tank capacity of 4l
to 5l .
You need to look around the ones available for Air con systems not the
titchy ones used for a domestic boiler.

GH

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On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 09:36:13 +0100, Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 08:25:10 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Thomas Prufer wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RPS-Products-DFK-Waterbed-Drain/dp/B000FT2PUO >>>>>
I have one of the above, and the thing on the outlet side closes the outlet or
opens it, causing the water to come out the top tee (closed) or suck air and
water down the top tee (open). The thing can be easily removed. It's a >>>>> occasionally-useful widget, starting siphons, getting the last inch of water,
sucking pipes dry etc.

I got mine at a Leftponian Wal-Mart for maybe $5. Paid for itself in draining
the radiators and pipes: hook up to mains, suck and eject the mix of CH water
and tap water into the bathtub drain. It will eventually suck all the low spots
empty.

Is an 'injector pump' essentially a venturi?

Exactly that. Names I also found: eductor-jet pump, injector/ejector, filter >pump, Venturi pump, water aspirator pump.

Thomas Prufer

There's also a whole slew of "submarine toilet" drain systems.

Lots of these drain into a tank, and use compressed air and a set of valves to empty the tank, usually to the outside, and usually with no chance of water entering through the hull.

Failure to sequence the valves right reportedly leads to spectacular failures.


Thomas Prufer

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