Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also >requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
However, an appliance only draws the current that it requires doesn't it?
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott"
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off
it. If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting
the plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less
than 16, so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the
supply is rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16
amps through your plug. The current taken is determined only by the
device you've connected the plug to.
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it. If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've connected the plug to.
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? The
16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be able to
carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it. If the
plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the plug to better >> not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, so why d'ye think it >> would be dangerous? Just because the supply is rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean
that it's gonna force 16 amps through your plug. The current taken is
determined only by the device you've connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the "consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:06:07 GMT, "David Wade" <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it.
If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the
plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16,
so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is
rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through
your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've
connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no
fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
Perhaps we're more safety conscious? The Yanks, with their cheese-paring 110V,
are even worse off, with four times the heating effect (for a given
device wattage) in the cabling and plugs.
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 16:11:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:06:07 GMT, "David Wade" <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> >>>> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it. >>>> If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the
plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, >>>> so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is
rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through
your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've
connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no
fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
Perhaps we're more safety conscious? The Yanks, with their cheese-paring
110V,
are even worse off, with four times the heating effect (for a given
device wattage) in the cabling and plugs.
They can get 240V as most houses are supplied by 2 phases. A bit fiddly,
but you can work with it.
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
On 5 Mar 2025 15:38:27 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott"
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off
it. If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting
the plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less
than 16, so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the
supply is rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16
amps through your plug. The current taken is determined only by the
device you've connected the plug to.
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? The
16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be able to
carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
The point of a fuse is to protect anything downstream of it from a
fault current which may be dangerous. The point in this case is that a Euro-type plug is not fused, and that the flex leading from it must be
able to safely handle fault currents up to 1.5 times the rating of the
next upstream fuse, in this case, the circuit fuse. I believe the plug
itself will probably handle this safely, but it seems unlikely that a domestic lamp will be fitted with a flex able to handle 24 Amps for up
to four hours.
This is the question which is being asked, and I don't know the answer.
It may be that not all European circuits are rated at 16A, they may
have differentiated socket capacities as we did before the 13A plug and socket. That is obviously no longer the case in the UK, and the short
answer in this particular case is to fit a 13A plug fused appropriately
to the cable size, rather than just using an unfused adaptor. Since the
cable end will be stripped, the strands can be measured and counted to determine the cable capacity. It must be assumed that any wiring inside
the lamp is of equal capacity.
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
For something like a lamp there is no real need for overload protection
since the characteristics of the load limit the maximum load. There is
not much you can plug into a ES or BC lamp holder that would draw more
than saw 150W unless you want to get very creative.
On 05/03/2025 18:01, John Rumm wrote:
For something like a lamp there is no real need for overload protection
since the characteristics of the load limit the maximum load. There is
not much you can plug into a ES or BC lamp holder that would draw more
than saw 150W unless you want to get very creative.
You obviously weren't around in the 50s, John!
I can remember my mother
ironing using the overhead lighting socket to power the iron.
She
removed the 60W bulb and put a two-way bayonet splitter into light
socket. The bulb went into one side of the splitter and the iron was
plugged into the other side. I've a feeling, though, that irons in those
days were much smaller and of a much lower wattage (700W?) than they are today. The fuse box had 5A fuse wire to protect the circuit (and no, we didn't used foil from a fag packet as the fuse like many others did!).
So the fuse wire was easily able to cope with the 3A used by the iron
and bulb.
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 16:38:01 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 16:11:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:06:07 GMT, "David Wade" <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
wrote:
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott"
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps. >>>>>> How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off
it.
If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the
plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than
16,
so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is
rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through >>>>> your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've >>>>> connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no
fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
Perhaps we're more safety conscious? The Yanks, with their
cheese-paring 110V,
are even worse off, with four times the heating effect (for a given
device wattage) in the cabling and plugs.
They can get 240V as most houses are supplied by 2 phases. A bit fiddly, >>but you can work with it.
Can you use European appliances designed for one live and one neutral
when there would be two live inputs (presumably out of phase)?
On 05/03/2025 in message <naogsjl9rtkvch1agtp74sstchoenokcfo@4ax.com>
Scott wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
I too am curious :-)
However, an appliance only draws the current that it requires doesn't
it? I you plug a 2 watt appliance into a supply with a 100 Amp fuse it
will only demand 2 watts won't it?
On 05/03/2025 in message <naogsjl9rtkvch1agtp74sstchoenokcfo@4ax.com>
Scott wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
I too am curious :-)
However, an appliance only draws the current that it requires doesn't
it? I you plug a 2 watt appliance into a supply with a 100 Amp fuse it
will only demand 2 watts won't it?
If your 'phone needs charging and requires 10 watts to charge you can
use a charger rated at 10 watts or more, it will only demand 10 watts.
If you used a 5 watts charger in these circumstance it would get hot and
may catch alight.
You do have to get the voltage right for the charger.
Genuinely interested and awaiting expert input!
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? The
16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be able to
carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
On 05/03/2025 18:17, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:01, John Rumm wrote:
For something like a lamp there is no real need for overload protection
since the characteristics of the load limit the maximum load. There is
not much you can plug into a ES or BC lamp holder that would draw more
than saw 150W unless you want to get very creative.
You obviously weren't around in the 50s, John!
True, not even a twinkle in the eye :-)
I can remember my mother ironing using the overhead lighting socket to
power the iron.
Yes I had those in mind when adding the "unless you want to get very creative." rider... not something you see in common use today, and I
expect not something that many would even think of as an option. I
suppose you might consider a cheap 4 way extension lead a more modern
day equivalent!
She removed the 60W bulb and put a two-way bayonet splitter into light
socket. The bulb went into one side of the splitter and the iron was
plugged into the other side. I've a feeling, though, that irons in
those days were much smaller and of a much lower wattage (700W?) than
they are today. The fuse box had 5A fuse wire to protect the circuit
(and no, we didn't used foil from a fag packet as the fuse like many
others did!). So the fuse wire was easily able to cope with the 3A
used by the iron and bulb.
Indeed but that is just another example of the circuit as a whole
needing overload and fault protection.
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it.
If the
plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the plug to
better
not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, so why d'ye
think it
would be dangerous? Just because the supply is rated at 16 amps,
doesn't mean
that it's gonna force 16 amps through your plug. The current taken is
determined only by the device you've connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse when
in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 16:11:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:06:07 GMT, "David Wade" <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> >>>> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it. >>>> If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the
plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, >>>> so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is
rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through
your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've
connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no
fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
Perhaps we're more safety conscious? The Yanks, with their cheese-paring
110V,
are even worse off, with four times the heating effect (for a given
device wattage) in the cabling and plugs.
They can get 240V as most houses are supplied by 2 phases. A bit fiddly,
but you can work with it.
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it.
If the
plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the plug to
better
not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, so why d'ye
think it
would be dangerous? Just because the supply is rated at 16 amps,
doesn't mean
that it's gonna force 16 amps through your plug. The current taken is
determined only by the device you've connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse when
in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
On 05/03/2025 15:35, Jeff Gaines wrote:In practice there will be a far more fragile link in the device itself.
On 05/03/2025 in message <naogsjl9rtkvch1agtp74sstchoenokcfo@4ax.com>
Scott wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
I too am curious :-)
However, an appliance only draws the current that it requires doesn't
it? I you plug a 2 watt appliance into a supply with a 100 Amp fuse it
will only demand 2 watts won't it?
While the lamp will only take what it needs normally, there is no
guarantee that under a fault condition, it may not take considerably
more and overload the flex.
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also >requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
Most domestic supplies are fused at either 100A or 80A but you will not see that at any socket or light fitting as each circuit has its own maximum breaker. The amount of current in each circuit is determined by current
draw of the load. So for instance a lighting circuit may be fused at 6A but if you only switch one bulb on then the current measured on that circuit
will be dependant on the wattage of the bulb it will not be 6A.
A 5A rated cable can be connected to a 32A ring main as long as the load on that cable does not exceed approx. 1150W. A correctly fused plug ensures
that
Can you use European appliances designed for one live and one neutral
when there would be two live inputs (presumably out of phase)?
The internal fuse in the device will blow
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:47:11 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
I always understood that the fuse was there to protect the house
wiring i.e. the ring main, so that if a short develops in the flex
coming from the socket to the table lamp or whatever (the dog chews
through it, for example) then the ring main doesn't end up overloaded, overheats, catches fire and burns the house down. Never mind what
happens to the dog!
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also
requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
The general European idea is the socket would be on a 16A MCB radial, so fault currents would be limited to 16A. The UK has a 32A ring main, from which you could draw a 32A fault current - that's bad.
So instead plugs are fused at 13A. When you plug in an appliance, either it has an internal fuse (often non replaceable) or an internal design that inherently limits the current. So really the plugtop fuse protects from a nail through the flex or similar short circuit before the appliance.
Once you have a plug fuse, you can then replace it with a lower rated one,
to match a thinner cable. You can't do that woth a Europlug, but the cable may ultimately act as its own fuse.
It's about risks, failure modes and cost/benefit. UK and other countries' designs just land in different places on the spectrum.
On 05/03/2025 18:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:17, Jeff Layman wrote:Fumbling around in the dark trying to turn on a standard lamp I plugged
On 05/03/2025 18:01, John Rumm wrote:
For something like a lamp there is no real need for overload protection >>>> since the characteristics of the load limit the maximum load. There is >>>> not much you can plug into a ES or BC lamp holder that would draw more >>>> than saw 150W unless you want to get very creative.
You obviously weren't around in the 50s, John!
True, not even a twinkle in the eye :-)
I can remember my mother ironing using the overhead lighting socket to
power the iron.
Yes I had those in mind when adding the "unless you want to get very
creative." rider... not something you see in common use today, and I
expect not something that many would even think of as an option. I
suppose you might consider a cheap 4 way extension lead a more modern
day equivalent!
She removed the 60W bulb and put a two-way bayonet splitter into light
socket. The bulb went into one side of the splitter and the iron was
plugged into the other side. I've a feeling, though, that irons in
those days were much smaller and of a much lower wattage (700W?) than
they are today. The fuse box had 5A fuse wire to protect the circuit
(and no, we didn't used foil from a fag packet as the fuse like many
others did!). So the fuse wire was easily able to cope with the 3A
used by the iron and bulb.
Indeed but that is just another example of the circuit as a whole
needing overload and fault protection.
my finger into a bulb holder once. It was 1975, and I can still
remember, vividly the sensation.
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 16:11:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:06:07 GMT, "David Wade" <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 05/03/2025 16:38, Tim Streater wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 14:47:11 GMT, "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> >>>>> wrote:
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps. >>>>>> How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
If it's a 16-amp supply, you better not draw more than 16 amps off it. >>>>> If the plug is rated at 2.5 amps, your device you're connecting the
plug to better not draw more than 2.5 amps. 2.5 is a lot less than 16, >>>>> so why d'ye think it would be dangerous? Just because the supply is
rated at 16 amps, doesn't mean that it's gonna force 16 amps through >>>>> your plug. The current taken is determined only by the device you've >>>>> connected the plug to.
I think the question is why in the UK are we required to fit a fuse
when in the rest of the world they rely on the Circuit Breaker in the
"consumer unit".
Here in Spain the Air Fryer I have just purchased from Aldi has no
fuse.
As its 1.4kw in the UK it will have a 13 amp fuse.
WHY?
Perhaps we're more safety conscious? The Yanks, with their cheese-paring >>> 110V,
are even worse off, with four times the heating effect (for a given
device wattage) in the cabling and plugs.
They can get 240V as most houses are supplied by 2 phases. A bit fiddly,
but you can work with it.
Not 2 phases. One centre tapped phase.
On 05/03/2025 18:24, Theo wrote:
The general European idea is the socket would be on a 16A MCB radial, so fault currents would be limited to 16A. The UK has a 32A ring main, from which you could draw a 32A fault current - that's bad.
With respect, that's nonsense!
MCBs don't limit fault currents (or any other current) - only ohms can
limit current.
So instead plugs are fused at 13A. When you plug in an appliance, either it has an internal fuse (often non replaceable) or an internal design that inherently limits the current. So really the plugtop fuse protects from a nail through the flex or similar short circuit before the appliance.
Once you have a plug fuse, you can then replace it with a lower rated one, to match a thinner cable. You can't do that woth a Europlug, but the cable may ultimately act as its own fuse.
It is one of the reasons that many appliances have short cables. It
means the maker can cheap out on thin flex, and still stay just inside
the threshold where the flex will survive the anticipated fault current
for long enough to operate the circuit protective device.
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:24, Theo wrote:
The general European idea is the socket would be on a 16A MCB radial, so >>> fault currents would be limited to 16A. The UK has a 32A ring main, from >>> which you could draw a 32A fault current - that's bad.
With respect, that's nonsense!
MCBs don't limit fault currents (or any other current) - only ohms can
limit current.
They interrupt the current if you draw too much, ie the fault current is time-limited.
If you draw very too much, the time is limited even more.
The damage done by a fault current is usually due to heating and that's a function of both current and time. So the MCB limits the integral of
current over time, which is what causes damage, if not the instantaneous
peak current. Indeed, many appliances wouldn't work if they did trip based on an instantaneous peak current.
(I'm glossing over the fact that a 16A MCB won't trip at 16.01A even continuous, but it's highly likely that a fault current will be
substantially higher than the rated current so this won't matter)
So instead plugs are fused at 13A. When you plug in an appliance, either it >>> has an internal fuse (often non replaceable) or an internal design that
inherently limits the current. So really the plugtop fuse protects from a >>> nail through the flex or similar short circuit before the appliance.
Once you have a plug fuse, you can then replace it with a lower rated one, >>> to match a thinner cable. You can't do that woth a Europlug, but the cable >>> may ultimately act as its own fuse.
It is one of the reasons that many appliances have short cables. It
means the maker can cheap out on thin flex, and still stay just inside
the threshold where the flex will survive the anticipated fault current
for long enough to operate the circuit protective device.
That's notable on power tools - and of course people put them on extension leads.
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of
metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition.
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex on
it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the origin. The
plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut through the flex
next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you need
to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit resistance to
the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex.
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm in
the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the flex.
That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the flex could
be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse
in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time.
Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be
very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the "k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to safely
clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/ Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
Says he who just knocked out a substation in Leeds :-)
You can check the adiabatic current if you want. But there’s not much
you can do about the current that is drawn in a fault condition....
Says he who just knocked out a substation in Leeds:-)
It probably needed new fuses anyway so it keeps people in a job.
On 11/03/2025 20:10, ARW wrote:
You can check the adiabatic current if you want. But there’s not much
you can do about the current that is drawn in a fault condition....
Says he who just knocked out a substation in Leeds:-)
Nice :-)
How did that happen?
It probably needed new fuses anyway so it keeps people in a job.
On 05/03/2025 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of
metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition.
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex
on it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the
origin. The plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut
through the flex next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered
on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you
need to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit
resistance to the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex.
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm
in the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the
flex. That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the
flex could be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse
in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time.
Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be
very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the
"k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to
safely clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude
that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/
Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
You can check the adiabatic current if you want. But there’s not much
you can do about the current that is drawn in a fault condition....
Says he who just knocked out a substation in Leeds:-)
It probably needed new fuses anyway so it keeps people in a job.
Returning to my lamp, this was bought in Denmark and is fitted with a
two pin Europlug.
I was taught (probably at primary school) that the purpose of the fuse
was to protect the appliance including its lead from overload. It is
always said on this group and elsewhere that the fuse is intended to
protect the flex not the appliance. I can understand that a five amp
flex cannot be connected to a 32 amp ring main. However, how do we
know that the internal wiring is not restricted to three amps and also >requires a fuse?
In the case of the lamp, I believe a Europlug is rated at 2.5 amps.
How do the Danes conclude it is safe to plug this into a 16 amp
supply? I have fitted a two amp fuse.
I am genuinely curious.
On 11/03/2025 20:10, ARW wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? >>>>>> The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount
of metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault
condition.
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex
on it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the
origin. The plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut
through the flex next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is
powered on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you
need to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit
resistance to the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex. >>>
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm
in the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the
flex. That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the
flex could be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the
fuse in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short
time. Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses
can be very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the
"k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to
safely clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude
that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/
Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
You can check the adiabatic current if you want. But there’s not much
you can do about the current that is drawn in a fault condition....
Says he who just knocked out a substation in Leeds:-)
It probably needed new fuses anyway so it keeps people in a job.
Did this involve you being sarcastic to an apprentice along the lines of "Yeah, it is OK to put a metal bar across L & N before the cutout fuse
as a safe means of isolating a house before working on the CU"?
And said Apprentice went and put a tyre lever across said cutout?
Its one way of getting rid of the apprentices you don't think much of I guess...... :-D
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of
metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition.
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex on
it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the origin. The
plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut through the flex
next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you need
to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit resistance to
the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex.
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm in
the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the flex.
That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the flex could
be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse
in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time.
Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be
very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the "k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to safely
clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/ Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
On 05/03/2025 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A?
The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of
metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition.
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex
on it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the
origin. The plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut
through the flex next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered
on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you
need to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit
resistance to the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex.
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm
in the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the
flex. That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the
flex could be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse
in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time.
Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be
very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the
"k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to
safely clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude
that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/
Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
Yes... but... up top he was talking about Euro circuits where there is
no plug fuse. Surely Euro regs don't require a cable capable of taking
the full output of the circuit on a lamp?
On 17/03/2025 16:00, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? >>>>>> The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be
able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of
metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition. >>>
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex
on it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the
origin. The plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut
through the flex next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered
on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you
need to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit
resistance to the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex. >>>
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm
in the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the
flex. That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the
flex could be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse
in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time.
Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be
very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the
"k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to
safely clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude
that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/
Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
Yes... but... up top he was talking about Euro circuits where there is
no plug fuse. Surely Euro regs don't require a cable capable of taking
the full output of the circuit on a lamp?
The flex to the lamp does not need to be capable of taking the full
output of the circuit *continuously*, it just needs to be able to
survive the full prospective short circuit current[1] for long enough to
open the circuit protective device.
So here, that would usually be to survive until the 13A fuse in the plug >blows, and elsewhere, until the 16A breaker in the CU trips. (so in
reality, not that different)
That is what the adiabatic calc will attempt to predict.
[1] Which will be significantly *more* than the full circuit capacity
On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 23:18:55 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 17/03/2025 16:00, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 05/03/2025 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/03/2025 17:43, Joe wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 16:07:08 GMT
Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2025 at 16:03:11 GMT, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
So what happens if a fault occurs in the appliance which draws 12A? >>>>>>> The 16A circuit fuse will not fail, but the appliance flex may be >>>>>>> able to carry only 5A safely, and overheat dangerously.
Then the fuse in your plug blows.
This case was a Europlug, no fuse.
What now?
That is when you apply the adiabatic equation... [1]
You can do a "fault withstand" calculation to check that the amount of >>>> metal available in the conductors will safely handle the fault condition. >>>>
For example, let's say you have a table lamp with 2m of 0.5mm^2 flex
on it. It is on the end of a long circuit with a 32A MCB at the
origin. The plug has a 13A fuse in it. What happens when you cut
through the flex next to the lamp with wire cutters when it is powered >>>> on?
The first thing you work out the prospective fault current. So you
need to add up the external earth loop impedance, the circuit
resistance to the socket, and the resistance to the far end of the flex. >>>>
Let's say that is 0.35 ohms for the external earth loop, another ohm
in the circuit wires, and another 0.15 ohms for the far end of the
flex. That is 1.5 ohms. So the fault current at the far end of the
flex could be 230 / 1.5 = 153A. Sounds like a lot for a 3A flex!
However on the bright side that is comfortably enough to blow the fuse >>>> in the plug, so it will only carry that current for a very short time. >>>> Let's assume 0.1 secs (in reality it could be much less - fuses can be >>>> very fast for massive fault currents).
We can assume all the cables have PVC insulation - so we can use the
"k factor" of 115, in the equation:
s = sqrt( I^2 . t ) / k
s = sqrt( 153^2 x 0.1 ) / 115
s = 0.42mm^2
So you need at least 0.42mm^2 of copper cable area to be able to
safely clear the fault by blowing the plug fuse, and we can conclude
that the 0.5mm^2 flex will live to fight another day.
[1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/
Calculating_A_Cable_Size#Adiabatic_Check
Yes... but... up top he was talking about Euro circuits where there is
no plug fuse. Surely Euro regs don't require a cable capable of taking
the full output of the circuit on a lamp?
That was me !!! And indeed, this is what I was wondering about (as
well as the 2.5A rated Europlug).
The flex to the lamp does not need to be capable of taking the full
output of the circuit *continuously*, it just needs to be able to
survive the full prospective short circuit current[1] for long enough to
open the circuit protective device.
So here, that would usually be to survive until the 13A fuse in the plug
blows, and elsewhere, until the 16A breaker in the CU trips. (so in
reality, not that different)
If it is a 13A fuse. When I was a boy, we used 2, 3 and 5 amp fuses
for the smaller appliances. I still fit the smaller fuses where I know
I can (as I have a big stock of them).
On 18/03/2025 10:01, Scott wrote:[snip]
If it is a 13A fuse. When I was a boy, we used 2, 3 and 5 amp fuses
for the smaller appliances. I still fit the smaller fuses where I know
I can (as I have a big stock of them).
Nothing wrong with using more closely matched fuses and it is still good >practice. However these days a maker of an appliance will want to sell
it in multiple markets, and so has to accept that in many of those, the
plug fuse won't be there.
Hence why you design your product so that when bad stuff happens it
still fails safe.
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