Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp, what
do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off in August, which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the
drawing board.

--
Tim

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On 25 Apr 2025 13:28:50 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp,
what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off
in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the drawing board.

Are you sure though? I had a similar message about a year ago and it
turned out it wasn't true. It's still going (from RWG Mobile) and I
haven't hear otherwise.

If it is, you can switch from Giffgaff. RWG supplies a year's worth of essentially unlimited calls and texts for £30. Unlimited by my standards anyway.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

On 25/04/2025 14:28, Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp, what
do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the drawing board.

Buy one of these. £117

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorola-Moto-G35-Grey-128GB/dp/B0DDLD56YC/261-7948439-1369318?psc=1

Or the HMD 2660 Flip or its predecessor the Nokia 2660 Flip. About
£60-80. https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/comments/1jjknlu/hmd_2660_vs_nokia_2660_first_impressions/

When buying a dumbphone it's worth checking they support VoLTE, ie voice
calls over 4G. Many older 4G phones drop back to 3G or 2G for voice calls, which means they won't be able to call when the 2G/3G networks go away.

Theo

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On 25/04/2025 14:28, Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp, what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the drawing board.

Buy one of these. £117

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorola-Moto-G35-Grey-128GB/dp/B0DDLD56YC/261-7948439-1369318?psc=1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 25/04/2025 15:19, Handsome Jack wrote:

On 25 Apr 2025 13:28:50 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp,
what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off
in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the
drawing board.

Are you sure though? I had a similar message about a year ago and it
turned out it wasn't true. It's still going (from RWG Mobile) and I
haven't hear otherwise.

It's happening! See https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/coverage-and-speeds/3g-switch-off

If it is, you can switch from Giffgaff. RWG supplies a year's worth of essentially unlimited calls and texts for £30. Unlimited by my standards anyway.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 25 Apr 2025 at 17:17:21 BST, "Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Handsome Jack wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp,
what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off >>> in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the
drawing board.

Are you sure though? I had a similar message about a year ago and it
turned out it wasn't true.

O2 (as used by giffgaff) are the last-man standing, as far as 3G in the
UK is concerned, so believe it ...

<https://www.o2.co.uk/help/network-and-international/network-and-coverage/3g-switch-off>

This is what they said:

Hello Tim,
Sorry, we recently sent you an email missing the key info. We've fixed the issue and have included everything you need to know below.
All UK mobile networks are switching off their 3G networks – and that includes
us.
3G is switching off in your area from August. We’ll be in touch nearer the time to let you know exactly when.
Your phone doesn’t support the newer 4G network, so you’ll need to upgrade to
a compatible phone to carry on using mobile data for accessing the internet
and apps like WhatsApp. Limited 2G will still be available for voice calls and texts from your current phone.
Why is this happening?
In agreement with the UK government, 3G is shutting down to make room for faster, more reliable and more energy efficient 4G and 5G networks. This
change will help giffgaff deliver quicker downloads and higher quality calls for members.

--
Tim

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Handsome Jack wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp,
what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off
in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the
drawing board.

Are you sure though? I had a similar message about a year ago and it
turned out it wasn't true.

O2 (as used by giffgaff) are the last-man standing, as far as 3G in the
UK is concerned, so believe it ...

<https://www.o2.co.uk/help/network-and-international/network-and-coverage/3g-switch-off>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 25 Apr 2025 16:21:30 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

On 25 Apr 2025 at 17:17:21 BST, "Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

Handsome Jack wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for
WhatsApp, what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is
being turned off in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to
the drawing board.

Are you sure though? I had a similar message about a year ago and it
turned out it wasn't true.

O2 (as used by giffgaff) are the last-man standing, as far as 3G in the
UK is concerned, so believe it ...

<https://www.o2.co.uk/help/network-and-international/network-and- coverage/3g-switch-off>

This is what they said:

Hello Tim,
Sorry, we recently sent you an email missing the key info. We've fixed
the issue and have included everything you need to know below.
All UK mobile networks are switching off their 3G networks – and that includes us.
3G is switching off in your area from August. We’ll be in touch nearer
the time to let you know exactly when.
Your phone doesn’t support the newer 4G network, so you’ll need to upgrade to a compatible phone to carry on using mobile data for
accessing the internet and apps like WhatsApp. Limited 2G will still be available for voice calls and texts from your current phone.
Why is this happening?
In agreement with the UK government, 3G is shutting down to make room
for faster, more reliable and more energy efficient 4G and 5G networks.
This change will help giffgaff deliver quicker downloads and higher
quality calls for members.

Yes - I remember now - the point is that 2G is going to continue for a few years yet, so voice and texts are OK. That suits me, in fact I don't even
know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

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On 26/04/2025 08:27, Handsome Jack wrote:

in fact I don't even
know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

IP packets over the mobile network.

I.e. mobile phone for internet access.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

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On 26/04/2025 08:27, Handsome Jack wrote:

Yes - I remember now - the point is that 2G is going to continue for a few years yet, so voice and texts are OK. That suits me, in fact I don't even know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

Yes but no but....

There will be "some" 2G. But network providers will provide the absolute
bare minimum 2G coverage as they want the frequencies for 4G/5G. This
means few 2G handsets can make voice calls at the same time.

e.g. I have an older phone that only does 4G voice calling with specific providers. It happens to have a PAYG SIM so I can use it occasionally.
That SIM setup cannot do 4G voice so the phone would normally drop down
to 3G voice and work fine. But there's no 3G around here any more. So
75% of the time you try to make or receive a voice call to the phone and
it wont work because the few 2G voice slots are all in use.

It will remain functional for some time to come but it wont be very
reliable.

By all means, continue to cut off your nose to spite your face and save
a pfennig or two.

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On 26/04/2025 13:08, mm0fmf wrote:

On 26/04/2025 08:27, Handsome Jack wrote:

Yes - I remember now - the point is that 2G is going to continue for a
few
years yet, so voice and texts are OK. That suits me, in fact I don't even
know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

Yes but no but....

There will be "some" 2G. But network providers will provide the absolute
bare minimum 2G coverage as they want the frequencies for 4G/5G. This
means few 2G handsets can make voice calls at the same time.

Yes but no but there are very few 2G only phones left to share the
spectrum space with.

e.g. I have an older phone that only does 4G voice calling with specific providers. It happens to have a PAYG SIM so I can use it occasionally.
That SIM setup cannot do 4G voice so the phone would normally drop down
to 3G voice and work fine. But there's no 3G around here any more. So
75% of the time you try to make or receive a voice call to the phone and
it wont work because the few 2G voice slots are all in use.

Why would they be?

It will remain functional for some time to come but it wont be very
reliable.

By all means, continue to cut off your nose to spite your face and save
a pfennig or two.

No point in doing what you don't have to do.

--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

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On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:08:59 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:

On 26/04/2025 08:27, Handsome Jack wrote:

Yes - I remember now - the point is that 2G is going to continue for a
few years yet, so voice and texts are OK. That suits me, in fact I
don't even know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

Yes but no but....

There will be "some" 2G. But network providers will provide the absolute
bare minimum 2G coverage as they want the frequencies for 4G/5G. This
means few 2G handsets can make voice calls at the same time.

e.g. I have an older phone that only does 4G voice calling with specific providers. It happens to have a PAYG SIM so I can use it occasionally.
That SIM setup cannot do 4G voice so the phone would normally drop down
to 3G voice and work fine. But there's no 3G around here any more. So
75% of the time you try to make or receive a voice call to the phone and
it wont work because the few 2G voice slots are all in use.

Hmm. Where does the 75% figure come from?

It will remain functional for some time to come but it wont be very
reliable.

By all means, continue to cut off your nose to spite your face and save
a pfennig or two.

How much have you spent annually on your phone over the past few years,
taking *everything* into account?

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On 26/04/2025 13:35, Handsome Jack wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:08:59 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:

On 26/04/2025 08:27, Handsome Jack wrote:

Yes - I remember now - the point is that 2G is going to continue for a
few years yet, so voice and texts are OK. That suits me, in fact I
don't even know what 3G and all that other stuff is.

Yes but no but....

There will be "some" 2G. But network providers will provide the absolute
bare minimum 2G coverage as they want the frequencies for 4G/5G. This
means few 2G handsets can make voice calls at the same time.

e.g. I have an older phone that only does 4G voice calling with specific
providers. It happens to have a PAYG SIM so I can use it occasionally.
That SIM setup cannot do 4G voice so the phone would normally drop down
to 3G voice and work fine. But there's no 3G around here any more. So
75% of the time you try to make or receive a voice call to the phone and
it wont work because the few 2G voice slots are all in use.

Hmm. Where does the 75% figure come from?

It will remain functional for some time to come but it wont be very
reliable.

By all means, continue to cut off your nose to spite your face and save
a pfennig or two.

How much have you spent annually on your phone over the past few years, taking *everything* into account?

I think I have averaged about 30 quid a year plus original £200 cost,
£75 for a
new screen and £60 for a new battery..,and it was bought in 2017. So an annualised cost of £335 divided by 8 plus £30...£71 a year.

I've paid for tomtom GO at a bit more - I think its £50 a year.

I would upgrade the phone but the new ones are all too big.

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

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On 25/04/2025 14:28, Tim Streater wrote:

Just when I've got my clamshell set up and the old iPhone for WhatsApp, what do I get from GiffGaff today? A message that 3G is being turned off in August,
which will turn the clamshell into a brick (basically). So, back to the drawing board.

Surely it has 2G (GSM)? They won't be turning that off any time soon, as
it is used for lots of other things, like smart meters in the south of
Britain.

--
Max Demian

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On 26/04/2025 13:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes but no but there are very few 2G only phones left to share the
spectrum space with.

There would be few 2G only phones still in use.

But there's a metric shedload of 4G non-Volte (i.e. 3G voice) that use
3G for voice and now cannot get 3G so have to drop to 2G for voice calls.

Then there's all the 3G phones that have to drop to 2G to make voice calls.

So the number of possible phones needing a 2G voice connection suddenly
rises whilst the 2G capacity of any cells has been reduced.

More competition for fewer resources means there will much greater
chance you will not be able to always make a call on such phones.

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On 26/04/2025 13:35, Handsome Jack wrote:

How much have you spent annually on your phone over the past few years, taking*everything* into account?

New phone bought Dec 2023. Previous phone bought in Nov 2018 but the
battery was not lasting well any more. I could get a new battery fitted
for £45, the phone is a bugger to take apart as it is glued together and
you need heat guns etc. to soften the glue to take the case apart and to
remove the old battery. I could buy a battery and some new glue patches
and do it myself. Having bought replacement 3rd party batteries before
they often come pre-buggered so they don't get worse in use.

That phone would support Wifi Calling/4G voice (VOLTE) only on one UK
network (EE but not Three for example). So spending money for a new
battery to only get 4G voice on limited networks wasn't sensible. You
were limited to having to use EE because all other UK networks would not support 4G voice. It would do 4G data but on other networks the phone
switches to 3G to make voice calls and 3G was going the way of the Dodo. There's limited capacity for 2G calls. Standard operation mode for older
phones that don't have 4G voice.

New phone was £139. Better screen, battery that works, dual band Wifi,
5G, dual SIM, supports Volte on all UK networks, lots of memory yada, yada.

Contract is £13.50/mth for infinite minutes, infinite texts, 25GB data
plus whatever was left from previous months data rolled over.

(No landline any more, lots of voice calls get made)

2023: £162 for airtime, £139 for phone. £301 total
2024: £162 for airtime.
2025: £67.50 for airtime.

Today I've sent 3 texts and made 24mins of voice calls. No data, it's
using Wifi and I've not been out.

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On 26/04/2025 17:38, mm0fmf wrote:

On 26/04/2025 13:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes but no but there are very few 2G only phones left to share the
spectrum space with.

There would be few 2G only phones still in use.

There are other things besides phones which use 2G.

Cheap GPS trackers use 2G communicate with the owners.

At least one remote control system, similar to Hive, used in Caravans
and Motorhomes uses 2G.

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