Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
Rescind state visit invitation to President trumptoken=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
To discuss with the King the rescinding of the invitation of a state
visit to President Trump in light of the disgraceful, disrespectful and bullying nature of the treatment of President Zelensky who represents a sovereign state and a people battling for their survival against an aggressor.
I want the government to present the case to the King that the
invitation represents the acceptance of aggressive, bullying politics
which favours the aggressive tactics of the oppressor while disregarding
the rights of a sovereign state to exist. Furthermore, Trump’s stance panders to Putin and puts the international security at stake
Sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
To discuss with the King the rescinding of the invitation of a state
visit to President Trump in light of the disgraceful, disrespectful and bullying nature of the treatment of President Zelensky who represents a sovereign state and a people battling for their survival against an aggressor.
I want the government to present the case to the King that the
invitation represents the acceptance of aggressive, bullying politics
which favours the aggressive tactics of the oppressor while disregarding
the rights of a sovereign state to exist. Furthermore, Trump’s stance panders to Putin and puts the international security at stake
Sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
On 28/02/2025 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
To discuss with the King the rescinding of the invitation of a state
visit to President Trump in light of the disgraceful, disrespectful and
bullying nature of the treatment of President Zelensky who represents a
sovereign state and a people battling for their survival against an
aggressor.
I want the government to present the case to the King that the
invitation represents the acceptance of aggressive, bullying politics
which favours the aggressive tactics of the oppressor while
disregarding the rights of a sovereign state to exist. Furthermore,
Trump’s stance panders to Putin and puts the international security at
stake
Sign the petition
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
As far as I can tell what Trump wanted was to be the smart deal maker
who cut a deal with Putin and over mastered Zelenskyy into a hot deal.
Zelensky said 'fine, but where are the guarantees'
Trump lost it and his narcissism , stupidity and childishness came to
the fore and he just looked like a spoilt baby throwing his toys out of
the pram.
And because narcissists are *never* wrong, it had to be Zelenskyy's
fault..
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
I wouldn't be in the Kings shoes for one pico-second. What a shitty job
it is being head of state when you'd rather be walking the hounds over
the Scottish moors...
If le Grand Petomane can't be contained, he will have to go.
How and by whom will be the next popcorn picnic
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
Rescind state visit invitation to President trumptoken=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
To discuss with the King the rescinding of the invitation of a state
visit to President Trump in light of the disgraceful, disrespectful and bullying nature of the treatment of President Zelensky who represents a sovereign state and a people battling for their survival against an aggressor.
I want the government to present the case to the King that the
invitation represents the acceptance of aggressive, bullying politics
which favours the aggressive tactics of the oppressor while disregarding
the rights of a sovereign state to exist. Furthermore, Trump’s stance panders to Putin and puts the international security at stake
Sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
I thought Zelensky held it fine, I would have fucked up Trump good and proper, after saying Zelensky started the war, thats why I am not aYep. Ive seen this behaviour in narcissists before. Rile the other
diplomat.
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 09:14:24 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-2nd-state-visit-for-donald-
trump
On 01/03/2025 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition: >>>https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? >>>token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
Approved by Trump or Musk ?
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
On 01/03/2025 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Approved by Trump or Musk ?
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians (including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year?
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians (including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year?
What general election?
On 01/03/2025 11:42, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 09:14:24 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:Pointless, even official petitions get ignored...
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-2nd-state-visit-for-donald-
trump
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians (including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May lastWhat general election?
year?
I notice
the poster of that bit of information was called Joe. "Stalin" by any
chance
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
In article <vpvi20$ap4r$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year?
presumably the one that Russia held in their occupied lands. I notice the poster of that bit of information was called Joe. "Stalin" by any chance
On 1 Mar 2025 at 19:49:47 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his
citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
Don't be silly. The country's at war, under invasion, and martial law applies.
We didn't have an election during WW2, as I recall.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
On 01/03/2025 11:47, David Wade wrote:
On 01/03/2025 11:42, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 09:14:24 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:Pointless, even official petitions get ignored...
No mail wrote:
Sign the petition:"No more people can sign this petition until it has been approved"
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-2nd-state-visit-for-donald- >>> trump
It didn't work when he visited the last time he was President. Not sure
how many signatures that one gained.
On 01/03/2025 18:45, charles wrote:
In article <vpvi20$ap4r$2@dont-email.me>,Unusual to find a Russobot on Usenet
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>> Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year? >>>>
presumably the one that Russia held in their occupied lands. I notice the
poster of that bit of information was called Joe. "Stalin" by any chance
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
On 01/03/2025 18:45, charles wrote:
In article <vpvi20$ap4r$2@dont-email.me>,Unusual to find a Russobot on Usenet
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>> Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year? >>>>
presumably the one that Russia held in their occupied lands. I notice the
poster of that bit of information was called Joe. "Stalin" by any chance
The King invited him and not parliament. A technical get out clause.
On 2/28/25 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
It seems as if the armchair warriors here are desperate to impoverish
the UK. First we have Brexit, then we have sanctions on Russia, pushing
up energy prices and causing massive inflation. Now you want to fuck off
the USA, leaving us isolated in a world that is likely to turn away from globalisation.
The UK needs allies.
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an >>election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first >>dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his >>citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.Blatant lie. Ukraine is at war and has every right to suspend elections.
IN opinion polls over 65% of Ukrainians support his leadership.
Have another slug of vodka Ivan. Its bedtime in St Petersburg
On 01/03/2025 in message <vpvumb$crmc$1@dont-email.me> Pancho wrote:
The UK needs allies. Alliances are formed by compromises. We all eat a bit >> of shit in our personal lives, in order to obtain a greater offsetting
advantage. Why can't people understand we need to do this in international >> relations?
Tell Trump and Vance, I suspect everybody else understands.
The UK needs allies. Alliances are formed by compromises. We all eat a bit
of shit in our personal lives, in order to obtain a greater offsetting >advantage. Why can't people understand we need to do this in international >relations?
On 2/28/25 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
Sure, if you want to follow the Zelensky, strategy of talking tough from
a very weak position.
It seems as if the armchair warriors here are desperate to impoverish
the UK. First we have Brexit, then we have sanctions on Russia, pushing
up energy prices and causing massive inflation. Now you want to fuck off
the USA, leaving us isolated in a world that is likely to turn away from globalisation.
The UK needs allies. Alliances are formed by compromises. We all eat a
bit of shit in our personal lives, in order to obtain a greater
offsetting advantage. Why can't people understand we need to do this in international relations?
On 3/1/25 20:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2025 18:45, charles wrote:
In article <vpvi20$ap4r$2@dont-email.me>,Unusual to find a Russobot on Usenet
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>> Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were >>>>> backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year? >>>>>
presumably the one that Russia held in their occupied lands. I notice
the
poster of that bit of information was called Joe. "Stalin" by any chance >>>
Joe's been around quite some time. I don't pay that much attention, but
my assumption was that he was a Reform supporter, much like you.
On 1 Mar 2025 at 21:37:15 GMT, "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:
On 2/28/25 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
It seems as if the armchair warriors here are desperate to impoverish
the UK. First we have Brexit, then we have sanctions on Russia, pushing
up energy prices and causing massive inflation. Now you want to fuck off
the USA, leaving us isolated in a world that is likely to turn away from
globalisation.
I wouldn't call the inflation we had "massive". And as the Times said today, quite likely it'll be Starmer that makes brexit "work". And anyway it already works - we are no longer part of a corrupt and bureaucratic entity pretending to be a European Government, but which is entirely undemocratic.
The UK needs allies.
Looks like we'll be looking for them closer to home, if EU countries actually manage to wake up and boost their defence spending.
On 3/1/25 21:50, Tim Streater wrote:
On 1 Mar 2025 at 21:37:15 GMT, "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote: >>
On 2/28/25 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
It seems as if the armchair warriors here are desperate to impoverish
the UK. First we have Brexit, then we have sanctions on Russia, pushing
up energy prices and causing massive inflation. Now you want to fuck off >>> the USA, leaving us isolated in a world that is likely to turn away from >>> globalisation.
I wouldn't call the inflation we had "massive". And as the Times said today, >> quite likely it'll be Starmer that makes brexit "work". And anyway it already
works - we are no longer part of a corrupt and bureaucratic entity pretending
to be a European Government, but which is entirely undemocratic.
If you don't think Westminster is corrupt and bureaucratic too, you
haven't been paying attention.
I'm also very dubious about the
democratic process in the UK. In a two party system, you just need to establish influence/control over two power structures rather than one.
The public then only have the opportunity to vote for one party you
control or the other party which you also control.
The UK needs allies.
Looks like we'll be looking for them closer to home, if EU countries actually
manage to wake up and boost their defence spending.
Defence against which threat?
Anyway, defence spending is mainly a red herring if it gets pissed away on vanity projects, like aircraft carriers.
What the EU (and the World) needs is sensible political
control structures, to enable viable defence/policing operations.
Carriers are not vanity projects, at least in principle. Our two were, I agree
(we should have either built two smaller ones). Equally stupid was designing them such that you then could only really use the F35, which is a stupidly expensive plane, so you can't afford to buy many, and you can't replace them easily.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an election.
People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
On 02/03/2025 13:20, Tim Streater wrote:
Carriers are not vanity projects, at least in principle. Our two were, I agree
(we should have either built two smaller ones). Equally stupid was designing >> them such that you then could only really use the F35, which is a stupidly >> expensive plane, so you can't afford to buy many, and you can't replace them >> easily.
If nothing else the Ukraine war should have taught our politicians that expensive military hardware easily can be crippled by relatively cheap
mass drone attacks. Maybe the era of the aircraft carrier is already over.
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
What general election?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill
was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his
citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians (including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last year?
On 02/03/2025 13:20, Tim Streater wrote:
Carriers are not vanity projects, at least in principle. Our two were,
I agree
(we should have either built two smaller ones). Equally stupid was
designing
them such that you then could only really use the F35, which is a
stupidly
expensive plane, so you can't afford to buy many, and you can't
replace them
easily.
If nothing else the Ukraine war should have taught our politicians that expensive military hardware easily can be crippled by relatively cheap
mass drone attacks. Maybe the era of the aircraft carrier is already over.
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000Blatant lie. Ukraine is at war and has every right to suspend elections.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>> Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his
citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
IN opinion polls over 65% of Ukrainians support his leadership.
Have another slug of vodka Ivan. Its bedtime in St Petersburg
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill
was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain was still at war with Japan.
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill
was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain was still at war with Japan.
In article <vq3lui$184q2$1@dont-email.me>,
Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit
an election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of
marshal law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs -
which I why we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you
claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain
was still at war with Japan.
but, by that time, we did not face any more air raids - or threats of invasion.
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill
was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain was still at war with Japan.
Defence against which threat?The EU, Russia, the USA and China.
Anyway, defence spending is mainly a red
herring if it gets pissed away on vanity projects, like aircraft
carriers. What the EU (and the World) needs is sensible political
control structures, to enable viable defence/policing operations.
Our main vulnerability is economic not military. It is dangerous to rely
on supply from a region that we have insufficient political influence
upon. On the other hand economies of scale mean the UK is too small to
do everything for itself. So we need to be part of a bigger group, both economically and politically.
The UK needs some kind of political alliance with the EU and/or USA. The EU,USA,China are much bigger than the UK, they can do it alone, in a way
we can't.
On 02/03/2025 18:06, alan_m wrote:
On 02/03/2025 13:20, Tim Streater wrote:
Carriers are not vanity projects, at least in principle. Our two
were, I agree
(we should have either built two smaller ones). Equally stupid was
designing
them such that you then could only really use the F35, which is a
stupidly
expensive plane, so you can't afford to buy many, and you can't
replace them
easily.
If nothing else the Ukraine war should have taught our politicians
that expensive military hardware easily can be crippled by relatively
cheap mass drone attacks. Maybe the era of the aircraft carrier is
already over.
People said that decades ago, regarding their vulnerability to air or
missile attack, but were proved wrong.
On 02/03/2025 13:20, Tim Streater wrote:
Carriers are not vanity projects, at least in principle. Our two were,
I agree
(we should have either built two smaller ones). Equally stupid was
designing
them such that you then could only really use the F35, which is a
stupidly
expensive plane, so you can't afford to buy many, and you can't
replace them
easily.
If nothing else the Ukraine war should have taught our politicians that expensive military hardware easily can be crippled by relatively cheap
mass drone attacks. Maybe the era of the aircraft carrier is already over.
The UK was lucky in the falklands that all the Argies had were exocets,
and we had a counter to it.
On 3 Mar 2025 at 16:03:08 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid>Something beginning with P IIRC... Puma? Ah no.Pucara turboprops
wrote:
The UK was lucky in the falklands that all the Argies had were exocets,
and we had a counter to it.
And a few aging fighter-bombers, can't remember what.
Which were fairly
susceptible to the SideWinders we were able to get from the Yanks. Damn lucky we had the Harriers. And a couple of smaller carriers to host them. Retiring them was another bit of foolishness.
What we need are submarines packed with these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Baby
Damn lucky
we had the Harriers. And a couple of smaller carriers to host them. Retiring them was another bit of foolishness.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we need are submarines packed with these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Baby
Though, notice the Musk/Starlink dish on top ... other LEO satellite constellations may be available, what's going on with UKGNSS and OneWeb?
On 03/03/2025 18:39, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:There are many more ways to extend a military intranet than via Musks starlink., and we would be fools indeed to rely on anything to do with
What we need are submarines packed with these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Baby
Though, notice the Musk/Starlink dish on top ... other LEO satellite
constellations may be available, what's going on with UKGNSS and OneWeb?
the USA or Musk.
On 03/03/2025 07:32, Handsome Jack wrote:
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit
an election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of
marshal law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs -
which I why we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you
claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain
was still at war with Japan.
and remind us in what year the previous GE was?
Now subtract one from the other... what time span do you get?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/03/2025 18:39, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:There are many more ways to extend a military intranet than via Musks
What we need are submarines packed with these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Baby
Though, notice the Musk/Starlink dish on top ... other LEO satellite
constellations may be available, what's going on with UKGNSS and OneWeb? >>>
starlink., and we would be fools indeed to rely on anything to do with
the USA or Musk.
That’s our nuclear deterrent buggered. Trump may well offer some appeasement to Putin by shutting down the service facility for our quota of missiles that at present come from a pool common to both nations.
GH
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about
it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 12:10:06 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2025 07:32, Handsome Jack wrote:
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit
an election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of
marshal law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs -
which I why we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you
claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain
was still at war with Japan.
and remind us in what year the previous GE was?
Now subtract one from the other... what time span do you get?
I dunno. I was just pointing out that we *did* hold an election in the
UK during the war, which proves that our constitution, at least, does
not permit them.
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about
it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I dunno. I was just pointing out that we *did* hold an election in the
UK during the war, which proves that our constitution, at least, does
not permit them.
... *does* permit them.
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about
it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 18:01:36 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 17:26, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:04:00 +0000What general election?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/03/2025 09:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 03:32:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well. We now know exactly what we have to deal with.
Some of us knew years ago.
No. I don't think you did.
I don't think many British people do now. How many have heard of
Victoria Nuland, or Maidan, or know why Biden's blanket pardons were
backdated to 2014? Or how many children of senior Biden politicians
(including, of course, himself) had oil company jobs in Ukraine?
How many know who won the Ukrainian General Election of May last
year?
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an election. People still call him 'President', but he's not the first
dictator to use that title. He does not govern with the consent of his citizens, either the Ukrainian ones or the Russian ones.
On 4 Mar 2025 at 09:42:25 GMT, "Handsome Jack" <jack@handsome.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about >>> it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
Welll it just took me less than 5 minutes to discover this in the article in Wikipedia on the Constitution of Ukraine (not even in Ukrainian):
From Article 83:
In the event that the President of Ukraine declares, by proclaiming a decree, a state of martial law or of emergency upon the whole territory of Ukraine or in some areas of the State, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine shall assemble within two days without convocation.
In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its powers are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine elected after the cancellation of the state of martial law or of emergency convenes its first meeting of the first session.
(Verkhovna Rada = Parliament)
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about
it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
On 04/03/2025 11:20, Tim Streater wrote:
On 4 Mar 2025 at 09:42:25 GMT, "Handsome Jack" <jack@handsome.com> wrote:or even ccu.gov.ua/sites/default/files/constitution_2019_eng.pdf
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says about >>>> it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
Welll it just took me less than 5 minutes to discover this in the article in >> Wikipedia on the Constitution of Ukraine (not even in Ukrainian):
From Article 83:
In the event that the President of Ukraine declares, by proclaiming a decree,
a state of martial law or of emergency upon the whole territory of Ukraine or
in some areas of the State, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine shall assemble
within two days without convocation.
In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its powers
are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine elected after >> the cancellation of the state of martial law or of emergency convenes its
first meeting of the first session.
(Verkhovna Rada = Parliament)
but Article 103 covers the election of the president.
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit an
election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of marshal
law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs - which I why
we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you claim Churchill
was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain was still at war with Japan.
On 3 Mar 2025 at 07:32:35 GMT, Handsome Jack wrote:
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit
an election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of
marshal law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs -
which I why we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you
claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain
was still at war with Japan.
The war in Europe ended in May 1945, so it became practical to hold elections.
Emergency powers from 1939 are still in force today - by your reasoning
all elections since are void.
On 4 Mar 2025 at 09:42:25 GMT, "Handsome Jack" <jack@handsome.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says
about it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
Welll it just took me less than 5 minutes to discover this in the
article in Wikipedia on the Constitution of Ukraine (not even in
Ukrainian):
From Article 83:
In the event that the President of Ukraine declares, by proclaiming a
decree,
a state of martial law or of emergency upon the whole territory of
Ukraine or in some areas of the State, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
shall assemble within two days without convocation.
In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its
powers are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
elected after the cancellation of the state of martial law or of
emergency convenes its first meeting of the first session.
(Verkhovna Rada = Parliament)
On 4 Mar 2025 11:20:09 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
On 4 Mar 2025 at 09:42:25 GMT, "Handsome Jack" <jack@handsome.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 08:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:
I don't know whether the Ukrainian constitution does, as I don't read
Ukrainian, and I am not inclined to believe what anybody else says
about it, not without corroboration from a reliable source.
Welll it just took me less than 5 minutes to discover this in the
article in Wikipedia on the Constitution of Ukraine (not even in
Ukrainian):
From Article 83:
In the event that the President of Ukraine declares, by proclaiming a
decree, a state of martial law or of emergency upon the whole territory of >> Ukraine or in some areas of the State, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
shall assemble within two days without convocation.
In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its
powers are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
elected after the cancellation of the state of martial law or of
emergency convenes its first meeting of the first session.
(Verkhovna Rada = Parliament)
Doesn't say anything about elections being illegal. Are you sure you've
got the right paragraph?
Incidentally, are the rules different for parliamentary and presidential elections?
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 16:13:46 -0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:
On 3 Mar 2025 at 07:32:35 GMT, Handsome Jack wrote:
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 18:34:20 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/03/2025 19:49, Joe wrote:
My point. Zelensky's term as President ended, and he did not permit
an election.
Their constitution does not permit elections during a period of
marshal law (as is common in many constitutions including the UKs -
which I why we held no elections for 10 years due to WWII. Would you
claim Churchill was a dictator or help no legitimacy?)
Simply false. There was a general election in July 1945 while Britain
was still at war with Japan.
The war in Europe ended in May 1945, so it became practical to hold
elections.
Sure. I agree. I'm simply pointing out that it was *not illegal* to hold
them in wartime.
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new? token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
On 28/02/2025 23:13, No mail wrote:
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go
unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?
token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
No, don't 'cancel' him.
Let's have him here, allow him to speak.
Hell, give him a scotch (or two)
Have plenty of witnesses
then, throw him in the tower ....
Apologies for politics, but what happened today in the US cannot go unremarked. Please forward far and wide.
Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
Rescind state visit invitation to President trump
To discuss with the King the rescinding of the invitation of a state
visit to President Trump in light of the disgraceful, disrespectful and bullying nature of the treatment of President Zelensky who represents a sovereign state and a people battling for their survival against an aggressor.
I want the government to present the case to the King that the
invitation represents the acceptance of aggressive, bullying politics
which favours the aggressive tactics of the oppressor while disregarding
the rights of a sovereign state to exist. Furthermore, Trump’s stance panders to Putin and puts the international security at stake
Sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/sponsors/new?token=S6YHbutBwy7SoiRvqp7a
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