I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving (especially for red wires).
Scott wrote:
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Obviously they're not intended to be snipped, but you see too many
backboxes without them fitted.
If you were concerned you could superglue it back together after
fitting, I doubt the Part P Taliban would behead you for it ...
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the
other hand...
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Scott wrote:
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Obviously they're not intended to be snipped, but you see too many
backboxes without them fitted.
If you were concerned you could superglue it back together after
fitting, I doubt the Part P Taliban would behead you for it ...
On 14/03/2025 09:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Scott wrote:
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Obviously they're not intended to be snipped, but you see too many
backboxes without them fitted.
If you were concerned you could superglue it back together after
fitting, I doubt the Part P Taliban would behead you for it ...
The chances are that once fitted you will not be able to see the cut.
What is the recommendation for plastic surface mount back boxes. When >knocking out the plastic to feed through a cable the edge of the plastic
is often knife sharp. As a DIYer I always take a file to the hole to at
least smooth off the rough razor sharp edge but I've seen videos where
the professionals just drive through the plastic with any tool that
comes to hand (screwdriver, handle of pliers etc.) and then just fit the >plastic box.
Obviously a cut wire cannot short out on a plastic box but the sharp
edge could cut through a couple of layer of insulation if the wires are >moved, possibly at a later date.
On 14/03/2025 09:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Scott wrote:
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Obviously they're not intended to be snipped, but you see too many
backboxes without them fitted.
If you were concerned you could superglue it back together after
fitting, I doubt the Part P Taliban would behead you for it ...
The chances are that once fitted you will not be able to see the cut.
What is the recommendation for plastic surface mount back boxes. When knocking out the plastic to feed through a cable the edge of the plastic
is often knife sharp. As a DIYer I always take a file to the hole to at
least smooth off the rough razor sharp edge but I've seen videos where
the professionals just drive through the plastic with any tool that
comes to hand (screwdriver, handle of pliers etc.) and then just fit the plastic box.
Obviously a cut wire cannot short out on a plastic box but the sharp
edge could cut through a couple of layer of insulation if the wires are moved, possibly at a later date.
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my >>>> living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to >>>> find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I >>>> don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the
other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
On 14/03/2025 10:53, alan_m wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:34, Andy Burns wrote:My experience suggests that house wires *once installed* do not move and
Scott wrote:
can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
Obviously they're not intended to be snipped, but you see too many
backboxes without them fitted.
If you were concerned you could superglue it back together after
fitting, I doubt the Part P Taliban would behead you for it ...
The chances are that once fitted you will not be able to see the cut.
What is the recommendation for plastic surface mount back boxes. When
knocking out the plastic to feed through a cable the edge of the
plastic is often knife sharp. As a DIYer I always take a file to the
hole to at least smooth off the rough razor sharp edge but I've seen
videos where the professionals just drive through the plastic with any
tool that comes to hand (screwdriver, handle of pliers etc.) and then
just fit the plastic box.
Obviously a cut wire cannot short out on a plastic box but the sharp
edge could cut through a couple of layer of insulation if the wires
are moved, possibly at a later date.
get sliced. Installation however is quite another matter, T-shirt
available :-(
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my >>>>> living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to >>>>> find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I >>>>> don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope >>> for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it >>> for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the
other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my >>>>>> living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to >>>>>> find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I >>>>>> don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were
bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change
these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any
cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving >>>>> (especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does >>>> not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope >>>> for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it >>>> for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the
other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length
perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did
it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on
to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a
tight fit.
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my >>>>>>> living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to >>>>>>> find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I >>>>>>> don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving >>>>>> (especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does >>>>> not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope >>>>> for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it >>>>> for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the
other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length
perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did
it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on
to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a
tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a
fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal
back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box
earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my >>>>>>>> living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to >>>>>>>> find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I >>>>>>>> don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving >>>>>>> (especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does >>>>>> not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope >>>>>> for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it >>>>>> for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length
perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did
it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on
to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a
tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a
fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal
back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box
earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving >>>>>>>> (especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does >>>>>>> not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did
it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on
to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a
tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a
fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal >>> back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box
earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as
well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
(if so, not much to worry about anyway)
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light
switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO >>>>>>>>> only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen
lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about
sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion.
Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not
much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually
using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the
cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did
it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on
to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a
tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a
fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal >>> back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box
earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as
well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
(if so, not much to worry about anyway)
On 16/03/2025 23:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light
switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO >>>>>>>>>> only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen >>>>>>>>>> lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, >>>>>>>>>> so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a >>>>>>>>>> red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. >>>>>>>>>> Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about >>>>>>>>> sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. >>>>>>>> Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not
much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually >>>>>>>> using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is
little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the >>>>>>> cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did >>>>> it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on >>>>> to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a >>>>> tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a >>>> fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a
metal
back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box >>>> earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones
as well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
(if so, not much to worry about anyway)
A stray live contacting a poorly earthed back box would make the (contactable) faceplate screws live - at least in older installations
where lights don't have RCD protection.
On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:38:05 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving >>>>>>>>> (especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the >>>>>>> cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did >>>>> it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on >>>>> to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a >>>>> tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a >>>> fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal >>>> back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box >>>> earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as
well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
This is the one I intend to use. The problem was that the earth wire
was too short to reach the terminal comfortably which I assume is why
it was done the way it was but I have now (effortlessly) extended it
using an in-line connector.
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
No, it is made of steel and is. My concern is that the screws could
become live if the box became live!
On 17/03/2025 08:49, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:38:05 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the >>>>>>>> cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did >>>>>> it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on >>>>>> to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a >>>>>> tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a >>>>> fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal >>>>> back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box >>>>> earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box
only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as >>> well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
This is the one I intend to use. The problem was that the earth wire
was too short to reach the terminal comfortably which I assume is why
it was done the way it was but I have now (effortlessly) extended it
using an in-line connector.
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
No, it is made of steel and is. My concern is that the screws could
become live if the box became live!
Steel is not a guarantee that it is class I - some are class II. (having
an earth terminal on the switch would be a clue though!). It should be
marked to indicate if it is class II (double insulated).
If it is class one, then the screw holes would normally pass through an >earthed bit or metalwork.
On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 21:15:06 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 17/03/2025 08:49, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:38:05 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is >>>>>>>>>>>> there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red >>>>>>>>>>>> wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I >>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little >>>>>>>>>> added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now
discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the >>>>>>>>> cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none.
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did >>>>>>> it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on >>>>>>> to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a >>>>>>> tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a >>>>>> fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal >>>>>> back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box >>>>>> earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box >>>>> only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I
Many metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as >>>> well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
This is the one I intend to use. The problem was that the earth wire
was too short to reach the terminal comfortably which I assume is why
it was done the way it was but I have now (effortlessly) extended it
using an in-line connector.
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire
using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
No, it is made of steel and is. My concern is that the screws could
become live if the box became live!
Steel is not a guarantee that it is class I - some are class II. (having
an earth terminal on the switch would be a clue though!). It should be
marked to indicate if it is class II (double insulated).
If it is class one, then the screw holes would normally pass through an
earthed bit or metalwork.
The switch is MK plastic with no provision for an earth. The back box
is steel and the earth wire was connected to the screw that attaches
the back box to the wall instead of the dedicated earthing terminal
(because the earth wire was too short). I have now extended the earth
wire using an in-line connector and attached it to the earthing
terminal. I assume - and hope - this is now okay.
On 17/03/2025 21:32, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 21:15:06 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 17/03/2025 08:49, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:38:05 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 16/03/2025 17:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 15:04:48 +0000, John RummMany metal boxes have a dedicated terminal (in fact some plastic ones as >>>>> well so there is somewhere to "park" the earth).
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 15/03/2025 09:33, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:03:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 14/03/2025 09:24, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:07:27 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2025 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:31:00 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I wanted to swap round the two switches of a double light switch in my
living room. First I switched off the 'downstairs lights' RCBO only to
find (on checking) that the lounge is connected to 'kitchen lights'. I
don't think I'll trust these RCBOs again :-)
I reversed the cables at the the top. As the two COM inputs were >>>>>>>>>>>>> bridged with a (red) cable, I decided there was no need to change >>>>>>>>>>>>> these. I assume this is okay so far. All the cables are red, so is
there any need to add brown sleeving when it is obvious what a red
wire means in a 'mixed wiring' situation? There is no gromet. Am I
allowed to cut a gromet to install this without disconnecting any >>>>>>>>>>>>> cables or is this regarded as bad practice?
PS. I have googled and there seem to be mixed opinions about sleeving
(especially for red wires).
Much depends on context and what scope there is for confusion. Red does
not appear in the harmonised colours anywhere so there is not much scope
for it being taken as anything else. So unless you are actually using it
for some other purpose where it must be over marked, there is little
added value IMHO.
Blue (was line, now neutral), Black (was negative, now live) on the >>>>>>>>>>> other hand...
Thanks. And can I cut the grommet (not gromet as I have now >>>>>>>>>> discovered) to retrofit or it it best practice to disconnect the >>>>>>>>>> cables to fit the grommet?
You can cut them, and a cut grommet will be better than none. >>>>>>>>>
(in fact you can also get grommet strip designed for arbitrary length >>>>>>>>> perimeter holes in metal plates etc).
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.
The cut grommet fitted perfectly. Would you believe that whoever did >>>>>>>> it before connected the earth wire to the screw that holds the box on >>>>>>>> to the wall instead of the earthing terminal? I moved it but it was a >>>>>>>> tight fit.
While best practice would connect earth to the socket, and then have a >>>>>>> fly lead to the earth terminal on the box, it is acceptable with a metal
back box to rely on the screws to the socket to join the socket and box >>>>>>> earth so long as the back box has at least one "fixed" lug.
No, it is a light switch so the screws are connected to the back box >>>>>> only. The earth wire is connected to the box using the screw that
fixes the box to the wall. I'm guessing this is probably okay but I >>>>>
This is the one I intend to use. The problem was that the earth wire
was too short to reach the terminal comfortably which I assume is why
it was done the way it was but I have now (effortlessly) extended it
using an in-line connector.
would be happier to use the dedicated earthing point where the
connection seems to be more secure. I have extended the earth wire >>>>>> using an in-line connector to allow it to fit.
Is it a double insulated (i.e. plastic) light switch?
No, it is made of steel and is. My concern is that the screws could
become live if the box became live!
So you are just referring to the box there and not the switch?
Steel is not a guarantee that it is class I - some are class II. (having >>> an earth terminal on the switch would be a clue though!). It should be
marked to indicate if it is class II (double insulated).
If it is class one, then the screw holes would normally pass through an
earthed bit or metalwork.
The switch is MK plastic with no provision for an earth. The back box
is steel and the earth wire was connected to the screw that attaches
the back box to the wall instead of the dedicated earthing terminal
(because the earth wire was too short). I have now extended the earth
wire using an in-line connector and attached it to the earthing
terminal. I assume - and hope - this is now okay.
Yup that is ok.
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