Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether
there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would
be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would
at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether
there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would
be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would
at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
Your guess is as good as mine... but the Micra is supposed to be built on >the same AmpR Small platform in the same French factory as the Renault 5, so >chances are there's some degree of parts commonality. How much depends on >how bespoke Nissan want to make it. I'd guess probably a good number of
wear parts will be shared, with styling and interior being different.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault%E2%80%93Nissan_Common_Module_Family >suggests about 50% of parts of the AmpR Small (formerly CMP-B EV) are shared >with CMP-B cars like the Renault Clio.
I'd be tempted just to buy the Renault 5 instead. Or some other EV.
I am looking at buying the electric Nissan Micra once it is released.
However, I see that Nissan has fallen out with Renault (who are due to manufacture the new Micra), the French government and the previous CEO
(who escaped from Japan in a music box and now lives in Lebanon).
Also, it it seems that merger talks with Honda have broken down with
one report suggesting that in a Trumpian move Honda is demanding the resignation of the (present) Nissan CEO as the price for resumption of
talks. According to AI, the company has lost $60 million in its last
quarter and has "12 or 14 months to survive" without a new investor.
Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether
there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would
be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would
at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I am looking at buying the electric Nissan Micra once it is released.
However, I see that Nissan has fallen out with Renault (who are due to
manufacture the new Micra), the French government and the previous CEO
(who escaped from Japan in a music box and now lives in Lebanon).
Also, it it seems that merger talks with Honda have broken down with
one report suggesting that in a Trumpian move Honda is demanding the
resignation of the (present) Nissan CEO as the price for resumption of
talks. According to AI, the company has lost $60 million in its last
quarter and has "12 or 14 months to survive" without a new investor.
Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether
there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would
be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would
at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
The Micra has been announced today. First look video: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAee3IAMSCw
It seems like it shares a huge amount of parts with the Renault 5, so I'd >guess it'll only be exterior body panels that are different. As they're all >made in France at Douai, I wouldn't be surprised if Renault continue to make >them even if something happens to Nissan.
The factory tour is well worth a watch, by the way: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmXXWBWggo
On 21 May 2025 23:13:48 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:Thanks. I will do. I have signed up for the pre-release publicity.
I am looking at buying the electric Nissan Micra once it is released.
However, I see that Nissan has fallen out with Renault (who are due to
manufacture the new Micra), the French government and the previous CEO
(who escaped from Japan in a music box and now lives in Lebanon).
Also, it it seems that merger talks with Honda have broken down with
one report suggesting that in a Trumpian move Honda is demanding the
resignation of the (present) Nissan CEO as the price for resumption of
talks. According to AI, the company has lost $60 million in its last
quarter and has "12 or 14 months to survive" without a new investor.
Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether
there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would
be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would
at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
The Micra has been announced today. First look video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAee3IAMSCw
It seems like it shares a huge amount of parts with the Renault 5, so I'd
guess it'll only be exterior body panels that are different. As they're all >> made in France at Douai, I wouldn't be surprised if Renault continue to make >> them even if something happens to Nissan.
The factory tour is well worth a watch, by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmXXWBWggo
On a separate note, should Nissan go into administration, would this invalidate the warranty? This would be very bad news indeed in the
event of a battery failure. Do you think it would be possible to
insure the warranty against this administration of the grantor?
1. Do you expect the battery pack to be the same as the Renault 5
built in the same factory? This would allow an 'each way' bet on the availability of the traction battery.
As it is,
when you change out a pack in a BEV, there is a "priestly ceremony"
not available to many, where the car is "married" to the serial
number on the new pack. You can't even screw in a replacement
pack your own self -- it will not charge, it will not work.
Only with the correct software and garage facility, can
you change a vendor pack and have the car recognize it as
a valid item.
On Thu, 5/22/2025 4:09 PM, Scott wrote:
On 21 May 2025 23:13:48 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:Thanks. I will do. I have signed up for the pre-release publicity.
I am looking at buying the electric Nissan Micra once it is released.
However, I see that Nissan has fallen out with Renault (who are due to >>>> manufacture the new Micra), the French government and the previous CEO >>>> (who escaped from Japan in a music box and now lives in Lebanon).
Also, it it seems that merger talks with Honda have broken down with
one report suggesting that in a Trumpian move Honda is demanding the
resignation of the (present) Nissan CEO as the price for resumption of >>>> talks. According to AI, the company has lost $60 million in its last
quarter and has "12 or 14 months to survive" without a new investor.
Any thoughts on whether the new Micra will be built at all and whether >>>> there would be a material risk of the warranty collapsing (which would >>>> be very significant for the batteries in an electric vehicle)? Also,
is it likely to be mechanically the same as the Renault 5 (which would >>>> at least ensure continued availability of parts)?
The Micra has been announced today. First look video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAee3IAMSCw
It seems like it shares a huge amount of parts with the Renault 5, so I'd >>> guess it'll only be exterior body panels that are different. As they're all
made in France at Douai, I wouldn't be surprised if Renault continue to make
them even if something happens to Nissan.
The factory tour is well worth a watch, by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmXXWBWggo
On a separate note, should Nissan go into administration, would this
invalidate the warranty? This would be very bad news indeed in the
event of a battery failure. Do you think it would be possible to
insure the warranty against this administration of the grantor?
You do realize, that perfectly-solvent companies have
reneged on the warranty on BEV. They do this by claiming
they are "unable to make replacement battery packs"
and to go suckit. I don't see how the Nissan situation
would materially make that worse than all industry participants.
They would just have a different excuse to give you, before
telling you to go away.
The reason batteries fail, is "bad technique". A BEV should
have a heat pump, and should attempt to manage the operating
temperature range of the batteries. This may shorten the range,
while doing so, but by avoiding extremes of operating conditions,
the batteries are more likely to make it to old age.
Another thing that makes a difference, is usage pattern.
Driving to work a short distance every day, and using a weak
home charger, is ideal for a BEV. Doing one long distance highway
drive after another, charging at 350kW, that is hard on the battery.
In fact, one design, it keeps track of how often you fast charge.
If you do it four times in the same month, it denies fast charging
and you sit at the charging station on the side of the highway,
charging at a lower rate. And you don't get your 20 minute wait
or your 43 minute wait, the wait is a lot longer. The car computer
does this, as part of its "warranty gymnastics". This is also
why a certain brand of car has been tampering with the odometer,
to "sweeten" the warranty claim conditions. if you have "suddenly
used up all your miles" on the warranty, you'll not be making
a warranty claim for a knackered battery. The odometer is not
mechanical.
A thing to hope for, would be "standard" packs that charged
exactly the same way. Then, a company could not make an
excuse that it "could not make a pack", when the standard
packs of the epoch, would be after-market items. As it is,
when you change out a pack in a BEV, there is a "priestly ceremony"
not available to many, where the car is "married" to the serial
number on the new pack. You can't even screw in a replacement
pack your own self -- it will not charge, it will not work.
Only with the correct software and garage facility, can
you change a vendor pack and have the car recognize it as
a valid item.
Scott wrote:
1. Do you expect the battery pack to be the same as the Renault 5
built in the same factory? This would allow an 'each way' bet on the
availability of the traction battery.
Renault, fairly sensibly, seem to be using a few common batteries on the >Renault 4, Renault 5, Alpine (and supposedly Nissan/Mitsubishi too)
cars. They're all physically the same size regardless whether they're >40/52/70 kWh capacity.
I should think in future, 3rd party garages could replace batteries
amongst the whole family of cars?
<https://evpowered.co.uk/features/the-spark-of-innovation-powering-renaults-electricity/>
Another thing that makes a difference, is usage pattern.
Driving to work a short distance every day, and using a weak
home charger, is ideal for a BEV. Doing one long distance highway
drive after another, charging at 350kW, that is hard on the battery.
In fact, one design, it keeps track of how often you fast charge.
If you do it four times in the same month, it denies fast charging
and you sit at the charging station on the side of the highway,
charging at a lower rate. And you don't get your 20 minute wait
or your 43 minute wait, the wait is a lot longer. The car computer
does this, as part of its "warranty gymnastics". This is also
why a certain brand of car has been tampering with the odometer,
to "sweeten" the warranty claim conditions. if you have "suddenly
used up all your miles" on the warranty, you'll not be making
a warranty claim for a knackered battery. The odometer is not
mechanical.
A thing to hope for, would be "standard" packs that charged
exactly the same way. Then, a company could not make an
excuse that it "could not make a pack", when the standard
packs of the epoch, would be after-market items. As it is,
when you change out a pack in a BEV, there is a "priestly ceremony"
not available to many, where the car is "married" to the serial
number on the new pack. You can't even screw in a replacement
pack your own self -- it will not charge, it will not work.
Only with the correct software and garage facility, can
you change a vendor pack and have the car recognize it as
a valid item.
Thanks. I was not aware of this. If it is a Chinese vehicle, no doubt
Mr Trump can do a deal.
1. Do you expect the battery pack to be the same as the Renault 5
built in the same factory? This would allow an 'each way' bet on the availability of the traction battery.
2. My original question: do you think it would be possible to take
out insurance against administration of the manufacturer?
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Another thing that makes a difference, is usage pattern.Thanks. I was not aware of this. If it is a Chinese vehicle, no doubt
Driving to work a short distance every day, and using a weak
home charger, is ideal for a BEV. Doing one long distance highway
drive after another, charging at 350kW, that is hard on the battery.
In fact, one design, it keeps track of how often you fast charge.
If you do it four times in the same month, it denies fast charging
and you sit at the charging station on the side of the highway,
charging at a lower rate. And you don't get your 20 minute wait
or your 43 minute wait, the wait is a lot longer. The car computer
does this, as part of its "warranty gymnastics". This is also
why a certain brand of car has been tampering with the odometer,
to "sweeten" the warranty claim conditions. if you have "suddenly
used up all your miles" on the warranty, you'll not be making
a warranty claim for a knackered battery. The odometer is not
mechanical.
A thing to hope for, would be "standard" packs that charged
exactly the same way. Then, a company could not make an
excuse that it "could not make a pack", when the standard
packs of the epoch, would be after-market items. As it is,
when you change out a pack in a BEV, there is a "priestly ceremony"
not available to many, where the car is "married" to the serial
number on the new pack. You can't even screw in a replacement
pack your own self -- it will not charge, it will not work.
Only with the correct software and garage facility, can
you change a vendor pack and have the car recognize it as
a valid item.
Mr Trump can do a deal.
1. Do you expect the battery pack to be the same as the Renault 5
built in the same factory? This would allow an 'each way' bet on the
availability of the traction battery.
Yes, the chassis is the same as the Renault 5 and batteries are made by AESC >on-site at Douai.
I couldn't speak for software interlocks, but a battery from a scrap R5 >should be a straight swap. I would imagine the electronics are all R5 >underneath, ie you need to use Renault tools and not Nissan tools to talk to >them, in which case I wouldn't expect software incompatibility between Micra >and R5 batteries. ie the Micra is the R5 in everything except body panels.
I haven't looked, but the R5 has been around long enough that there might be >some info in the salvage community now how to swap batteries (eg car flooded >out, replace with one from crash vehicle). This is not Renault's first EV >and it's possible the coding procedure (if any) will transfer from their >older models - the Zoe is very well understood at this point.
That means your insurance against Nissan going pop is that you can pay a >third party garage to do a battery swap from a crashed vehicle, and then try >to claim that cost from somebody.
2. My original question: do you think it would be possible to take
out insurance against administration of the manufacturer?
I suppose you could find an underwriter to take that bet, ask a broker. Or >take out a third party warranty - you'd need to read the small print (it >probably tells you to claim on the manufacturer warranty first).
On Fri, 23 May 2025 09:55:01 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Scott wrote:
1. Do you expect the battery pack to be the same as the Renault 5
built in the same factory? This would allow an 'each way' bet on the
availability of the traction battery.
Renault, fairly sensibly, seem to be using a few common batteries on the
Renault 4, Renault 5, Alpine (and supposedly Nissan/Mitsubishi too)
cars. They're all physically the same size regardless whether they're
40/52/70 kWh capacity.
I should think in future, 3rd party garages could replace batteries
amongst the whole family of cars?
<https://evpowered.co.uk/features/the-spark-of-innovation-powering-renaults-electricity/>
Thanks. I shall ask questions about the battery in my research.
How long do you think it will be before someone comes up with the idea
that like trains electric cars should have a mid-life refurbishment?
Thanks. I shall ask questions about the battery in my research.
How long do you think it will be before someone comes up with the idea
that like trains electric cars should have a mid-life refurbishment?
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