Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling. EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The criteria
to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are not very competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to become an Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is minimal, we
paid £55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than 20 minutes,
so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will be done to properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Meeting the current Building regs is what matters, so if it meets the requirements, there should be no problem in getting approval.
On 20/03/2025 07:49, Alan Lee wrote:
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling. EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The
criteria to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are
not very competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to
become an Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is
minimal, we paid £55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than
20 minutes, so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will
be done to properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Meeting the current Building regs is what matters, so if it meets the
requirements, there should be no problem in getting approval.
OK. So the *F* is not accurate.
For a conversion designed/approved and mostly built during 2024, what
minimum level of thermal performance would have been required to meet BR?
The builder whinged about the amount of insulation required!
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling. EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The criteria
to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are not very competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to become an Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is minimal, we
paid £55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than 20 minutes,
so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will be done to properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The criteria
to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are not very >competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to become an >Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is minimal, we
paid 55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than 20 minutes,
so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will be done to >properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Meeting the current Building regs is what matters, so if it meets the >requirements, there should be no problem in getting approval.
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Then I spotted on the front door SIX door bell pushes.
Ah, it's an AirBnB...
Not sure where their sewer vent pipe goes, it's missing?
So the F is not accurate.
On 20/03/2025 08:54, Timatmarford wrote:
On 20/03/2025 07:49, Alan Lee wrote:
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling. EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The
criteria to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are
not very competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to
become an Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is
minimal, we paid £55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than
20 minutes, so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will
be done to properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Meeting the current Building regs is what matters, so if it meets the
requirements, there should be no problem in getting approval.
OK. So the *F* is not accurate.
For a conversion designed/approved and mostly built during 2024, what
minimum level of thermal performance would have been required to meet BR?
The builder whinged about the amount of insulation required!
He would!...
https://www.cncbuildingcontrol.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/CNCD-052-Garage-Conversion-Easy-Guide.pdf
or
https://tinyurl.com/ye922ssu
specifies a U-Values for existing walls, new walls, floors, roof, doors
and windows. The latter is especially interesting :-
"Windows should be draught proofed and double glazed to achieve a U
value not exceeding 1.4w/m2K (e.g. Low E glass and Argon filled) or
Window Energy Rating (WER) Band C"
.....
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Not sure where their sewer vent pipe goes, it's missing?
Probably been replaced by an Air Admittance Valve (aka Durgo) tucked
away behind some boxing-in, I think technically they should ask before
doing that, but ...
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling. EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling. >>> EPC assessed at F!
EPCs are a joke. Take as little notice of them as possible. The criteria
to rate the house is rubbish, and many of the Assessors are not very
competent in assessing the building - it is a 5 day course to become an
Assessor, no previous experience required, and the cost is minimal, we
paid £55 when we sold our house, he was here for less than 20 minutes,
so from that it is quite easy to see that little work will be done to
properly assess the energy efficiency of the house.
What's interesting is that you can't rent out a property with an EPC below
E. Such conversions are often prime fodder for rentals because many people don't want to buy a property that sits surrounded by somebody else's land, even if there are rights of access.
You can get an exemption: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-rented-sector-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-exemptions/guidance-on-prs-exemptions-and-exemptions-register-evidence-requirements
but it's limited and it still doesn't look good on the rental advert.
I wonder if getting a new EPC from a different assessor would result in an
E, which at least means it's rentable.
It would be interesting to see the EPC condition rating (walls, floor, roof, heating etc) and whether there's anything in there that might have triggered an F. Perhaps electric heating may have pulled them down?
Something has!
Lots of new double glazing front and back. Folding doors to patio. I
don't know if they dug a new foundation trench where the old garage
doors were. The structure looks to be lightweight.
The ground floor is underfloor electric on some fancy tariff due to the
solar panels. Upstairs is pumped radiators from an electric heater.
How long is that tariff going to last?
https://www.hamptons.co.uk/properties/19888164/sales/A1NQ500000CUAYUIAT#/
Good neighbours next door:-)
Timatmarford wrote:
So the F is not accurate.
Have you looked it up on the EPC website?
<https://find-energy-certificate.service.gov.uk/find-a-certificate/type- of-property>
https://www.hamptons.co.uk/properties/19888164/sales/A1NQ500000CUAYUIAT#/
Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
Then I spotted on the front door SIX door bell pushes.
Ah, it's an AirBnB...
That sounds like an HMO. An AirBnb would be less likely to have bell pushes because holiday lets don't tend to have visitors - would be more likely to have 6 key lock boxes.
Unless each 'flat' has a separate bathroom and kitchen, in which case they would be 'studio apartments'. Seems like there's no space for that.
Count the cookers:
https://www.mchughandco.com/lot/details/143794
Timatmarford wrote:
https://www.hamptons.co.uk/properties/19888164/sales/A1NQ500000CUAYUIAT#/
Shows a "D" EPC, not an "F"?
On 20 Mar 2025 at 18:36:02 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
https://www.hamptons.co.uk/properties/19888164/sales/A1NQ500000CUAYUIAT#/ >>Shows a "D" EPC, not an "F"?
Seems it's not been updated online. I've got the same issue - reassessed a year ago and still not updated.
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
I see that, and raise you....
Next door elderly neighbour passed away and their small unextended mid-terraced 2 level three bedroom house got sold to a property
developer. It was a wreak, not updated since the seventies.
So after 4 months of stress and noise, their builders finished adding a
rear ground floor extension and a 3rd level loft extension. We've got
party wall damage in our loft; where they put in an RSJ on their side,
which they need to fix... Grrrrr...
Oh, I though this would be sufficient luxurious space for a high tech
modern family. We'd be getting new neighbours. Such fun!
Seems it's now well insulated. Their electricians were in happily
stringing orange network cable all around the place, the painters were
busy painting - all things grey, and the outside a rather unimaginative white. Not sure where their sewer vent pipe goes, it's missing?
I took a quick peep in one day (invited when someone (not them) blocked
the drains), and surprisingly I saw many rooms subdivided, even the extension. Nothing like the official plans we'd had from the council.
A bit too grey I thought. Even darker grey wood framing. At night there
is visible green glow above the front door, the tell tale position of a
fire exit luminaire.
An office, a dentist? Commercial space?
Then I spotted on the front door SIX door bell pushes.
Ah, it's an AirBnB...
I predict these conversions are going to spread like wildfire around
here, given local London pricing makes purchases more amenable for
businesses than families....
Building Control don't police adherence to the plans.
Not their department.
They only inspect the works to confirm that they conform to the current regulations.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 10:41:29 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/03/2025 20:22, Timatmarford wrote:
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed
dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Sales agent says it has been signed off by building control!
Is that possible?
I see that, and raise you....
Next door elderly neighbour passed away and their small unextended
mid-terraced 2 level three bedroom house got sold to a property
developer. It was a wreak, not updated since the seventies.
So after 4 months of stress and noise, their builders finished adding a
rear ground floor extension and a 3rd level loft extension. We've got
party wall damage in our loft; where they put in an RSJ on their side,
which they need to fix... Grrrrr...
Oh, I though this would be sufficient luxurious space for a high tech
modern family. We'd be getting new neighbours. Such fun!
Seems it's now well insulated. Their electricians were in happily
stringing orange network cable all around the place, the painters were
busy painting - all things grey, and the outside a rather unimaginative
white. Not sure where their sewer vent pipe goes, it's missing?
I took a quick peep in one day (invited when someone (not them) blocked
the drains), and surprisingly I saw many rooms subdivided, even the
extension. Nothing like the official plans we'd had from the council.
A bit too grey I thought. Even darker grey wood framing. At night there
is visible green glow above the front door, the tell tale position of a
fire exit luminaire.
An office, a dentist? Commercial space?
Then I spotted on the front door SIX door bell pushes.
Ah, it's an AirBnB...
I predict these conversions are going to spread like wildfire around
here, given local London pricing makes purchases more amenable for
businesses than families....
There is no real overlap between Planning and Building Regs.
Inspections for Building Regs are also somewhat variable.
Our extension was given the final sign off without an inspection.
Paper work just turned up.
What is being described in the thread seems to be more of a planning issue. We couldn't get planning permission for our extension without an energy assessment and the plans had to have high insulation values.
If the plans submitted for planning permission haven't been followed then that it a planning issue, and should be referred to the planning
department.
Building Control don't police adherence to the plans.
Not their department.
They only inspect the works to confirm that they conform to the current regulations.
Detached garage next door has just been converted into a 2 bed dwelling.
EPC assessed at F!
Work has stopped on the detached double garage belonging to a detached
house opposite me but before it did I saw that a connection was made
to the sewe, studwork was put in down one side which created a very
narrow space to one side of it and work had started on underfloor
heating - i haven't seen the screed being laid but doesn't mean that
it hasn't been.
I wondered if they were waiting for a fancy glazing/door panel to come
from somewhere exotic or they had run out of money. Last year a lot of
money was spent on the house, which is occupied. Still interested to
know if the garage works, when completed, are intended to create a
home office or habitation.
Timatmarford <tim@demon.co.uk> wrote:Snip
OK all.
My daughter is house hunting and having family next door rather than
strangers is attractive, but not at £600k for a 1.5 bed dwelling!
Indeed, I thought that was nuts! Perhaps you could convert one of your outbuildings instead?
OK all.
I think I have grasped the variables:-)
It seems likely the design met the regs. and if fully implemented would
have achieved the EPC level mentioned by the sales agent.
Using fully electric heating may have impacted the rating given on
inspection together with some doubt about the quality of the exterior
glazing and an inability to confirm the actual level of installed
insulation.
My daughter is house hunting and having family next door rather than strangers is attractive, but not at £600k for a 1.5 bed dwelling!
I think what's happened here is the building has met the SAP assessment that's used for new builds - that does a full heat loss calculation, considered sources of heating, insulation etc. It'll have met the building regs in terms of passive measures - sufficient insulation, airtightness, kWh/m2 etc.
But the EPC uses a 'reduced data SAP' (RdSAP) which is designed to be done quickly and has a lot of 'sticking a finger in the air'. It seems the electric heat has pulled it down - it doesn't consider the solar or fancy offpeak tariff (and suggests a wind turbine FFS). This is likely to be a problem should the purchaser wish to rent it out.
It seems like EPCs use the cost per kWh of heat output (electricity = 4x
gas) rather than the cost per kWh of electricity input (ASHP kWh = 1/4 gas kWh) so ASHPs get you a worse EPC score: https://www.greenservicesdirect.co.uk/how-installing-low-carbon-heat-pump-can-downgrade-your-epc-rating
I'd guess that using the offpeak tariff is similarly affected.
Just goes to show how useless EPCs are...
I hear UFH in a garage is much appreciated whenBLISS!
tinkering with cars and freezing your bits off in the winter. Similarly a toilet and kettle.
Although one of those would likely have a 2/4 post lift in it, and you'd probably have noticed that.
What is being described in the thread seems to be more of a planning issue. We couldn't get planning permission for our extension without an energy assessment and the plans had to have high insulation values.
If the plans submitted for planning permission haven't been followed then that it a planning issue, and should be referred to the planningYes, but that normally only applies to things not built to the submitted
department.
Building Control don't police adherence to the plans.
Not their department.
They only inspect the works to confirm that they conform to the current regulations.
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